A Michael Bradley Discussion

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Aston94
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2:50p, 7/4/19
AG
I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on Michael Bradley without burying it in a game thread.

I know just the name sends some of you over the cliff and into a fit of rage. He was the symbol of our failure last WCQ as the captain of the team. But I have been very impressed with his efforts in the Gold Cup, and wanted to see if others agree.

1. I have found his passing to be great this Gold Cup. His passes to the wings and into corners have been really good and have created a lot of our offense.

2. He has been content to sit in the hole behind McKennie and Pulisic, allowing the two of them the freedom to make runs and not sit back in defense.

3. I like him as a calming presence for our young defenders and young midfielders. He seems to be happy being an outlet for defenders under pressure.

4. I have seen signs that he has lost a step, like a Jamaican forward running past him. But he has been steady in the middle of the defense.

5. I don't know that we have a lot of other/better options at that position. Will Trapp is not of the same class, at least not now. I have seen comments about looking forward to a midfield trio of Adams-McKennie-Pulisic, I have concerns about Adams sitting in the defensive mid rile, and letting Pulisic and McKennie run free has really added an element to our offense.

6. It is no coincidence that the three goals against Jamaica all came from the two midfielders who were free to roam and make runs into the penalty box.

7. I really think he will be a valuable piece through the WCQ and hopefully 2022 WC, allowing the USMNT to develop a holding mid. Maybe Adams can be that, but not sure.

Those are my thoughts, just curious to hear what others have thought of his Gold Cup and his future with USMNT.
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Pahdz
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2:59p, 7/4/19
dead on, he's been brilliant this tournament
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texagbeliever
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3:24p, 7/4/19
Bradley looks great against opponents who dont leave a man marking him or who arent pressing high up well. If given time and space he can play great balls and has good vision. If pressed he goes backward and isnt able to relieve the pressure which leads to turnovers. This is true for most central defensive midfielders and is highlighted more in a possession oriented style of play which the USA switched too.
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Aston94
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In reply to texagbeliever • 3:53p, 7/4/19
AG
That's true, but like you said, you could probably say the same thing with every defensive mid.

When Jamaica started many marking Bradley it was up to the rest of team to find the open man and use him. They were leaving the outside defenders wide open, and once we found them it opened Bradley and the middle back up.

He was good last night against the press, it took the team time to figure out what Jamaica was doing after the delay, but they did find a way around.
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PatAg
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4:19p, 7/4/19
AG
Bradley is the best option of the pool of players available to GB in the Gold Cup. Adams is currently a better player, and still has a lot of potential development ahead of it as well. Pomykal is also probably better at the defensive part, and is also young and able to develop more.
I think Bradley will be extremely valuable in the player pool during qualifying and at the next World Cup, I just expect most of his time to be on the bench.
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mrmill3218
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In reply to Aston94 • 4:21p, 7/4/19
AG
You shouldn't have concerns about Adams playing the defensive mid role, as he is playing that for one of the best teams in the world in RB Leipzig. Bradley has been fine against bad opponents in the gold cup, but Adams is a big step up IMO.
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Smokedraw01
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4:31p, 7/4/19
Bradley will continue to play a role up to the next World Cup until someone better comes along. For now, there isn't a better option.
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mrmill3218
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In reply to Smokedraw01 • 4:34p, 7/4/19
AG
You don't think Adams is a better option?
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mrmill3218
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4:34p, 7/4/19
AG
Alfredo Morales is a better option. Paxton pomykal is a better option. Danny Williams is a better option. And of course, Tyler Adams is a better option.
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Smokedraw01
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 5:06p, 7/4/19
mrmill3218 said:
You don't think Adams is a better option?


Not yet.
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mrmill3218
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In reply to Smokedraw01 • 5:10p, 7/4/19
AG
Smokedraw01 said:
mrmill3218 said:
You don't think Adams is a better option?


Not yet.


Can you explain? He's playing that role for a team that finished third in the bundesliga. There's really just no comparison IMO.
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TXAggie2011
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5:44p, 7/4/19
AG
Adams played like 10 times for Leipzig this past season. Maybe he'll get there, but don't accidentally be misleading about what role he played.

Not every young player is going to be a better option just because they've spent some time on a better team. It's just not that simple.
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oragator
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5:55p, 7/4/19
When Bradley fails, it's usually because he is put out of position (see last World Cup after Jozy's injury), or is facing a team that can press him hard.

But when he has time on the ball he is able to control the pace of a game and almost always make the right pass, and do it with quality, I mentioned it in the other thread, he also has a great work rate, which helps everyone else on the field, he helps erase others mistakes.
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Pahdz
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 6:33p, 7/4/19
The rest of your post is a joke, but Danny Williams is a guy I never feel got a full fair shot with the nats
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akm91
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 7:10p, 7/4/19
AG
TXAggie2011 said:
Adams played like 10 times for Leipzig this past season. Maybe he'll get there, but don't accidentally be misleading about what role he played.


Adams was a January transfer so he played in 10 of 17 matches in the second half of the Bundesliga season. The fact he got several starts (6 starts?) coming into a new teams that was fighting for Champions league birth shows his ability. I think he also missed a few games due to injury.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
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Aston94
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7:31p, 7/4/19
AG
I guess next season I need to watch more of Leipzig. I thought Adams played a role more like that we are asking of McKennie.

Morales never showed me much, the passing Bradley has shown in this Gold Cup has been sublime, I have not ever seen that out of Morales.

Danny Williams is interesting. I did like his game, he probably is a better defender than Bradley, not sure about the passing. Is he still with Reading?

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TXAggie2011
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In reply to akm91 • 7:51p, 7/4/19
AG
akm91 said:
TXAggie2011 said:
Adams played like 10 times for Leipzig this past season. Maybe he'll get there, but don't accidentally be misleading about what role he played.


Adams was a January transfer so he played in 10 of 17 matches in the second half of the Bundesliga season. The fact he got several starts (6 starts?) coming into a new teams that was fighting for Champions league birth shows his ability. I think he also missed a few games due to injury.


That's correct. He did go to Germany in January. He did miss some time due to injury. I think he does have some ability.

I'm responding to a guy whose analysis is essentially as deep as who is currently on the best team. As you've covered, Tyler Adams has spent very little time actually playing and practicing in the Bundesliga. Leipzig was plenty successful this year before he arrived, as well.

Going into the summer, he had about 3 healthy months' experience in Europe.

Adams today is probably essentially a very similar player to what he was in MLS. Yet, mrmill wouldn't have let Adams near the national team while he still played in MLS.
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PatAg
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 8:14p, 7/4/19
AG
TXAggie2011 said:
Adams played like 10 times for Leipzig this past season. Maybe he'll get there, but don't accidentally be misleading about what role he played.

Not every young player is going to be a better option just because they've spent some time on a better team. It's just not that simple.
Once he joined them, they went on a big run, and didn't give up goals at all. He was credited for a lot of that success by German media. He is absolutely starting over Bradley already. and I've always been a big Bradley supporter
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akm91
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 8:36p, 7/4/19
AG
Not sure why you're so hung up on Adams MLS background. At this point in their careers, Bradley would be fighting to make the bench at Leipzig let alone start for them.

Bradley just doesn't have the speed to play at defensive mid against top opponents.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
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TXAggie2011
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8:36p, 7/4/19
AG
My point was to look past the league. Adams isn't any different a player now than he was while with New York.
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to akm91 • 8:38p, 7/4/19
AG
akm91 said:
Not sure why you're so hung up on Adams MLS background. At this point in their careers, Bradley would be fighting to make the bench at Leipzig let alone start for them.

Bradley just doesn't have the speed to play at defensive mid against top opponents.


I never said a word about Bradley. hth.
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mrmill3218
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 8:44p, 7/4/19
AG
TXAggie2011 said:
Adams played like 10 times for Leipzig this past season. Maybe he'll get there, but don't accidentally be misleading about what role he played.

Not every young player is going to be a better option just because they've spent some time on a better team. It's just not that simple.


I'm not saying every young player who has spent time on a better team is a better option. I just think Adams is a better player full stop. And since he is a better player, he is on a better team. Being on a really good team is usually proof that you are a really good player. I just think it says a lot about his quality, which we've all seen. That is my point.
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mrmill3218
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In reply to akm91 • 8:45p, 7/4/19
AG
akm91 said:
Not sure why you're so hung up on Adams MLS background. At this point in their careers, Bradley would be fighting to make the bench at Leipzig let alone start for them.

Bradley just doesn't have the speed to play at defensive mid against top opponents.


Bradley just wouldn't see the pitch for Leipzig, or really anyone else in the bundesliga.
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mrmill3218
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8:47p, 7/4/19
AG
Bradley's biggest problem is that he isn't really a #6. When he was a #8 and didn't have to tackle and play a bunch of defense is when he was at his best. (See the 2010 WC where he had Mo Edu next to him.)

I've never understood why he starting insisting on playing as a 6, but he hasn't really been great since.
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 8:55p, 7/4/19
AG
mrmill3218 said:
TXAggie2011 said:
Adams played like 10 times for Leipzig this past season. Maybe he'll get there, but don't accidentally be misleading about what role he played.

Not every young player is going to be a better option just because they've spent some time on a better team. It's just not that simple.


I'm not saying every young player who has spent time on a better team is a better option. I just think Adams is a better player full stop. And since he is a better player, he is on a better team. Being on a really good team is usually proof that you are a really good player. I just think it says a lot about his quality, which we've all seen. That is my point.


Every roster choice you make just about starts and stops with team and league evaluation. There's about a 100% chance you'd take a non-MLS player over an MLS player, full stop.

Tyler Adams isn't much more of a player today than he was before he spent about 2.5-3 healthy months with Leipzig. But you know you wouldn't have pumped him before he made that move.
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mrmill3218
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 9:04p, 7/4/19
AG
Generally speaking, guys that are playing in Europe are better than guys that are playing in MLS. They're playing in Europe and not MLS because they're better players. I have no problem giving MLS guys credit and having them in the team if they're the best option, but if you really think Bradley is a better option than adams then you're just not watching.
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to PatAg • 9:06p, 7/4/19
AG
PatAg said:
TXAggie2011 said:
Adams played like 10 times for Leipzig this past season. Maybe he'll get there, but don't accidentally be misleading about what role he played.

Not every young player is going to be a better option just because they've spent some time on a better team. It's just not that simple.
Once he joined them, they went on a big run, and didn't give up goals at all. He was credited for a lot of that success by German media. He is absolutely starting over Bradley already. and I've always been a big Bradley supporter


They had a good second half and I think Adams played well. The best stretch was arguably when he was hurt and not playing, the one that ended with the draw with Bayern. The only loss after the end of the March was the one game Adams played.

I think with Ilsanker another year older, they'll have an increasingly large gap in the midfield. Ilsanker couldn't handle the higher pressure attacks in the 3-5-2 Leipzig was trying to play with.

If they keep the 4 back Combination's, he'll have to compete with Demme for the defensive role.

Demme did really well screening the back 4 they played with later in the season.

Otherwise Adams will have to settle into a more box to box(ish) role.
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jeffk
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9:24p, 7/4/19
AG
I've been wishing Bradley would play the stable six for about two cycles now. Unfortunately we haven't had a passable attacking CM that whole time so he's been forced forward when he really had no business doing so.

He's been great this tourney but his shelf life there will be pretty short I think. Hopefully he'll make way for a younger guy, maybe Adams, in the next 18 months and we'll see Old Man Bradley as a sub/leadership guy on the squad in Qatar.
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jeffk
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 9:35p, 7/4/19
AG
mrmill3218 said:
Bradley's biggest problem is that he isn't really a #6. When he was a #8 and didn't have to tackle and play a bunch of defense is when he was at his best. (See the 2010 WC where he had Mo Edu next to him.)

I've never understood why he starting insisting on playing as a 6, but he hasn't really been great since.


I should have just said that I think the opposite of what mrmill does.
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mrmill3218
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In reply to jeffk • 9:56p, 7/4/19
AG
Haha amen, Jeffk. Has always appreciated your thoughts.

But for me, Bradley as a box to box guy in the 2010 World Cup was the best Bradley we've ever seen. And I feel like he has been a "stable 6" for a long time now and just hasn't done very well. He doesn't defend or tackle or cover ground like a 6 should, IMO. When he has a guy like Edu next to him it freed him up a lot. I think he got obsessed with the 6 role for some reason after the 2010 wc and just hasn't been the same since.
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snowdog90
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10:04p, 7/4/19
Personally, I think Bradley was at his very best when his role was obvious and he knew exactly what he needed to do. That time period coincides with Landon Donovan being on the team.

When Donovan was dismissed, there was a huge void in offensive midfield creativity. It seems like Bradley was confused at times as to what role was needed, holding midfielder or attacking midfielder.

Now, with Pulisic seemingly succeeding in filling that Donovan void, Bradley is comfortable again in his role, and is playing better than I've seen him play since Donovan left.
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Pahdz
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 10:05p, 7/4/19
mrmill3218 said:
Generally speaking, guys that are playing in Europe are better than guys that are playing in MLS. They're playing in Europe and not MLS because they're better players. I have no problem giving MLS guys credit and having them in the team if they're the best option, but if you really think Bradley is a better option than adams then you're just not watching.


The key word in this statement is "playing."

I think right now we have too many guys just "in" Europe we want immediately move to the front of the line because of that. Granted this discussion is about Adams and he is playing, but the necessary evil of going on loan to play in leagues basically on MLS level for some of these other guys is frustrating at times.
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jeffk
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In reply to mrmill3218 • 10:17p, 7/4/19
AG
Thanks, sir!

He was fine at the 8 in 2010, you're right. Pretty quickly after that I thought his pace dropped off and he struggled in moving the ball into the offensive third. Had we had a competent 10 in the 2014 (and really the 2018) campaign, he could have sat deeper and shielded our CBs a bit more. He still had to play the 6 on occasions but never seemed to be able to relinquish control of the offense to another MF player. Unfortunately now that he's actually comfortable doing so, he's 44 years old and about to be put out to pasture.
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PatAg
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 11:04p, 7/4/19
AG
TXAggie2011 said:
PatAg said:
TXAggie2011 said:
Adams played like 10 times for Leipzig this past season. Maybe he'll get there, but don't accidentally be misleading about what role he played.

Not every young player is going to be a better option just because they've spent some time on a better team. It's just not that simple.
Once he joined them, they went on a big run, and didn't give up goals at all. He was credited for a lot of that success by German media. He is absolutely starting over Bradley already. and I've always been a big Bradley supporter


They had a good second half and I think Adams played well. The best stretch was arguably when he was hurt and not playing, the one that ended with the draw with Bayern. The only loss after the end of the March was the one game Adams played.
Quote:

I think with Ilsanker another year older, they'll have an increasingly large gap in the midfield. Ilsanker couldn't handle the higher pressure attacks in the 3-5-2 Leipzig was trying to play with.

If they keep the 4 back Combination's, he'll have to compete with Demme for the defensive role.

Demme did really well screening the back 4 they played with later in the season.

Otherwise Adams will have to settle into a more box to box(ish) role.
This is just not true.
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PatAg
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11:06p, 7/4/19
AG
https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/81797/tyler-adams-draws-rave-review-from-his-rb-leipzig.html

found one article about it I remember reading.
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