The Nationals currently sit 14.5 games back in the NL East and 7.5 games back in the Wildcard.

Strasburg's stats from this year and last:
2013
W/L 5-9
ERA 3.01
WHIP 1.07

2012
W/L 15-6
ERA 3.16
WHIP 1.155

So far he has pitched in 6 less games and 12 less innings than all of last year. You can look it up if you want, but all his stats are pretty much the same from last year minus his record. Even all the new formulas of stats and stats I'm not even familiar with.

Reference: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/strasst01.shtml

It's pretty clear that the Nationals are a very long shot at making the playoffs and most likely won't make it. The Nationals may make the playoffs this year or before Strasburg leaves. I realize hindsight is 20/20. But, at this point, it looks like Nationals management made a HUGE mistake pulling him from the playoff race last year.

After the season he had, Gio would have started Game 1 whether Stras pitched or not.

In hindsight, the Nats won game 2, didn't score in game 3, and won game 4. Lost game 5 when Drew Storen gives up 4 runs and blows the save.

Whatcha gonna do?

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 8/6/2013 9:36p).]

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Whatcha gonna do?

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As a GM I am going to do everything in my power to make sure I have the absolutely best team on the field in order to win a World Series....especially when they had a decent chance. Strasburg was healthy and ready.

Momentum also affects the offense. I am not making excuses for the batters, but I imagine not having their ace* available is pretty frustrating.

*I realize Gio was their ace last year but I'm guessing they still would have started the series with Strasburg if available.

I was thinking about starting the same thread.

I know last year, my reply on the Strasburg thread was that you play to win now, not next year. You never know how the next season will play out.

I'm going to take an 'I told you so' too on this one. Horrible decision to sit him last year and assume that the Nationals would be back in the playoffs again the following year. Good chance Davey and/or the GM are going to be fired because of it.

it was also a slap in the face to the Braves in thinking they (Nats) could automatically win the division again next year (2013), so that the Nats were okay with an early playoff exit in 2012. No big deal, we'll be right back there in 2013. Oops

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Horrible decision to sit him last year and assume that the Nationals would be back in the playoffs again the following year.

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WHy is only the following year to be taken into account when the point of holding him out was to hopefully maximize his chances of pitching years down the road?

No one was assuming a Nats win in 2013. Strasburg still has at least 3 seasons in the District, and the move was made to help insure his health this season, those seasons, and beyond.

Davey Johnson made the decision last November that this would be his last year as manager. Good manager, good Aggie, but he's 70 years old.

As for Rizzo, we'll see. The team was a 59 game winner when he took over. He got promoted to team president after the playoff loss.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 8/7/2013 12:30p).]

Thread from last year FWIW: http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=53&topic_id=2166440

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WHy is only the following year to be taken into account when the point of holding him out was to hopefully maximize his chances of pitching years down the road?

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This

The Nats made a huge financial commitment to Strasburg to be their ace, both today and years to come. They absolutely could not risk long term injury for one year of success. It's easy to look back and say they made a huge mistake, but being responsible and cautious with your staff ace is not a mistake, IMO

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I'm going to take an 'I told you so' too on this one.

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Is it really an "I told you so" when you wait until after they lost in the playoffs to criticize it?

My argument, which I made when they actually shut him down , was that it was stupid for it to have gotten into an either/or situation. Shorten some outings, skip a few starts in spots along the way while conditioning on the side, etc..

That said, I agree that it's not entirely fair to evaluate after just one following season and I'm not sure it really mattered anyway last year.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 8/8/2013 2:54p).]

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My argument, which I made when they actually shut him down , was that it was stupid for it to have gotten into an either/or situation. Shorten some outings, skip a few starts in spots along the way while conditioning on the side, etc..

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I've obviously been the primary "defender" of it, but there is a thread out there somewhere, from earlier in the year I think, where I and others went into more depth on how they could have stretched him out.

And maybe that thread is where W told us all.

At least they made the playoffs this year.

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Yeah -- Washington basically now has 3 years (what they have left of Strasburg control) to make a deep playoff run or that decision is going to go down in the books as one of the worst "long-sighted" decisions in MLB history.

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2 years left now.

Do you draft an ace with the goal of consistently make the playoffs, or do you draft an ace so that you can win a World Series (helped by consistently making the playoffs)?

I'm sure the team that signs Strasburg in free agency after the 2016 season will be thankful the Nats held him back.

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At least they made the playoffs this year.

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Yep.

Strasburg is given the most starts in the league, the Nationals win their division, and they still get wiped in the first round by scores of 3-2, 2-1 (In 18 innings! They scored once in 18 innings!), and 3-2 (Strasburg started that game).

Another noticeable "still" is that Strasburg still pitched like the 3rd or 4th best guy in their starting rotation.

I don't think, or at least I hope not, that anyone is saying they necessarily would have made, yet alone won, a World Series in 2012 had Strasburg (who, on that team's rotation, was 3rd in ERA, 3rd in ERA+, and 2nd in WHIP) but I feel like people operate(d) with a borderline assumption they make a deeper run if he's not left off the team.

It still just seems like a lot of hubbub over a team's ~3rd best starter (Strasburg is certainly an excellent pitcher, but Washington has and has had an extremely deep rotation) that had a sometimes painfully anemic offense. (Remember when the lost Game 3, a game Strasburg would have at least a 50/50 chance of starting, 8-0?)

You decide against pitching your all-star pitcher who would have qualified for Top 10 ERA in the league with a few more games to keep him healthy for the long-haul.

2 out of your 3 losses in that game series were due to bad starting pitching.

Do we know if Strasburg would have pitched well? No.

Do we know if Washington had won the NLDS that they would have made/won the World Series? Of course not.

But the front office decide to rest one of their best weapons in a year that it's very likely they would have at least made the NLCS in an attempt to "keep him healthy" for future years.... And so far in those future years they haven't been as close as they were in 2012.

So, yeah... Unless Washington makes at least the NLCS in the next 2 seasons due to Strasburg the decision was a colossally poor one.

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You decide against pitching your all-star pitcher who would have qualified for Top 10 ERA in the league with a few more games to keep him healthy for the long-haul.

2 out of your 3 losses in that game series were due to bad starting pitching.

Do we know if Strasburg would have pitched well? No.

Do we know if Washington had won the NLDS that they would have made/won the World Series? Of course not.

But the front office decide to rest one of their best weapons in a year that it's very likely they would have at least made the NLCS in an attempt to "keep him healthy" for future years.... And so far in those future years they haven't been as close as they were in 2012.

So, yeah... Unless Washington makes at least the NLCS in the next 2 seasons due to Strasburg the decision was a colossally poor one.

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Closer by 1 game, I guess, They also lost their 3 games this year by 1 run each- they score just another run somewhere between from inning 4 to inning 17 in Game 2 this year and they're in another 5 game series.

In 2012, which losses are you referring too?

Game 2? Started Jordan Zimmerman, who had a 2.94 ERA. That was a lower ERA than he had in 2013 and 2014 when he was an All-Star. Yes, he gave up 5 ERs in 3 innings. They lost 12-4, as their bullpen **** the bed, too. I can give you that, but Zimmerman probably still pitches in Game 2 if Strasburg is on the squad, and Zimmerman certainly is their starting pitcher by Game 3.

Game 5? Gio Gonzalez was an All-Star, 3rd in Cy Young voting pitching on normal rest. He gave up 3 runs in 5 innings. Washington carries a 7-5 lead into the 9th inning when Drew Stroren gives up 4 runs and blows a save.

Game 3? Aye, perhaps that's the rub. Edwin Jackson gave up 4 ERs in 5 innings. Washington did not score a run that game, and their bullpen proceeded to give 4 runs in 4 innings.

I certainly see both sides, and I think there are fair critiques as I said back in that old thread, but the reaction continues to just seem like a lot to me when there were so many other variables that went horribly wrong for Washington, and we don't know how Strasburg would have finished that season, performed in the post-season, or how sitting him vs not sitting him that year has and will effect how he pitches* the rest of his time in Washington (and beyond).


* Is it worth noting that come September of 2013 when Washington made the decision to let him finish the season, Strasburg starting having elbow problems and missed half of the month?

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You decide against pitching your all-star pitcher who would have qualified for Top 10 ERA in the league with a few more games to keep him healthy for the long-haul.

2 out of your 3 losses in that game series were due to bad starting pitching.

Do we know if Strasburg would have pitched well? No.

Do we know if Washington had won the NLDS that they would have made/won the World Series? Of course not.

But the front office decide to rest one of their best weapons in a year that it's very likely they would have at least made the NLCS in an attempt to "keep him healthy" for future years.... And so far in those future years they haven't been as close as they were in 2012.

So, yeah... Unless Washington makes at least the NLCS in the next 2 seasons due to Strasburg the decision was a colossally poor one.

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This.

Both sides can play the what if game. But if the Nats don't win it all with him there the decision will deemed a failure.

Did Strasburg or Strasburg's agent have any say in it?

For Strasburg it was a 100 million dollar decision. Look at Mark Prior and Kerry Wood. Neither every truly recovered from the abuse in 2003.

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Closer by 1 game, I guess,

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Normally I'd side with you that 1 game doesn't make or break a season...

But you need 3 wins to advance from the Division Series.

Being "closer by 1 game" means the world.

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Did Strasburg or Strasburg's agent have any say in it?

For Strasburg it was a 100 million dollar decision. Look at Mark Prior and Kerry Wood. Neither every truly recovered from the abuse in 2003.

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I'm sure they had a say, but if they were on the side of resting him they kept it somewhat quiet from the media -- everything I remember was that it was a coaching/front-office decision.

I'm absolutely agreeing they were closer and that one game can mean "everything", I was just adding that if they don't have one of the most inept offensive performances in major league post-season history they're playing a game 5 or maybe have the series locked up beforehand.

As for the agent and Stras' public silence, Boras did have some things to say in a few interviews. I think generally they have little to nothing to gain from saying anything publically whether they agreed, disagreed, or were somewhere in between.

Bump

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Bump

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I don't follow much outside of the AL west. This guy still playing?

How much say does an agent really have? Seems like guaranteed money would be the player's agreement to let management use their asset however they darn well please. Has a pitcher sued an organization over arm abuse? I could easily see pitch counts and appearances written into future contracts.

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How much say does an agent really have? Seems like guaranteed money would be the player's agreement to let management use their asset however they darn well please. Has a pitcher sued an organization over arm abuse? I could easily see pitch counts and appearances written into future contracts.

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Nolan Ryan's head might explode

Baseball's first million dollar player might take exception to an athlete trying to maximize his monetary value?

6 years ago

6 years ago, and has spent the last 4 struggling to crack 150 innings and 25 starts in a season (only 1 out of the past 4 years, which was a whopping 28 starts and 175 innings in 2017).

But he stayed healthy long enough to get the 7 year, $175 mill deal with 2 chances to opt out.

Yeah, safe to say Washington wish they had that decision back. Gave up their best shot at a WS to protect an investment but never get any closer.

And they still havent even gotten out of the NLDS.

ttt

I forgot how terrible of a decision this still was

Oh, hi there

Old Tom Morris said:

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ttt

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Great thread revive! Lotta terrible takes in this one

They could've had two World Series by now

Fail