Soccer Tactic Questions

2,516 Views | 43 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Mathguy64
Rudyjax
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What is playing from the back?

What is the opposite of that?

What other tactics are there?

I think i know the answers, but want to see what more knowledgeable folks know.


medog
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"Playing out from the back," the principle whereby teams begin passing moves from deep in their defensive third, has become increasingly popular but has yielded mixed results.

There is risk attached to adopting the tactic, particularly against teams that are using a high intensity pressing game to nullify it, but there are myriad tactical reasons why playing out from the back can be advantageous."

Opposite would be playing long balls to midfield or beyond.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/3945761/why-playing-out-from-the-back-has-brought-mixed-results-for-premier-league-clubs
Rudyjax
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I read that quote too.

Aston94
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What is playing from the back?

Keeper passing short balls out to defenders and working the ball up the pitch. The focus of this is that possession is king, and if you have the ball you want to keep the ball. Risk with this strategy is a bad pass resulting in a turn over in your own penalty box and a quick shot for the other team.

What is the opposite of that?

Longer goal kicks to midfield, where the kick becomes a 50/50 ball and you have a chance of losing possession right away.

What other tactics are there?

Many tactics such as playing direct from midfield up to forward who then will possess and distribute (normally associated with a 4-4-2 formation) or passing wide and into the channels and allowing crosses and forwards to run onto ball on sides of penalty box (normally associated with a 4-3-2-1 or a 4-5-1). Many other tactics, Berhalter likes the 4-3-3 as it allows you to counter and press. Some teams like to press the other team up high (near the other teams goal area) and others prefer to sit back and let the opponent hold the ball, but on the fringes and not in the middle of the field.

I think i know the answers, but want to see what more knowledgeable folks know.
deadbq03
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To build on this, it's specifically referring to what a team likes to do in the back third of the pitch. It's largely independent of what other tactics a team uses to progress the ball in the middle third or final third.

IMO the clearest time to see if a team plays from the back is when they recycle the ball. If it's passed back to the GK, does he prefer to punt it forward or pass to a defender? If it's passed back to a defender, does he tend to quickly get the ball to a midfielder or does he pass to another defender or the GK?
Mathguy64
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Building out from the back became more of a thing when the Laws changed to allow for a fast restart on a goal kick taken to a teammate in the penalty area. The tactical hope is the other team presses you high and their midfielders move up as well. If they come up higher you have a chance at a counter passing through two lines of players by midfield.

The downside is you can screw yourself over with one bad pass to a goal keeper. See Arsenal, Chelsea, United and the U23 USMNT as examples.
PatAg
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You could also equate it to the old Texas Tech offenses that would dink and dunk its way down the field in 5 yard incremeents vs a more explosive offense that attacks downfield but maybe goes 3 and out more often.

Build it from the back, generally shorter linking passes where you work it up from the defense to the midfield then eventually to the strikers, emphasizing possession and moving the defense around with your passing.
If done well, it does allow for "line breaking passes" an example would be a center back bypassing the opposing teams midfield with a pass to a striker/winger in an advanced position. So you arent locked in to ONLY short passes

For a long time a lot of teams would just lob balls from the backline to the forward up top, and hope he would win the ball or the rest of the team would win the 2nd ball 50/50 challenge from the deflection. Or similarly, consistently playing balls behind the opposing teams defense and letting your fast players try to outrun the defender onto it.
You are more likely to concede possession this way, but there's also the chance that when it works you are immediately in a goal scoring position.
PatAg
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Mathguy64 said:

Building out from the back became more of a thing when the Laws changed to allow for a fast restart on a goal kick taken to a teammate in the penalty area. The tactical hope is the other team presses you high and their midfielders move up as well. If they come up higher you have a chance at a counter passing through two lines of players by midfield.

The downside is you can screw yourself over with one bad pass to a goal keeper. See Arsenal, Chelsea, United and the U23 USMNT as examples.
When Playing It Out Of The Back Goes Wrong is a good search on Twitter. #WPIOOTBGW
PatAg
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You also would generally want/need to have all of your backline, midfield, and goalie to be confident on the ball under pressure, and to have a good first touch. (also good positioning when you are OFF the ball, and not just standing around)

So you might have an outside back or midfielder that is fast, but maybe weak on the ball. Or a centerback that is a god at winning aerials but has 2 left feet. This would then be a weakness in building it out of the back
Rudyjax
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Most teams on my daughters midlevel leagues and tournaments play out the back.

Mathguy64
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It's being taught and emphasized by most leagues and coaches today. Possession and passing skills will greatly benefit from this as the years pass.
Rudyjax
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I guess the days are gone when coaches would yell at their defenders for passing the ball to the midfielders.
PatAg
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The nice thing about learning to play this way when you are young, is you can always easily play more direct when it is needed. It's better to gain confidence on the ball in tight spaces when you are young.
Rudyjax
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Funny story, not really, but my daughters team lost on a goal almost exactly like the U23 team about 3 hours earlier.
jeffk
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Building from the back is a good developmental practice.... but there's a certain necessary baseline of skills in positioning, ball control, and passing needed to make it work. After all, if the other team doesn't have the ball, they can't score on you (theoretically, anyway).

When teams try to employ it in game situations and those skills aren't up to snuff, they create tons of turnovers and easy goals for the attacking team. Disrupting possession is by far an easier skill for younger players than effectively maintaining possession. So ideally, you work on this stuff in practice all the time and get proficient enough to perform consistently in games, but my own personal opinion is that you should still teach your teams to play onto long balls from the back in case they're getting stymied by a high-pressing team. It's really discouraging to force kids to continually try to do something in a game that they're just not ready for.

All that said, even the pros will make bone-headed turnovers that lead to easy goals on a weekly basis... Liverpool does it about every 15 minutes this calendar year. Like someone else said @WPIOOTBGW is a great follow on twitter.

I'll add that there's an extra layer of snobbery about being able to play out of the back and build possession instead of relying on "long balls" or "route one football." They're just different approaches with different required proficiencies. The best teams (and coaches) can use both when the situations are right.
oh no
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playing out from the back = breaking lines with possession - diagonal balls, switching the field, combining with teammates, etc.

opposite = keeper sending everyone up and in and punting it to or past the half-line - hoping your guys will win a 50-50 ball.

teams have to be good at both.. if the opponent is using a lot of high pressure, you want to be able to win those 50-50 balls... if you can't, you better be quick and solid technically to beat the press and keep possession to get the ball up into the attacking 3rd.
Rudyjax
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Is this playing out the back?

PatAg
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So the moment where the LB gets the ball, and opts to start a combination play with the midfielder? Good

Back in the day you just lump it up top and hope the forward wins it
Onceaggie2.0
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Playing from the back is what led to the USA being bounced by Honduras the emphasis in doing this costs games around the world. HTH
Wrighty
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Playing out of the back was invented to ensure that u10 coaches develop the proper amount of gray hair at an early age.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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PatAg
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This is an interesting article, and the person does a good job of explaining it in basic terms at first.

https://chasingacup.com/positional-play-scholar-the-most-important-role-for-the-usmnt-future-regista-part-ii-the-modern-6/
TXAggie2011
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That's some good playing out of the back paired with some terrible ball chasing defending
KCup17
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Personally I always find high pressing/counter attacking teams to be really fun to watch. As long as it isn't Atleti or Jose Mourinhos tactics. i.e The park the bus tactic, which is really annoying and slows the play down.
oh no
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being able to play out from the back is important for development because it forces all of the players, defenders, midfielders, and forwards, to learn to be good technically with the ball at their feet - good first touch, first time and two-touch accurate passing and to be good tactically - good decisions, good spacing, knowing your options, switching and combining, taking advantage of 2v1 situations, etc. Also, youth goal keepers can't just send everyone "up and in" and punt the ball very far until they're teenagers. I don't even think goalies are allowed to punt until U13 or so when they start 11v11. If you can't play out from the back and depend only on long balls and counters for any dangerous possession opportunities, players will get more gassed, it can impede players' technical development, and what can end up happening is the product looks like kick-ball - not soccer. You have to be able to mix it up and do both, adjust to what your opponents are giving you in each situation, and adjust to your own teams' strengths, etc. If your keeper or defenders want to just play kick ball and skip the midfield every time, can they get it there proficiently? Can your forwards win a 50-50 ball? If they have to check to the ball, you want to end up with them getting a diagonal ball going to goal or get someone overlapping wide so they can crash the box, so can they one-time the long ball to someone to set up that run? It's all important to work on and players have to be good and be able to play in all different situations.
Rudyjax
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Quote:

I don't even think goalies are allowed to punt until U13 or so when they start 11v11.
Where did you get that?

Maybe in recreational with a buildout line.
oh no
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Look guys... said:

Quote:

I don't even think goalies are allowed to punt until U13 or so when they start 11v11.
Where did you get that?

Maybe in recreational with a buildout line.

9v9 is until U12 and I didn't think keepers could punt on those small-sided fields.
Rudyjax
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oh no said:

Look guys... said:

Quote:

I don't even think goalies are allowed to punt until U13 or so when they start 11v11.
Where did you get that?

Maybe in recreational with a buildout line.

9v9 is until U12 and I didn't think keepers could punt on those small-sided fields.


They can. It's fun when they're U12 and can punt the length.

9v9 they definitely can punt.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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Goalie stopping the ball instead of first timing it cost our team the Olympic trial !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BigJim49AustinnowDallas
jeffk
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rudyjax
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BigJim49 AustinNowDallas said:

Goalie stopping the ball instead of first timing it cost our team the Olympic trial !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hard to play out of the back when you're booming it downfield for a 50/50 ball.
jeffk
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You forgot this:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PatAg
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BigJim49 AustinNowDallas said:

Goalie stopping the ball instead of first timing it cost our team the Olympic trial !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well askhully

He got a lot of praise for juking someone earlier in the tournament, so he decided he would sauce it up and make the difficult pass instead of passing it to the open player who could then square it to the outside back.
Rudyjax
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So today in Barnsley/Reading, Barnsley passed it back to the keeper. The only problem is the 9 for Reading happened to be in the goal catching his breath. He runs in front of the keeper who doesn't know he's there to pass to a teammate. Open goal. Reading misses it wide.
PatAg
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Talk about a game that is mostly throwback "lump it forward and pray" soccer. Rough to watch.
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