It sucks that idiots say/post stupid things. But put me in the camp that is against treating any slander as legitimate (not counting threats) does more harm than good. But uk hates freedom.
Manchester United 2019-20 Thread
77,499 Views |
1426 Replies |
Last: 3 yr ago by Dre_00
why can't we have nice things?Thunder18 said:
Shaw reportedly out at least 4 weeks...and Dalot is also unavailable until after the international break. Be ready for more Ashley Young than anyone wanted to see this year
Not to get into a discussion with another Arsenal supported in a Manchester United thread, but I'm confused by the last two sentences.texagbeliever said:
It sucks that idiots say/post stupid things. But put me in the camp that is against treating any slander as legitimate (not counting threats) does more harm than good. But uk hates freedom.
Are you saying ManU/the UK is wrong because they shouldn't give these guys the satisfaction of our attention by tracking them down and giving out punishment or are you saying they're wrong because tracking them down and giving out punishment is infringing on "freedom?"
Racist idiots should be marginalized and ignored. Especially trolls on social media. Public outcry only fuels two reactions: 1) the trolls are empowered to continue trolling, 2) the social media fueled "awareness" generation gets the opportunity to e-pat themselves on the back.
We tried the ignore the idiots and ignore the social media trolls thing for a long time. It turns out that strategy didn't really work out.joemeister said:
Racist idiots should be marginalized and ignored. Especially trolls on social media. Public outcry only fuels two reactions: 1) the trolls are empowered to continue trolling, 2) the social media fueled "awareness" generation gets the opportunity to e-pat themselves on the back.
I gotta tell ya, if you think that ignoring trolls is a way of ending trolls then you haven't been on the internet very long.
Yeah, ignoring certain behaviors emboldens others to act similarly. The lingo used in class management is "whatever you allow, you endorse."
This is a fair point. I'd argue that the reason these posters post these things is exactly to get the attention that they are now getting and then some or they were just drunk. So by giving them the attention you are signaling to others that if they say something scandalous (but more scandalous then what has been said to be newsworthy) they can achieve that attention. I think the exercise of manu is pointless. Most likely these twitter posters don't have season tickets and don't go to games.jeffk said:
Yeah, ignoring certain behaviors emboldens others to act similarly. The lingo used in class management is "whatever you allow, you endorse."
As far as the UK seeking criminal punishment (maybe i misread) that is just tyranny in my book. Freedom of Speech is a foundation to a free society so i will speak out against any country that thwarts it.
BTW, I'm totally on board with derailing this thread during the week after the **** show that was last weekend. Thanks guys! We'll resume our regular broadcasting as we get closer to the weekend but I may ask you to pick it up again next week if this weekend goes badly. Which means I probably will ask you to pick it up again.
I bet my yearly salary that at least some of these people posting things on Twitter on Man United fans. Maybe not all but definitely some. And if they are, they've likely been to at least a game or two.texagbeliever said:This is a fair point. I'd argue that the reason these posters post these things is exactly to get the attention that they are now getting and then some or they were just drunk. So by giving them the attention you are signaling to others that if they say something scandalous (but more scandalous then what has been said to be newsworthy) they can achieve that attention. I think the exercise of manu is pointless. Most likely these twitter posters don't have season tickets and don't go to games.jeffk said:
Yeah, ignoring certain behaviors emboldens others to act similarly. The lingo used in class management is "whatever you allow, you endorse."
As far as the UK seeking criminal punishment (maybe i misread) that is just tyranny in my book. Freedom of Speech is a foundation to a free society so i will speak out against any country that thwarts it.
Freedom of speech is an extremely important part of a free society but philosophers and governments have ruled many times that it's not limitless. We have probably the strongest freedom of speech principle in the world and yet, even we have decided that free speech can be limited in some instances.
One of the biggest problems with trolls on social media is that the only true solution is to remove anonymity. That isn't going to happen. Promoting action against trolls is nothing more than virtue signaling by both the clubs and the governments. I guarantee people at Man U would much rather rant against twitter trolls than face tough questions about how they are running their club. The same can be said for politicians.
If you want to do something truly meaningful, start raising children that understand the value of "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." The point of ignoring trolls is not to make them go away, it's to remove their power. If you ignore them, you are liberated from their idiocy.
TexAgs is actually a great example. Look at how heavily moderated these forums are. There are word filters, clear posting guidelines, moderators and automated systems. Yet the trolls still exist. Word filters are meaningless because context allows you to easily by-pass them. Scale the situation up to something like Twitter and the technical problems are going to be more extreme and the systems already in place have absolutely been used for the suppression of political speech.
If you want to do something truly meaningful, start raising children that understand the value of "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." The point of ignoring trolls is not to make them go away, it's to remove their power. If you ignore them, you are liberated from their idiocy.
TexAgs is actually a great example. Look at how heavily moderated these forums are. There are word filters, clear posting guidelines, moderators and automated systems. Yet the trolls still exist. Word filters are meaningless because context allows you to easily by-pass them. Scale the situation up to something like Twitter and the technical problems are going to be more extreme and the systems already in place have absolutely been used for the suppression of political speech.
This is true in certain situations, for sure. I remind myself all the time "you are what you tolerate." There is a balance though. If you ask me, "Joe, do you think people should post revolting, racist messages on Twitter?" My answer is "no." If I had the ability to control what people posted, I would prevent it. In a smaller, more controlled environment, that type of moderation is possible. If one of my employees posted a racist statement on our firm's website, I would fire them immediately.jeffk said:
Yeah, ignoring certain behaviors emboldens others to act similarly. The lingo used in class management is "whatever you allow, you endorse."
In the realm of public speech, in my opinion, ignoring idiocy is not the same thing as tolerance or endorsement. Especially when the alternative, censorship, requires significant resources and will absolutely be used to suppress speech that shouldn't be suppressed. It is human nature to use power to influence other people. If you give politicians or even sports teams the power to suppress speech in the name of "crushing racism" that power will also be used to suppress any other speech the power-holders deem unacceptable. In other words, it's not about the racists at all, it's about the people who hold the power to shut the racists up. Those people cannot be trusted with that power, so we shouldn't give it to them.
Obviously much larger than a social media issue. Twitter isn't going to limit them...so what else? Twitter would do well to do some education campaigns, because there is a base that will see the garbage and accept it.
If athletes and movie stars pulled out of these platforms, they (Twitter, etc) would struggle to maintain relevance. Everyone says something should be done, but the only ones with power to make a difference to the platforms are those that are driving people out to them. Walk away...that's when the conversation gets real.
If athletes and movie stars pulled out of these platforms, they (Twitter, etc) would struggle to maintain relevance. Everyone says something should be done, but the only ones with power to make a difference to the platforms are those that are driving people out to them. Walk away...that's when the conversation gets real.
Education campaigns.... that just might be extremely effective. The time to keep people from thinking in that way was when their parents were raising them. Twitter would just reinforce the behavior.
I do agree that the simple solution would be for the athlete to just not be on twitter but then that affects their advertising exposure which affects their bottom line which ain't gonna happen. So athletes are choosing money over insults; I'm not feeling sympathy for that voluntary tradeoff they enter in.
I do agree that the simple solution would be for the athlete to just not be on twitter but then that affects their advertising exposure which affects their bottom line which ain't gonna happen. So athletes are choosing money over insults; I'm not feeling sympathy for that voluntary tradeoff they enter in.
interesting turn of events.... multiple reports of Chris Smailing going out on loan to Roma. Didn't see that one coming...
and in other team news... Martial is out of match against Southampton with a leg injury.
Trying to mentally prepare myself for when we tie or lose this weekend
Hey now. Ashley Young is going to kill it at LB. His crosses will be exquisite and result in 3 goals. And Alexis Sanchez filling in for Martial will really control the midfield like its never been controlled before. Have no fear. We got this.
Alexis, Smalling, and Darmian all leaving before the window closes? Ole's at the wheel!
Smalling on a loan for 3 million pound fee. Not sure if there's an option to buy. Don't think Darmian and Sanchez are official are they?
Looks like Alexis is official. Darmian isn't yet I don't think...in that I don't think United have announced it.
As for the game this weekend, plug Greenwood in and see what happens. Lingard needs to be benched. His start of the season has been no bueno.
As for the game this weekend, plug Greenwood in and see what happens. Lingard needs to be benched. His start of the season has been no bueno.
Lingard has been no bueno for a long time now....
Hey we scored against the run of play! James strikes again
James! We are a very different team today partly because Southampton wants to play and the game is open.
This James guy can't stop scoring
Other than James' goal we have looked pretty bad. Our passing has been terrible. Pogba, Pereira and Rashford are all having a stinker
I only started watching in the 35th minute but United didn't look great then. Yet we're leading significantly in possession, shots, and shots on goal so I guess it was good before I started watching?
We played well for a 25 minute stretch, but part of that was because SOU was high pressing and playing pretty open and that allowed out speed to come into play. Our first touch was not great, but SOU's has been awful.
I guess I would say we are very fast but our touch isn't good enough to play at that pace.
Pathetic and lazy defending strikes again
Defense has been **** the 2nd half. And deGea sucks. So there you go. 1-1.
Absolute Trash....
The overall effort level of our club is absolutely pathetic.
Goal wasn't De Gea's fault. We just can't string passes together. Would help to have a midfield.
Dre_00 said:
Goal wasn't De Gea's fault. We just can't string passes together. Would help to have a midfield.
Or a midfield that actually wants to be at the club. Pogba repeatedly lazily gives the ball away.