The talent gap between USWNT and USMNT...

5,534 Views | 64 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by monarch
Mr. White
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Trash
gig them
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You seem to have a bit of an agenda, Mr. White
Mr. White
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I posted a video
Aston94
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Ashlynn Harris sure does talk a lot of smack for someone that saw the same amount of time on the pitch at the World Cup that I did....
Smokedraw01
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How miserable does someone have to be to be offended about how someone celebrates their victory?
Mr. White
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Smokedraw01 said:

How miserable does someone have to be to be offended about how someone celebrates their victory?


Not miserable at all. I just find it funny that these women (not ladies at all) are celebrated. They won a sports event.

Grow up, people.
PatAg
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Mr. White said:

Smokedraw01 said:

How miserable does someone have to be to be offended about how someone celebrates their victory?


Not miserable at all. I just find it funny that these women (not ladies at all) are celebrated. They won a sports event.

Grow up, people.
While I do think we overvalue athletes in our society, do you feel the same about the super bowl?
Mr. White
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PatAg said:

Mr. White said:

Smokedraw01 said:

How miserable does someone have to be to be offended about how someone celebrates their victory?


Not miserable at all. I just find it funny that these women (not ladies at all) are celebrated. They won a sports event.

Grow up, people.
While I do think we overvalue athletes in our society, do you feel the same about the super bowl?


Of course.
agracer
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oh no said:

to their academy starting at around U12 (mostly 11 year olds), those are kids who have already been paying big $ to the clubs for their development, and the lower income families are still excluded unless they were on a club scholarship at 7, 8, 9, 10 years old.
doesn't US Soccer say no to "club" soccer below u11?
TXAggie2011
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Mr. White said:

Smokedraw01 said:

How miserable does someone have to be to be offended about how someone celebrates their victory?


Not miserable at all. I just find it funny that these women (not ladies at all) are celebrated. They won a sports event.

Grow up, people.


(1) Get off a sports website.

(2) Get off a soccer page on a sports website. Really, you don't have to participate.

(3) Additions like "not ladies at all" cheapen your comment; and frankly give your real motivations away.
Mr. White
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How does my commentary on their behavior cheapen my comments? I don't want their garbage behavior representing my country.

I don't want their 2nd grade comprehension of economics representing my country.

They're an embarrassment.
Smokedraw01
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Mr. White said:

How does my commentary on their behavior cheapen my comments? I don't want their garbage behavior representing my country.

I don't want their 2nd grade comprehension of economics representing my country.

They're an embarrassment.


Again, how miserable you must be.
oh no
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agracer said:

oh no said:

to their academy starting at around U12 (mostly 11 year olds), those are kids who have already been paying big $ to the clubs for their development, and the lower income families are still excluded unless they were on a club scholarship at 7, 8, 9, 10 years old.
doesn't US Soccer say no to "club" soccer below u11?


No. What would be the alternative? US Soccer Development Academy starts at U12, but they are getting rid of U12 and now starts at U13 and next year may start at U14. Only the MLS academies and rich clubs with good fields and "A licensed" coaches in big markets can participate in the DA. So really the best way to develop and get noticed right now is to play in DA and the way to make a DA squad is to "pay to play" at one of these clubs from the crucial development stages of 7-8-9-10 years old onwards and hope to make their top team (DA). If you're in an MLS or USL market, their academy plays in the DA too so top players at the pay to play clubs may get noticed and recruited to the MLS academy and not have to pay, but they would have had to be developed by the club before that.
gig them
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Mr. White said:

How does my commentary on their behavior cheapen my comments? I don't want their garbage behavior representing my country.

I don't want their 2nd grade comprehension of economics representing my country.

They're an embarrassment.

To be fair, I don't want your embarrassing behavior representing my country either.

I suppose we're all free to choose our own path.
Mr. White
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You and Smokedraw have to fabricate to "argue". I just present facts.

Okay.
TXAggie2011
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Mr. White said:

How does my commentary on their behavior cheapen my comments? I don't want their garbage behavior representing my country.

I don't want their 2nd grade comprehension of economics representing my country.

They're an embarrassment.
Just the facts? This is a bunch of opinions.

You don't like their politics. Whatever. But that's what I meant by cheapening your argument about giving too much attention to people who won a sports event.


Seriously, if you don't like soccer players getting attention, you don't have to come to the soccer board.
Law Hall 69-72
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Preach on, Mr. White!
McJulie-O
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There was an intriguing article from the federalist.com suggesting that since Title IX, soccer has been perceived by American males as a "girls' sport"...
Link: https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/15/american-womens-sports-need-get-feminine/
Quote:

...in the United States, where middle-class girls have been funneled into soccer practices for years. Federal government interference also played its part: the sport took off after the passage of Title IX, which pushed schools to somehow get equal numbers of males and females to play sports. Today, young American women achieve near parity with American men in participation rates. I wonder if the lackluster performance of the U.S. men in soccer has something to do with the perception of it as a sport for women and children.
What I didn't know was that Brazil, Germany, and England all banned women's soccer until the 1970s and '80s, and that even though European nations legalized women's soccer at about the same time the United States passed Title IX, there isn't much interest among women there.


I've heard many complaints from hard core soccer fans that the women's game is painful to watch compared to the men's ... too slow and too primitive,.... but there is no doubt that the US women rule the world of women's soccer, and I've always enjoyed watching the Ags with their blend of strength and slippery speed...

(Confession: I never watch pro-soccer, but I also never watch pro-football, preferring the college game every time.)
gibberish
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I tend to think the pure competition has been better at the WWC the last few tournaments, with less acting than in the Men's game. More playing through fouls to take quality chances, but i did see what seemed to be an uptick in flops this year.

So i expect more rolling Neymar impersonations by next WWC.



gig them
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You're never gonna cure flopping, especially in the box. The reward is too great.

You'd need to institute a heavy (HEAVY) post-match review penalty to have a chance at curbing that behavior, and even then you'd still see people taking their chances. Especially with VAR.
akm91
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It seems like every potential penalty call involves VAR review now. There is no need to wait until post match to assess penalties if the player is caught for simulation.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
littlebitofhifi
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I met a 30-year old woman last week who's from Spain and despite being in their elite talent pool at U-17 level was told that soccer was a "man's sport" so she quit and switched to tennis where she was a ranked player for several years. It was pretty eye-opening to me that there were still European nations discouraging their top female talent from playing soccer.

There's not going to be a one-size-fits all to growing the women's game but it's super interesting to dive into all the individual nation's nuances, challenges, and approaches.
'03ag
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McJulie-O said:

There was an intriguing article from the federalist.com suggesting that since Title IX, soccer has been perceived by American males as a "girls' sport"...
I was certainly guilty of this as a kid. Didnt play soccer past the age of 6. Played a ton of baseball which I was never good at. I started playing indoor soccer with some friends 3 or 4 years ago. Love it. The game is a blast to play even when you have no skills. I play a lot of keeper which is also fun for different reasons.
PatAg
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Until probably the last decade, you just had to be lucky enough to grow up somewhere where soccer was already popular. Luckily Texas had DFW, Houston, and San Antonio with really good club scenes and leagues.
I found that most people who thought it was a "girls sport" just lacked the foot/eye coordination to play as no other sport needs it. Everything else crosses over, body control and balance of course.
I also remember it being one of the more popular sports on the playground in elementary school, we'd alternate between it and "touch" football. (We'd still tackle the hell out of each other, it was just always accidental)
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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littlebitofhifi said:

I met a 30-year old woman last week who's from Spain and despite being in their elite talent pool at U-17 level was told that soccer was a "man's sport" so she quit and switched to tennis where she was a ranked player for several years. It was pretty eye-opening to me that there were still European nations discouraging their top female talent from playing soccer.

There's not going to be a one-size-fits all to growing the women's game but it's super interesting to dive into all the individual nation's nuances, challenges, and approaches.
Interesting post, especially the cultural aspect. I remember going to an Italian Serie 'B' match about 15 years ago and one of the discounts for pricing was offered to women. Culturally, soccer was a men's thing.

I wonder if the big clubs are running the numbers and starting to figure out that the spend in terms of maintaining a ladies squad is less than the income from the same. Since ladies sides are popping up at more and more clubs, I suspect that this is the case.

If, in the long term, the better and higher reward for female players is a professional club contract (instead of a scholarship to a US university) then you will start to see the women's game follow the men and I think US women's dominance will erode.

With respect to soccer being a "girls" sport, I recall some of that attitude growing up, but when you started seeing people play at a truly high level, they realized that just wasn't true. I was in one of the last generations where the varisty soccer coach in high school was just some football position coach that picked the short straw and had little idea what he was doing. They would treat you like second class citizens (believing the sport to be easy or weak or whatever), but the second they tried to understand, instruct, or even be a part of the action, they were laughably out of their depth.
McJulie-O
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blindey said:

Interesting post, especially the cultural aspect. I remember going to an Italian Serie 'B' match about 15 years ago and one of the discounts for pricing was offered to women. Culturally, soccer was a men's thing.
A discount for women to buy tickets??? Interesting! Somehow that reminds me of the old historic jail in Gonzales, that kept one jail cell separate from the others, which they explain as being specifically for "lunatics and women".

Incidentally, back around 2000, in TAMU intramural mixed sex soccer matches, goals scored by girl team members counted double, which effectively cut down on ball hogging by the guy team members... Anybody know if that is still the case?

littlebitofhifi
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That's still the case in my over-30 co-ed indoor league. We actually all really like it (guys & gals) because it prevents men's teams from enlisting their girlfriends/wives to just stand on the pitch while they show off around them. We end up with pretty solid mixed competition and sometimes fun end of game tactics when a team is down 2+ and tries to really setup goal scoring opportunities for the ladies.
gig them
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I always enjoyed the two goal rule. We had girls take all of our penalties, and most dangerous free kicks.

And yes, the strategy was always super interesting.
AustinScubaAg
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gig them said:

I always enjoyed the two goal rule. We had girls take all of our penalties, and most dangerous free kicks.

And yes, the strategy was always super interesting.
The two goal rule was much better the other co-ed options I have seen. I played in one league where a guy could not score unless the ball was passed from a girl and a second league that limited guys to two touches. Those rules really suck.
'03ag
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Where I play indoor they have a red line that guys have to be behind in order to shoot, unless a girl passes them the ball inside the line, then they are considered "hot" and can shoot from wherever. All girl goals count as 2.

My wife has played coed in that league and it's fine. The team we're on together is "take it easy" league and there is no hot rule, nor do they keep score. Frankly there's never been an issue with guys dominating too much. Everyone tries to be reasonable. Not sure I'd want the hassle of dealing with the extra rules.
monarch
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S
"Pay us *****."
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