NBA Finals

50,798 Views | 844 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Saint Pablo
leftcoastaggie
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Bunk Moreland said:

Quote:

You and those clapping Raptors fans can all celebrate now. Congrats.

FFS get over it. Those fans had no idea he ruptured his achilles. For all they knew he just re-aggravated the 'calf' injury. They got caught up in the moment realizing what ultimately KD being out meant as it pertained to the series, and within 10 seconds was quieted down by their own players.

Not only that, it wasn't like the arena erupted about the injury. Guys courtside and a small flurry of cheers.

What an overreaction.


Trash

https://instagr.am/p/Byj0wJ6F-34
FriscoKid
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Sports-Ag said:

SportsCenter zooms in and slows it down when Durant hurt his leg. Click on the video to see.




IDK why I choose to watch these injuries. I usually regret it.
s13fenton
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Draymond in his current form being a team's third best scorer is not good. He would be behind Kawhi, Siakam, Gasol, Lowry, Ibaka, and Van Fleet in terms of offensive threat for the Raptors.
Pumpkinhead
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s13fenton said:

This is not a relevant take anymore. Yes the warriors still have 4 all stars but Cousins is a SHELL of himself and Draymond offensively is not what he was during '15-'17. The Raptors roster is significantly better all around, they legit have 7 guys who are consistently a threat to score. The Warriors have 2.

Every key player on the Raptors outside of Van Fleet and Siakam has major playoff experience, so as a team yes the Raptors are inexperienced in this situation, but as a roster they were probably second to GSW for overall big time game experience (Kawhi, Green- 2 finals runs, 2 conference finals runs, Gasol- Several Conference finals runs, Lowry- every year vs Lebron, Ibaka- One finals and several conference finals runs). That is what makes this series so awesome is this is the first time in the finals the Warriors are outmatched.
Marc Gasol is a much better player than Cousins right now - or any of Golden State's bigs. Cousins is only an 'All-Star' on paper.

Without Durant, this matchup has been between Kawhi+Siakam+Lowry+Gasol+deeper Raptors bench (Ibaka, Van Fleet, etc.) vs Curry+Klay+Green+aging Iggy/Livington and pupu platter of 'maybe okay on some particular day to possibly unplayable' bigs like Cousins/Looney/Bogut. And that has been an extremely competitive street fight which oddly has seen the road team win 4 out of the 5 games.

Folks who want 'competitive balance' have got what they want in this NBA Finals. In fact, when you look at how all the matchups have played out in the first 5 games, the Raptors appear to have a bit of an edge.
Pumpkinhead
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s13fenton
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This is what I'm trying to say, people who say the Warriors have 4 all stars left are correct, but trying to use that as justification that their roster is better than the Raptors in its current form is silly.
Gigemags382
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So if Durant now exercises his option to stay with the Warriors next year, how much cap room do they have? Can they still keep Curry, Klay, and Draymond? If so, how much room do they have beyond that?

Crazy thing is this could result in the Warriors getting another playoff run with Durant. He should be back by next year's playoffs, but obviously no one knows what impact this will have on his playing ability.
CFTXAG10
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Just my opinion, but if Durant truly wants to go to New York, the Knicks are not in a position to pass on signing him now to a max deal. You take him every day of the week, even if it means he sits for most of year one. Too much can change over the course of a year.
Pumpkinhead
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https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/6/11/18661098/kevin-durant-achilles-injury-warriors-knicks-clippers-free-agency-nba-finals-raptors


Quote:

The loss of KD for the foreseeable future has ramifications on the Finalsbut looking beyond that, it could be one of the most significant injuries in NBA history
Grapesoda2525
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CFTXAG10 said:

Just my opinion, but if Durant truly wants to go to New York, the Knicks are not in a position to pass on signing him now to a max deal. You take him every day of the week, even if it means he sits for most of year one. Too much can change over the course of a year.
I agree with this. Teams are still going to throw max deals at Durant because he's a future hall of famer. The ideal outcome is the raptors win 1 of the next 2 games, that helps the raptors keep Leonard for another year or two, and Durant leaves for New York to start work on building his legacy. The warriors will always be curry's team and Durant will never be the main guy in the Bay Area. A player of his caliber should be "the guy" somewhere.

The above result would also be good because it helps the balance of power. I'm sick of teams in the western conference needing to win 50 games to make the playoffs while teams in the Eastern conference make the playoffs with .500 or losing records. It's past time for the east to get stronger, or at least quit being so pathetically weak. It's not good for the NBA.
Pumpkinhead
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A lot of folks seem to think good chance that Kawhi is going to Clippers this summer. Toronto's title window may just be this one single year (down to the next 2 games).

Also the East with Toronto, Sixers, and Milwaukee this season was definitely stronger in terms of all three of those teams had a legit chance to be in the NBA Finals. Milwaukee was the best team in the NBA during the regular season and Toronto needed a buzzer beating 4 rim bounce shot from Kawhi in a Game 7 to get past the Sixers. I'm not sure you'll ever get much more 'competitive balance' than 3 or 4 legit contenders in a particular conference in any given year...the NBA historically has always been a top-heavy league.
Saint Pablo
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Toronto went 8-32 from three while GS shot 47.5% from behind the arc and Toronto still only lost by 1. I don't think either of those numbers are as good or bad next game.
Pumpkinhead
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Saint Pablo said:

Toronto went 8-32 from three while GS shot 47.5% from behind the arc and Toronto still only lost by 1. I don't think either of those numbers are as good or bad next game.
There is the emotional factor...a strange deal...apparently the Warriors locker room atmosphere was very solemn last night after the game as though they'd lost instead of won. Will also be the last ever Warriors game played in Oracle Arena coming up and the atmosphere will presumably be insane.

But the home team in this series has lost 4 out of the 5 games.

And if the Warriors do manage to survive Game 6, would you bet against them in Game 7 given that they have already won the last two games in Toronto (mostly without Durant) Game 2 and Game 5?

Wildcard Game 6 - Gambling odds that Draymond Green gets a technical and earns a Game 7 suspension (if played).
Grapesoda2525
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Saint Pablo said:

Toronto went 8-32 from three while GS shot 47.5% from behind the arc and Toronto still only lost by 1. I don't think either of those numbers are as good or bad next game.
The raptors role players seem to play better in Oakland for some strange reason.
CFTXAG10
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Saint Pablo said:

Toronto went 8-32 from three while GS shot 47.5% from behind the arc and Toronto still only lost by 1. I don't think either of those numbers are as good or bad next game.
Toronto kept it close by scoring in the paint and drawing fouls. They shot almost double the amount of free throws than the Warriors, and outscored them by 22 in the paint.
Saint Pablo
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Grapesoda2525 said:

Saint Pablo said:

Toronto went 8-32 from three while GS shot 47.5% from behind the arc and Toronto still only lost by 1. I don't think either of those numbers are as good or bad next game.
The raptors role players seem to play better in Oakland for some strange reason.
Really bizarre that the home team has only won one game in this series.
Grapesoda2525
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CFTXAG10 said:

Saint Pablo said:

Toronto went 8-32 from three while GS shot 47.5% from behind the arc and Toronto still only lost by 1. I don't think either of those numbers are as good or bad next game.
Toronto kept it close by scoring in the paint and drawing fouls. They shot almost double the amount of free throws than the Warriors, and outscored them by 22 in the paint.
Warriors shot over 50% from 3 point land. Not sustainable at all, especially without KD going forward.
GrayMatter
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There's no reason that GS is just gonna give up and be happy going back to Oracle. This time of the year, experience trumps many things which is why the Warriors won. All of their personnel (players + coaches) outside of Kawhi were afraid of the moment last night.

The Raptors has just found out how hard it is to close out a team and they screwed up big time because they gave the Warriors a lot of confidence and momentum going into Game 6 at Oracle.
The conversations will be uncomfortable, but we all have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable for progress to be made.
jeffdjohnson
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Junkhead said:

Are people criticizing KD for playing tonight? He was medically cleared and it was a do or die game for his team. He would have been DESTROYED by you idiots had he NOT played after being cleared. He would have been called selfish and weak minded. Ridiculous.


It doesn't seem like a coincidence that KD happened to be cleared right when they go down 3-1 in the series. I don't think any one person is at fault but I do think the team doctors/GM were complicit. They wanted KD out there as much as KD wanted to be out there.

I think it is the team doctors responsibility to be the ones to say "no", but that is a tough ask. This is a billion dollar sport, fans aren't paying to watch the doctor. This problem isn't unique to the NBA, we see guys with concussions in the NFL run back onto the field all the time. Players want to compete. KD wanted to compete. Someone should have told him "no" and now it may have cost him his prime.
Pumpkinhead
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So if you are Warriors management, do you put that video of Raptor fans celebrating Durant going down on continuous loop in Golden State's locker room the next 48 hours?

https://instagr.am/p/Byj0wJ6F-34
GrayMatter
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Even if it was an achilles strain, those typically take at most 6 weeks to heal. Given that he was given treatment all day everyday for 33 days, I'd say that would be enough time for him to heal.

You can't blame him for playing because you never know if you're going to be back in the Finals.

I think his Achilles tear is as a result of his body overcompensating for an injury to that part of his leg. No way of knowing that was going to happen. Obviously, his leg was hurt in some manner and I think they (Warriors doctors/coaches) were being cautious, so there's no way they knew that was going to happen.

It was an unfortunate injury and I don't care what sport or what kind of injury a player has, you're quiet out of respect for the athlete. Imagine if an injury like that happened at Kyle Field or Reed, you could hear a pin drop. That was classless from the Toronto fans.
The conversations will be uncomfortable, but we all have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable for progress to be made.
GrayMatter
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Pumpkinhead said:

So if you are Warriors management, do you put that video of Raptor fans celebrating Durant going down on continuous loop in Golden State's locker room the next 48 hours?
Nah, they already have skins on the wall. They know what they have to do. They're a veteran ball club that has been in that position before albeit from the other end of a 3-1 deficit.

The video is more for the fans. I think they'll be even more amped up in this next game and they are gonna be hostile to the Raptors. I can't wait to see/hear their reaction.
The conversations will be uncomfortable, but we all have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable for progress to be made.
aggiederelict
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The original classification of calling it a mild calf strain was clearly not the case. This was more serious than they were letting on and everyone paid a huge price for him coming back on the lighter side of a grade 2 strain.

I treat a lot of calf issues in my clinic and they are very easy to reinjure. Same thing with hamstring injuries. So easy to tweak again even when you feel close to 100%. Very difficult when you play explosive sport.
Grapesoda2525
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GrayMatter said:

Pumpkinhead said:

So if you are Warriors management, do you put that video of Raptor fans celebrating Durant going down on continuous loop in Golden State's locker room the next 48 hours?
Nah, they already have skins on the wall. They know what they have to do. They're a veteran ball club that has been in that position before albeit from the other end of a 3-1 deficit.

The video is more for the fans. I think they'll be even more amped up in this next game and they are gonna be hostile to the Raptors. I can't wait to see/hear their reaction.
Can't get more hostile than it was last time. With idiot fans actually pushing raptors players.
CajunAg97
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In my experience, there's no such thing as luck.
Saint Pablo
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Draymond blocked his shot.
QBCade
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Grapesoda2525 said:

Saint Pablo said:

Toronto went 8-32 from three while GS shot 47.5% from behind the arc and Toronto still only lost by 1. I don't think either of those numbers are as good or bad next game.
The raptors role players seem to play better in Oakland for some strange reason.


Raptors got 11 more points from the FT line, that's how it was close. Otherwise, wouldn't have been close at all.
CajunAg97
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Saint Pablo said:

Draymond blocked his shot.
I know, but I still thought it was funny
In my experience, there's no such thing as luck.
CFTXAG10
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Looks like most books have GS -3 for Thursday

Also,

biobioprof
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Grapesoda2525 said:

Ags #1 said:

Not sure of the context of the question but he is pretty much correct. Nobody in America or Canada likes the warriors except the Bay Area.
Emphasis on nobody. The warriors have the Bay Area, Nevada ( gamblers like to make money off them), and Hawaii ( i'll just say similar demographics to the Bay Area).
I just thought it was amusing that he acknowledged it. I forget the question, but I think it might have been about the atmosphere in the arena.

I think there are scattered Warrior fans all over and that most people are more neutral than haters, especially if they are only casual NBA fans. It's like when the Cowboys were America's team. There are casual fans who are front runners everywhere.

YouGov polling is consistent with that. The descriptions by fans are amusing, though:

GS: https://today.yougov.com/topics/sports/explore/sports_team/Golden_State_Warriors

Quote:

Golden State Warriors is the 26th most popular sports team and the 60th most famous. Golden State Warriors is described by fans as: Hardworking, Exciting, Offensive, Creative and Powerful.
33% positive
13% negative
29% neutral

Rockets: https://today.yougov.com/topics/sports/explore/sports_team/Houston_Rockets
27% positive
10% negative
34% neutral
Quote:

Houston Rockets is the 70th most popular sports team and the 77th most famous. Houston Rockets is described by fans as: Undisciplined.
Spurs https://today.yougov.com/topics/sports/explore/sports_team/San_Antonio_Spurs
30% positive
11% negative
33% neutral
Quote:

San Antonio Spurs is the 44th most popular sports team and the 67th most famous. San Antonio Spurs is described by fans as: Disciplined, Strong, Skilled, Hardworking and Good in the clutch.

Percentages don't add up to 100% because it only includes respondents who have heard of them. I think the numbers for the three teams are well within the margin of error of each other. I only did those, there are more polls for teams and individual players at the site.
Seven Costanza
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Toronto just looks so much better, despite losing last night. This is absurd because GS is a dynasty with two of the best shooters ever that do this on a routine basis, but that game reminded me of a 13 seed beating a 4 seed. GS looked completely outclassed, but managed to get by with miracle shots.

Toronto probably wins big on Thursday.
Guitarsoup
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CFTXAG10 said:

Looks like most books have GS -3 for Thursday

Also,


Oh man. The last time a NBA Superstar flew to New York for a second opinion, he wasn't really hurt and sat out an entire season.
Pumpkinhead
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Good podcast from Bill Simmons and Ryen Rusillo last night right after the game, talking about Kawhi going full-Michael Jordan in the 4th but still coming up short and what an amazing player he is, appreciating that Golden State (love them or hate them) is one of the most mentally tough teams in all of sports - couldn't see any other NBA team this season gutting out a win like that, the public approval rating of the Toronto fanbase doing a nose dive in seconds on twitter, Nurse's inexplicable calling of a timeout with 3 minutes left when Raptors had all the momentum, the last minutes of the game where it seemed Boogie Cousins had turned 'mole' for the Raptors trying to sabotage a Warriors win - though they both thought the moving screen call by the Refs on Boogie in the last 30 seconds was a ridiculous call given the moment, whether anyone is to blame for what happened to Durant and what popping his Achilles might mean to his free agency, and a lot more.

https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2019/6/11/18661069/kevin-durant-injury-achilles-golden-state-warriors-game-5-ryen-russillo
Saint Pablo
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Love Bill Simmons' podcast. Just started listening towards the end of the NBA regular season and I really enjoy it.
Olsen
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Guitarsoup said:

CFTXAG10 said:

Looks like most books have GS -3 for Thursday

Also,


Oh man. The last time a NBA Superstar flew to New York for a second opinion, he wasn't really hurt and sat out an entire season.
KD and Kawhi have the same rehab doctor in New York?
 
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