Tx HS soccer may move to fall sport?

3,894 Views | 45 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Rudyjax
oh no
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UIL has soccer from Jan-Apr and have moving it to fall on the agenda. Girls implications - competing with club soccer and other fall sports like cross country and volleyball? Boys implications- do a lot of football teams lose their place kickers?

https://amp.star-telegram.com/sports/dfwvarsity/article262393242.html


jeffk
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My biggest concern would be field space. Most HS soccer teams play their varsity matches at the same venues the football team does.
bbry81
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I am not sure how this would work logistically. Games would have to change to Monday Wednesday. Practice only in morning. Not sure why they would want to do this.

The other thing they are discussing is freshmen not being allowed to be on varsity.
jeffk
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That's such a weird change to make. Not all schools field a full frosh-JV-varsity array of teams in all sports. I've coached at schools where we only had varsity teams for certain sports. What happens to freshmen in those situations? They just don't get to compete?
oh no
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The article I linked discusses freshmen on varsity, shot clock in basketball, and soccer moving to fall. Shot clock is the only one I'd agree with.
Rudyjax
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jeffk said:

My biggest concern would be field space. Most HS soccer teams play their varsity matches at the same venues the football team does.


This.
Ags-R-Better
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If the UIL talks to coaches as takes their input seriously, I don't see how this passes.

Competing with club soccer schedules? How many top line talents are going to choose school over club? I'm new in the club scene with my girls, but I hear a lot of conversations of other parents talking about whether or not their kid will even play for their school past sophomore year for recruiting purposes; if they make people choose between club and school, I don't think that will go well.

For the freshman thing, i wonder if that is a concern over player size. Where my kids will go to high school, the girl's varsity mvp was a freshman and she was first team all district (she plays for the Dash GA). I can understand the size concern, but skill wise the varsity coaches can't like this at all.

The positive would be less freezing soccer matches, which I am all for.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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This won't happen. They're just discussing it but there is not enough space to allow this to happen.
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Mathguy64
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It's on the table along with many other things. There is no chance this happens. Stadiums would be unavailable Thursday and Friday in every stadium and Saturday as well in many stadiums.

They already made a change for this upcoming season that IMHO will backfire. Traditionally the first day for real games (not scrimmages) had been Jan 2. This season it's Dec 29 and coaches everywhere are making schedules trying to line up games that day. So they are expecting full player squads to be available between Christmas and New Year and they are expecting referees and stadium staff as well. I have news for them. That's not happening.
Rudyjax
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Yeah. Most players choose club over high school.

And most high school coaches are relegated from another sport to coach soccer.

It's funny with my daughters team. The best 4 freshman players had different results. 1 was a starter leading goal scorer for a 5A team. 3 we're on JV2 for 3 different 6A schools that went far in playoffs.

High school means little.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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Ken Scarborough said:

Yeah. Most players choose club over high school.

And most high school coaches are relegated from another sport to coach soccer.

It's funny with my daughters team. The best 4 freshman players had different results. 1 was a starter leading goal scorer for a 5A team. 3 we're on JV2 for 3 different 6A schools that went far in playoffs.

High school means little.


That situation you are describing is becoming less and less common. Sure, clubs win out but most Hs coaches are now just soccer coaches and they tend to work with the clubs.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
jeffk
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Yeah, the state of HS soccer in texas continues to improve. Coaching is improving, facilities and equipment are better, quality of play is night and day difference to what is was early in the 2000s (some of this is definitely impacted by regionality). Loads of top end players will continue to choose club over HS soccer and I get it. But there's absolutely enough talent that choose to do both to make for some good matches.
Mathguy64
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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

Ken Scarborough said:

Yeah. Most players choose club over high school.

And most high school coaches are relegated from another sport to coach soccer.

It's funny with my daughters team. The best 4 freshman players had different results. 1 was a starter leading goal scorer for a 5A team. 3 we're on JV2 for 3 different 6A schools that went far in playoffs.

High school means little.


That situation you are describing is becoming less and less common. Sure, clubs win out but most Hs coaches are now just soccer coaches and they tend to work with the clubs.


IMHO that is absolutely not the case. At 6A schools it's more common but at 5A and 4A? Heck no farther than CS girls. Their longtime coach was also the football OC and he just took over the head coach position.

6A it's about 50/50. Most 5A coaches I know double up and every male coach I know doing girls is doubling up. Every 4A I know does.
jeffk
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Yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to find a HS head soccer coach in Texas that doesn't at least have a second sport assignment. Just no feasible from a staffing standpoint usually.
Aston94
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Mathguy64 said:

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

Ken Scarborough said:

Yeah. Most players choose club over high school.

And most high school coaches are relegated from another sport to coach soccer.

It's funny with my daughters team. The best 4 freshman players had different results. 1 was a starter leading goal scorer for a 5A team. 3 we're on JV2 for 3 different 6A schools that went far in playoffs.

High school means little.


That situation you are describing is becoming less and less common. Sure, clubs win out but most Hs coaches are now just soccer coaches and they tend to work with the clubs.


IMHO that is absolutely not the case. At 6A schools it's more common but at 5A and 4A? Heck no farther than CS girls. Their longtime coach was also the football OC and he just took over the head coach position.

6A it's about 50/50. Most 5A coaches I know double up and every male coach I know doing girls is doubling up. Every 4A I know does.
Most HS soccer coaches double up, but in our area (4A/5A schools west of DFW) most the coaches are "soccer first" coaches who also coach another sport (Cross country, football, volleyball). We are in a strong 4A soccer area, but the coaches at HS are becoming more and more qualified. Lot of the girls and boys in our area play select soccer so they can be better prepared for HS soccer.

Moving soccer to the fall would be a killer for the game. Hope it does not happen. Winter soccer is darn cold, but competing with select and football would really hurt the game.
PatAg
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High school soccer is absolutely a fun experience, and one that kids look forward to. But if you are forced to choose, and have a decent level of skill, you will be picking club soccer.
Being forced to no longer play with your friends at school would suck

What is their reasoning? It's cold for a month or two?
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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jeffk said:

Yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to find a HS head soccer coach in Texas that doesn't at least have a second sport assignment. Just no feasible from a staffing standpoint usually.


I'm in Katy ISD and every soccer coach is soccer only. It's not that difficult to do, it's just a decision.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
jeffk
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It's awesome that they do that but Katy ISD is not the norm here.
Mathguy64
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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

jeffk said:

Yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to find a HS head soccer coach in Texas that doesn't at least have a second sport assignment. Just no feasible from a staffing standpoint usually.


I'm in Katy ISD and every soccer coach is soccer only. It's not that difficult to do, it's just a decision.


KISD is the exception rather than the rule. Big wealthy districts ($$ and talent) in the DFW area are the same. But very much in the minority.
PatAg
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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

jeffk said:

Yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to find a HS head soccer coach in Texas that doesn't at least have a second sport assignment. Just no feasible from a staffing standpoint usually.


I'm in Katy ISD and every soccer coach is soccer only. It's not that difficult to do, it's just a decision.
They don't have any secondary duties, like working film for the football team?
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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PatAg said:

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

jeffk said:

Yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to find a HS head soccer coach in Texas that doesn't at least have a second sport assignment. Just no feasible from a staffing standpoint usually.


I'm in Katy ISD and every soccer coach is soccer only. It's not that difficult to do, it's just a decision.
They don't have any secondary duties, like working film for the football team?


None that I'm aware of, especially on the girls side. They just coach soccer. Film these days is much easier due to the Hudl system.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
TXAggie2011
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It's not necessarily even a money thing. Finding enough qualified coaches who can also teach what you need can be a challenge
TXAggie2011
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Mathguy64 said:

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

jeffk said:

Yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to find a HS head soccer coach in Texas that doesn't at least have a second sport assignment. Just no feasible from a staffing standpoint usually.


I'm in Katy ISD and every soccer coach is soccer only. It's not that difficult to do, it's just a decision.


KISD is the exception rather than the rule. Big wealthy districts ($$ and talent) in the DFW area are the same. But very much in the minority.


Yeah. I know Austin Westlake's head boys coach…he coaches kickers and punters on the football team. And they have plenty of money.
jeffk
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TXAggie2011 said:

It's not necessarily even a money thing. Finding enough qualified coaches who can also teach what you need can be a challenge


Exactly this. Schools with larger faculties have an easier time findings teachers who will pick up a single sport here or there. Smaller schools carry a lot fewer teachers and have to ask/require coaches to at least have two sport assignments (sometimes 3-4).
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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TXAggie2011 said:

Mathguy64 said:

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

jeffk said:

Yeah, you'd be hard-pressed to find a HS head soccer coach in Texas that doesn't at least have a second sport assignment. Just no feasible from a staffing standpoint usually.


I'm in Katy ISD and every soccer coach is soccer only. It's not that difficult to do, it's just a decision.


KISD is the exception rather than the rule. Big wealthy districts ($$ and talent) in the DFW area are the same. But very much in the minority.


Yeah. I know Austin Westlake's head boys coach…he coaches kickers and punters on the football team. And they have plenty of money.


That sort of proves my point. It sounds like this guy was hired to coach soccer and then helps out elsewhere. The post I responded to was basically saying soccer coaches were hired to coach something else and then they got stuck with soccer.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
gonzox
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Did anything come of this proposal to move it to fall?
jeffk
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Just today, yes. Refused action on all three changes and were very vocal in their disdain for the "no freshmen on varsity" rule.



Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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I wonder what the issue is with freshmen on varsity.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
oh no
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not sure if there are stats or studies that back it up, but I'm assuming it's a safety / injury prevention idea, especially for football, but the idea seems to disregard other sports and takes that decision away from the athletes, parents, and coaches, who should be capable of considering all the risks, rewards, pros and cons, and make their own decisions.
oh no
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My oldest would have been PO'd if soccer moved to fall. He loves and excels at both soccer and football. He would still have club and ODP soccer if school soccer was no longer an option, but right now he plans to change classes to soccer in 9th grade after football season ends and continue playing both school sports for at least another year or until the football coaches don't let him do both at school anymore- he's not ready to be forced to choose one or the other at school yet.
Aston94
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oh no said:

My oldest would have been PO'd if soccer moved to fall. He loves and excels at both soccer and football. He would still have club and ODP soccer if school soccer was no longer an option, but right now he plans to change classes to soccer in 9th grade after football season ends and continue playing both school sports for at least another year or until the football coaches don't let him do both at school anymore- he's not ready to be forced to choose one or the other at school yet.
If a HS football coach doesn't allow a kid to play football and soccer in high school under the current scheduling then that coach needs to be replaced. Soccer is so good for football player agility and has no conflict with football or even 7 on 7 play.
jeffk
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Amen and amen.
oh no
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I don't think they would disallow him from changing classes after football season, but at some point, not being in off-season football workouts from thanksgiving through March might affect his standing with the football coaches and whether he's starting on the A team over a kid who stays in football (or whose other sport isn't a class they have to get out of football for- such as rugby or lacrosse). On the flip side, making varsity soccer in 9th or 10th for school might be affected if he's not in the soccer class all fall during football season. I can see a decision to one school sport feeling forced very soon.

But I agree: the fitness conditioning and agility footwork, especially the cognitive agility / quick decision-making, from soccer helps tremendously with all other sports including football.
Aston94
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oh no said:

I don't think they would disallow him from changing classes after football season, but at some point, not being in off-season football workouts from thanksgiving through March might affect his standing with the football coaches and whether he's starting on the A team over a kid who stays in football (or whose other sport isn't a class they have to get out of football for- such as rugby or lacrosse). On the flip side, making varsity soccer in 9th or 10th for school might be affected if he's not in the soccer class all fall during football season. I can see a decision to one school sport feeling forced very soon.

But I agree: the fitness conditioning and agility footwork, especially the cognitive agility / quick decision-making, from soccer helps tremendously with all other sports including football.
Well, again, as a HS coach I would gladly share my players during soccer season so that they are getting the agility training from soccer, I am not punishing them for missing off season S&C to play soccer.
jeffk
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Good coaches will play the kids that give their teams the best chance to win games. Bad coaches are petty and hold grudges and view kids as "soccer kids" or "football kids." I've worked with both types of coaches. Hopefully the second type is becoming more rare.
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