Messi

snowdog90
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Funny, too, that video is full of Premier League players gushing over how incredible Messi is - Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney. Messi destroys Premier League teams routinely. We'll see how Man U fares against him.
who?mikejones
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Ronaldo is perhaps the best scorer of all time.

Messi is a better passer, dribbler, has better vision, and has no problem scoring goals. He is almost Ronaldo's equal in that regard as well, he just does it with wit instead of power.

Messi is the better of the two. It's not really much of a discussion.
deadbq03
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Louis botha said:

AGC said:

In the last 5 years la Liga has had at least once, 3 of 4 semi-finalists in the CL. Is that really not the best league that year? Also the run of Atltico, Real, and Barca In then CL championship has been impressive. When was the last time the PL did something similar?
Its pretty much universal knowledge that the Premier League is the best in the world has been for awhile.
Best in what? Team budgets? Number of white US fans? I'd gladly grant them #1 in both those categories.

The UEFA country coefficient has told a different story. The EPL is on the right track to get into first, but just two years ago, they were third, so to act like they've been dominant is a fiction.

La Liga has held number 1 for 6 years straight, and the past few years have been by very wide margins.

FWIW between the two leagues, I've got no dog in the fight. I'm an idiot who follows the Bundesliga.
aTmAg
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Messi inquired about playing MLS

Wouldn't that be awesome?
gambochaman
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I would throw in a few bucks to have him join the dynamo
snowdog90
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deadbq03 said:

Louis botha said:

AGC said:

In the last 5 years la Liga has had at least once, 3 of 4 semi-finalists in the CL. Is that really not the best league that year? Also the run of Atltico, Real, and Barca In then CL championship has been impressive. When was the last time the PL did something similar?
Its pretty much universal knowledge that the Premier League is the best in the world has been for awhile.
Best in what? Team budgets? Number of white US fans? I'd gladly grant them #1 in both those categories.

The UEFA country coefficient has told a different story. The EPL is on the right track to get into first, but just two years ago, they were third, so to act like they've been dominant is a fiction.

La Liga has held number 1 for 6 years straight, and the past few years have been by very wide margins.

FWIW between the two leagues, I've got no dog in the fight. I'm an idiot who follows the Bundesliga.


Thanks. How about that? Louis was wrong again...

Nice to see 4 PL teams in the final 8 though.
Truvada_for_prep
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Like i said goons on Texags opinions don't really carry much weight but you Messi fan boys are dead wrong .

And the EPL for sure carries more prestige than the other leagues .


I will add the championship is better and tougher to win than some first division European leagues.

HTH
AGC
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aTmAg said:

Louis botha said:

Ronaldo has more hardware and performs when it counts lol you Messi fan boys .
Such as when Portugal won the 2016 Euro final while Ronaldo cried on the sidelines? Portugal is good without Ronaldo. Argentina is crap without Messi. Messi has been carrying them for about a decade.

You can tell who is better by the fact that when people talk about Ronaldo, they compare him to Messi. When they talk about Messi they compare him to Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, etc. Hell even Ronaldo himself banned the word "Messi" from his household and is fixated on chasing Messi's legacy.


Heard the GOAT was playing tiny Venezuela today. Undoubtedly he had at least a hat trick today, right?
aTmAg
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AGC said:

aTmAg said:

Louis botha said:

Ronaldo has more hardware and performs when it counts lol you Messi fan boys .
Such as when Portugal won the 2016 Euro final while Ronaldo cried on the sidelines? Portugal is good without Ronaldo. Argentina is crap without Messi. Messi has been carrying them for about a decade.

You can tell who is better by the fact that when people talk about Ronaldo, they compare him to Messi. When they talk about Messi they compare him to Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, etc. Hell even Ronaldo himself banned the word "Messi" from his household and is fixated on chasing Messi's legacy.


Heard the GOAT was playing tiny Venezuela today. Undoubtedly he had at least a hat trick today, right?
The only reason you can pretend Ronaldo is as good as Messi is because his national team is 20 times better than Argentina. Swap places and Messi would probably have multiple WC trophies by now.

No impartial person buys that Ronaldo is on Messi's level. Only girls (or gay dudes) who think Ronaldo is hot, Real Madrid fans, or morons like that. Just like no impartial person buys that Brady deflated his way to 6 Superbowl wins.
Gordo14
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AGC said:

aTmAg said:

Louis botha said:

Ronaldo has more hardware and performs when it counts lol you Messi fan boys .
Such as when Portugal won the 2016 Euro final while Ronaldo cried on the sidelines? Portugal is good without Ronaldo. Argentina is crap without Messi. Messi has been carrying them for about a decade.

You can tell who is better by the fact that when people talk about Ronaldo, they compare him to Messi. When they talk about Messi they compare him to Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, etc. Hell even Ronaldo himself banned the word "Messi" from his household and is fixated on chasing Messi's legacy.


Heard the GOAT was playing tiny Venezuela today. Undoubtedly he had at least a hat trick today, right?


Ronaldo definitely had a hat trick in his 0-0 draw vs. Ukraine played on the exact same day.
snowdog90
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It's really sad the lengths Messi haters will go. Somehow one loss to Venezuela in a friendly is supposed to change everyone's mind?
texagbeliever
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aTmAg said:

AGC said:

aTmAg said:

Louis botha said:

Ronaldo has more hardware and performs when it counts lol you Messi fan boys .
Such as when Portugal won the 2016 Euro final while Ronaldo cried on the sidelines? Portugal is good without Ronaldo. Argentina is crap without Messi. Messi has been carrying them for about a decade.

You can tell who is better by the fact that when people talk about Ronaldo, they compare him to Messi. When they talk about Messi they compare him to Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, etc. Hell even Ronaldo himself banned the word "Messi" from his household and is fixated on chasing Messi's legacy.


Heard the GOAT was playing tiny Venezuela today. Undoubtedly he had at least a hat trick today, right?
The only reason you can pretend Ronaldo is as good as Messi is because his national team is 20 times better than Argentina. Swap places and Messi would probably have multiple WC trophies by now.

No impartial person buys that Ronaldo is on Messi's level. Only girls (or gay dudes) who think Ronaldo is hot, Real Madrid fans, or morons like that. Just like no impartial person buys that Brady deflated his way to 6 Superbowl wins.


This has to be a joke. Rank of best players not messi or Ronaldoon the national teams. Aguero, Mascherano, Higuain, pepe, di Maria. 4 out of 5 are Argentineans.
snowdog90
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Pepe is Portuguese. Neither team is great. I would say arg is better but they are not close to what they used to be, back when they had guys like batistuta, Redondo, caniggia, crespo, Ortega, simeone. Studs and leaders.
texagbeliever
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Yes I know, he was one of the top 5 from both teams that has played past 5-7 years
snowdog90
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texagbeliever said:

Yes I know, he was one of the top 5 from both teams that has played past 5-7 years


Gotcha. My bad.
deadbq03
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Louis botha said:

Like i said goons on Texags opinions don't really carry much weight but you Messi fan boys are dead wrong .

And the EPL for sure carries more prestige than the other leagues .


I will add the championship is better and tougher to win than some first division European leagues.

HTH
There's no doubt in my mind that the EPL is the most prestigious league in the world... that doesn't necessarily make it the best. If you want to use big budgets and English media hype as your metric for best, by all means. I'd rather use the coefficient.

And I'll add this clarification: the EPL ought to be the best. They certainly are "on paper." But in actual competitions, that hasn't been the case, and that's what I choose to base my opinion of "best" on. It looks like the ship is turning and they could retake 1st in the coefficient in a couple years. This year and last year have certainly been impressive.
ac04
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wangus12
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ac04 said:


He's done that before. Nico Gaitan did it first




Also Messi got nothing for this wonderful little kick as well.

Smith&Co1970
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I think Hope Solo has control of Louis Botha's account.
2017 World Series Champions - Houston Astros
OregonAggie
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I think Messi is a better overall player but the margins are slim. Anyone saying that this topic isn't an argument should just be considered a fan boy of whomever they support.

The argument of which national team is better needs more clarification as well. Portugal has become a better team than Argentina in recent years but Argentina was a damn good side up till about 2 years ago. I think the losses in consecutive Copa finals and a World Cup final just destroyed the confidence of the team in the last couple years.

Portugal's run to the Uefa championship was probably the most uninspiring run I've ever seen, but folks probably don't remember. They didn't look great until the Semi and Final and I agree with the previous poster about how Portugal looked better as a team without Ronaldo. They've been great since that tournament though. Confederations Cup champ and in the first UEFA Nations League final group.

Either way, both players are phenomenal and have pretty equal resumes. I'd still take Messi over Ronaldo but that's just personal preference.
OregonAggie
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I think the top 6 in the EPL are better overall than the top 6 in any other league. I also think the overall depth of the teams in the EPL top to bottom are the best in Europe.

This years european competition is a bit of an abberation with 4 EPL teams in the CL quarters and 2 in the Europa quarters. That's 6 in all competitions and only La Liga has 3 (2 in Europa and 1 in CL). It'll be interesting to see if that continues next year but 4 is unlikely next year.

I think the investment in the EPL is finally paying off.
deadbq03
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I agree with all of that except your first sentence (and even that one is probably true this year).

There are really only two ways to assess league strength: continental competitions (UEFA coefficient) and team budgets. The weakness of the former is that it only assesses the strength of the top third or so of each league. The latter is a good way to measure prestige and individual player talent across the board, but doesn't necessarily mean that equates to wins on the field. So to the point of Top 6, without looking I wouldn't be surprised if the EPL #6 spends twice as much as the #6 from any other league... but if it doesn't translate into EC wins, are they really better?

Back on topic, I agree with your Messi/Ronaldo comments entirely. Any sane fan of the sport would clearly put both an an all-time Top 10 list... but I wouldn't characterize either as the GOAT.
OregonAggie
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Here's some data I found on the topic. The EPL salaries are from 18/19 while the La Liga salaries are from 17/18 for some reason so I would assume the La Liga salaries are a little higher than what's shown here.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/675303/average-epl-salary-by-team/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/675461/average-la-liga-salary-by-team/

The top 3 salaries from each league are comparable, but comparing the 5th team on each list we come up with this:

Sevilla - 3.05 million
Arsenal - 6.39 million

Comparing the 15th:

Gerona - .8 million
Fulham - 2.27 million

Cardiff City, the lowest salaried team in the EPL, has a yearly salary load of 1.26 million. This would be 11th in La Liga.

Because of the money being spent on the EPL, many regard it as the "best league" (which I agree it's the strongest league from a depth perspective). I'm with you on the fact that trophies are what the teams are after and Spanish league teams have won the last 5 or so. Last epl team to win was Chelsea in 2012...that's a long break. That's also why EPL fans claim the other leagues are top heavy while the EPL has more parody.

Kinda interesting when looking at the numbers.
snowdog90
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Again, I think Ronaldo is top 5 all time, Messi is the best I've ever seen. At 31, he is the best dribbler, best passer, and best scorer in the world. What else is there to say. He is a goal-scoring-chance machine. Ronaldo is an incredible finisher, but he cannot do the things Messi does.
jeffk
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Its almost like trying to compare amazing players at different positions is sort of a fruitless endeavor.
deadbq03
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While we're on the topic of sick chip shots, I'll add this one that I watched live yesterday.



(I promise I'll never start a thread for my irrelevant team/league, but I can do nothing but ask forgiveness in advance for sneaking things in to other threads whenever it's remotely on topic).
OregonAggie
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You're completely forgiven because that highlight was bad ass. I bet you jumped off the couch watching that.
snowdog90
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jeffk said:

Its almost like trying to compare amazing players at different positions is sort of a fruitless endeavor.


There is no comparison. Messi is better. That's my point.
deadbq03
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Thanks. And yes, I did leap off the couch. And usually I just give a quick "Yes!" when there's a goal, but this time it was a long "Woooooo!"
who?mikejones
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snowdog90
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I'm a little disappointed in the goat. He had several chances for a hat trick but had to settle for 2 goals and a hockey assist. Oh well...
AGC
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snowdog90 said:

I'm a little disappointed in the goat. He had several chances for a hat trick but had to settle for 2 goals and a hockey assist. Oh well...


Goat? The goat doesn't disappear in the quarters regularly and he definitely doesn't miss chilenas. Hell even bale has one.
aTmAg
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AG

snowdog90
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AGC said:

snowdog90 said:

I'm a little disappointed in the goat. He had several chances for a hat trick but had to settle for 2 goals and a hockey assist. Oh well...


Goat? The goat doesn't disappear in the quarters regularly and he definitely doesn't miss chilenas. Hell even bale has one.


This is just dumb. Yes, Messi is the goat.
Gordo14
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/sports/lionel-messi-champions-league-.html
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