Ozil quits German national team

2,578 Views | 22 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by wangus12
oragator
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http://www.espn.com/soccer/germany/story/3571587/mesut-ozil-retires-from-germany-after-political-tensions-over-turkish-roots
C Loves L
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While he's portraying them as "racist" and possibly there is some prejudice in this scenario. Like most things there are two sides to this.

The Turks are looked at in Germany like illegal Mexicans are here in the US. The Turks are flooding Germany and shout , "nazi" every time they don't get their way. Muslims are doing the exact same thing in Germany with the nazi stuff but being brazen by saying things like, "we will take your women and take over your country"

Like many do here in the US, the Turks and the muslims have found ways to manipulate those around them. It's a shame that events that happened over 70 years ago are being used as a way to manipulate.

If I lived in Germany I wouldn't be patient with muslims and a large portion of Turks either.
texagbeliever
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I don't agree much with this comparison. The Turks were invited by the Germans to help prop up the social system that requires both a growing population and a large low paying class. The Turks have largely failed to assimilate into German culture and problems have begun to rise from 2nd and 3rd generation Turks beginning to lash out against Germany and turn toward stronger Islamic beliefs.

The Turkish president is a sign of Turkey's move towards Islamic fundamentalism and is something many Germans oppose and fear. Giving validity to the Turkish president, by posing in a photo with him, gives validity to islamic fundamentalism. Especially in the eyes of the middle eastern youth in Germany.

That being said, i think Ozil quit the DFB because he got benched in the world cup, is 29, and won't accept a future role coming off the bench. Upset with how the German fans have turned on him, he decided to hit back at them by attacking them with this racism drivel.
C Loves L
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texagbeliever said:

I don't agree much with this comparison. The Turks were invited by the Germans to help prop up the social system that requires both a growing population and a large low paying class. The Turks have largely failed to assimilate into German culture and problems have begun to rise from 2nd and 3rd generation Turks beginning to lash out against Germany and turn toward stronger Islamic beliefs.

The Turkish president is a sign of Turkey's move towards Islamic fundamentalism and is something many Germans oppose and fear. Giving validity to the Turkish president, by posing in a photo with him, gives validity to islamic fundamentalism. Especially in the eyes of the middle eastern youth in Germany.

That being said, i think Ozil quit the DFB because he got benched in the world cup, is 29, and won't accept a future role coming off the bench. Upset with how the German fans have turned on him, he decided to hit back at them by attacking them with this racism drivel.


Out of curiosity, what makes you think the German population doesn't view the Turks in the sense I mentioned? I have family that's lived there since birth and some of them only know how to speak German. They specifically used the Mexican immigrant comparison to explain to me how the Turks are viewed there. I was told this over a year ago.

Unfortunately, the cousin of mine that told me this doesn't believe in any God
gig them
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C Loves L said:

While he's portraying them as "racist" and possibly there is some prejudice in this scenario. Like most things there are two sides to this.

The Turks are looked at in Germany like illegal Mexicans are here in the US. The Turks are flooding Germany and shout , "nazi" every time they don't get their way. Muslims are doing the exact same thing in Germany with the nazi stuff but being brazen by saying things like, "we will take your women and take over your country"

Like many do here in the US, the Turks and the muslims have found ways to manipulate those around them. It's a shame that events that happened over 70 years ago are being used as a way to manipulate.

If I lived in Germany I wouldn't be patient with muslims and a large portion of Turks either.

I appreciate the perspective you brought to this conversation, and this certainly appears to be an underreported side to the story.

However... I think Ozil's original point still stands. He feels he is often the first to feel the hate when things don't go well for the German team, and other high profile players (Benzema, Lukaku) have also made similar comments recently.

I will note that it appears to be a European (and not just German) problem.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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texagbeliever said:

That being said, i think Ozil quit the DFB because he got benched in the world cup, is 29, and won't accept a future role coming off the bench.
Here's the real answer. Not likely that he'll meaningfully start for the DFB in the future and not enough of a class act to bow out on top, move on with his club career, and mention something about future possibility of being involved in management after his playing career ends.
wangus12
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I wouldn't be so sure. He was benched against Sweden, but immediately back in the lineup the next match because without him Germany struggled to create anything. There isn't anyone else in that German team that creates opportunities like he does at the moment. Problem was nobody could finish worth a damn in that team at the cup. Still can't believe they left Sane at home. I think he'd still have a role in 2022 unless some undiscovered midfielder is found.




He has been the scapegoat for the World Cup failure when in reality it was the entire team that failed to show up and the amount of backlash that has fallen on just him was ridiculous. Especially in regards to everything surrounding the picture.
chjoak
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Not saying that this isn't atleast in part a cop out but I am reading stuff from several other boards (some with Euro posters) and Ozil has been having issues with racism from the top of the national team for years. There is documentation of him bringing it up for atleast 8 years. He is often referred to as Turkish-German but no one refers to Poldoski as Polish-German or Khedira as Tunisian-German or Boateng as African-German. In fact I just read a long post from a moderator on BigSoccer that is from Germany and based on everything he knows of the subject, he is siding with Ozil.

Re the Turkish Prez... given his political beliefs and their conflict with German culture, that may not have been a smart move. However. from what I read Ozil has met him and taken pictures with him several times in the past. The picture in question wasn't an issue until after Germany bailed out of the tournament early.

Sounds a lot like the German Federation decided Ozil would be an easy scapegoat when they couldn't fire Lowe right after extending him for 4 years.
Clever&FunnyAg
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Yeah, weird that the first couple of posts really took off on this board. A comparison between Turkish people and illegal (specifically Mexican) immigrants is a bit strange.

Ozil is the most technically gifted player of this generation of German players, and he feels can't represent Germany because of racism, including in the highest levels of the DFB. That's appalling and shocking from a major world-power in 2018. He likely wouldn't have been a starter at age 32 in 4-years time, but certainly would have contributed to that team. This isn't a fringe player crying racism to complain about his opportunities, it's a world super star retiring in his prime from a major international team.

He took a picture with a far right-winged leader in Turkey. He shouldn't have let that happen, however, the hate received far out-weighted the crime.
akm91
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Clever&FunnyAg said:

Ozil is the most technically gifted player of this generation of German players, and he feels can't represent Germany because of racism, including in the highest levels of the DFB. That's appalling and shocking from a major world-power in 2018. He likely wouldn't have been a starter at age 32 in 4-years time, but certainly would have contributed to that team. This isn't a fringe player crying racism to complain about his opportunities, it's a world super star retiring in his prime from a major international team.

He hasn't played up to his skill level for club and country the last couple of years.
Clever&FunnyAg
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Because of his body language?

This is a tired argument that doesn't hold weight. He created the 2nd most chances of anyone in the PL last year, only to De Bruyne. Created more chances per 90 minutes in the World Cup than any other player (5.5 per 90).

You don't sign Ozil to be a defensive midfielder.
TXAggie2011
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C Loves L said:

While he's portraying them as "racist" and possibly there is some prejudice in this scenario. Like most things there are two sides to this.

The Turks are looked at in Germany like illegal Mexicans are here in the US. The Turks are flooding Germany and shout , "nazi" every time they don't get their way. Muslims are doing the exact same thing in Germany with the nazi stuff but being brazen by saying things like, "we will take your women and take over your country"

Like many do here in the US, the Turks and the muslims have found ways to manipulate those around them. It's a shame that events that happened over 70 years ago are being used as a way to manipulate.

If I lived in Germany I wouldn't be patient with muslims and a large portion of Turks either.
Ozil was born in Germany, his family has been there for several generations. If he's being treated and viewed like an "illegal Mexican", then he might just have a beef.
OregonAggie
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Germany should build a wall to prevent this stuff.


What could go wrong?
akm91
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Clever&FunnyAg said:

Because of his body language?

This is a tired argument that doesn't hold weight. He created the 2nd most chances of anyone in the PL last year, only to De Bruyne. Created more chances per 90 minutes in the World Cup than any other player (5.5 per 90).

You don't sign Ozil to be a defensive midfielder.
Ozil's rated behind Aaron Ramsey (both are M @ Arsenal) in overall offensive stats 7.25 vs 7.27, despite Ramsey playing fewer matches. Heck, Ozil's not even in the top 20 when it comes to Offensive ratings.

Top 10:
Aguero
De Bruyne
Salah
Hazard
Kane
D. Silva
Sterling
Sane
Pogba
Fernandinho

I'd argue Ozil has the talent to be in the top 10 but he's underachieving.
texagbeliever
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Ozil is one of those players that defies stats. I think almost any arsenal fan would agree that his spacing is great and that he can play great balls. They'd also probably say he disappears easily in big matches. The fact he isn't ever going to put in a defensive effort doesn't endear him as well.
AustinScubaAg
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texagbeliever said:

Ozil is one of those players that defies stats. I think almost any arsenal fan would agree that his spacing is great and that he can play great balls. They'd also probably say he disappears easily in big matches. The fact he isn't ever going to put in a defensive effort doesn't endear him as well.
This is Ozil in a nutshell
wangus12
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Wrong board. My bad
texagbeliever
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C Loves L said:

texagbeliever said:

I don't agree much with this comparison. The Turks were invited by the Germans to help prop up the social system that requires both a growing population and a large low paying class. The Turks have largely failed to assimilate into German culture and problems have begun to rise from 2nd and 3rd generation Turks beginning to lash out against Germany and turn toward stronger Islamic beliefs.

The Turkish president is a sign of Turkey's move towards Islamic fundamentalism and is something many Germans oppose and fear. Giving validity to the Turkish president, by posing in a photo with him, gives validity to islamic fundamentalism. Especially in the eyes of the middle eastern youth in Germany.

That being said, i think Ozil quit the DFB because he got benched in the world cup, is 29, and won't accept a future role coming off the bench. Upset with how the German fans have turned on him, he decided to hit back at them by attacking them with this racism drivel.


Out of curiosity, what makes you think the German population doesn't view the Turks in the sense I mentioned? I have family that's lived there since birth and some of them only know how to speak German. They specifically used the Mexican immigrant comparison to explain to me how the Turks are viewed there. I was told this over a year ago.

Unfortunately, the cousin of mine that told me this doesn't believe in any God


I won't contend that germans might think the hispanic-illegal immigrants is similar to Turks; the fact is that they are two completely different situations. America is diverse and can better absorb and assimilate new cultures. Illegal immigrants were not invited, the Turks were. Illegal immigration is from largely catholic culture. There is a distinction between Hispanics and illegal-hispanics.
C Loves L
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TXAggie2011 said:

C Loves L said:

While he's portraying them as "racist" and possibly there is some prejudice in this scenario. Like most things there are two sides to this.

The Turks are looked at in Germany like illegal Mexicans are here in the US. The Turks are flooding Germany and shout , "nazi" every time they don't get their way. Muslims are doing the exact same thing in Germany with the nazi stuff but being brazen by saying things like, "we will take your women and take over your country"

Like many do here in the US, the Turks and the muslims have found ways to manipulate those around them. It's a shame that events that happened over 70 years ago are being used as a way to manipulate.

If I lived in Germany I wouldn't be patient with muslims and a large portion of Turks either.
Ozil was born in Germany, his family has been there for several generations. If he's being treated and viewed like an "illegal Mexican", then he might just have a beef.



1. His family is from Turkey,
2. He's proud of his heritage
3. Germans have issues with all things Turkey
C Loves L
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Clever&FunnyAg said:

Yeah, weird that the first couple of posts really took off on this board. A comparison between Turkish people and illegal (specifically Mexican) immigrants is a bit strange.

Ozil is the most technically gifted player of this generation of German players, and he feels can't represent Germany because of racism, including in the highest levels of the DFB. That's appalling and shocking from a major world-power in 2018. He likely wouldn't have been a starter at age 32 in 4-years time, but certainly would have contributed to that team. This isn't a fringe player crying racism to complain about his opportunities, it's a world super star retiring in his prime from a major international team.

He took a picture with a far right-winged leader in Turkey. He shouldn't have let that happen, however, the hate received far out-weighted the crime.



I'll have to turn you over to my cousin. He comes to the US every year for a vacation that's usually a month long. I never said anything to him about illegal Mexicans. When the topic of guns and muslims came up. The conversation drifted into muslims and Turks. His words not mine. He said they feel the same way about the Turks living in Germany as Americans do with illegal Mexicans. The Turks are unwanted and are ruining Germany. That's what he said.

Hes in his 20s and a educated professional.
TXAggie2011
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C Loves L said:

TXAggie2011 said:

C Loves L said:

While he's portraying them as "racist" and possibly there is some prejudice in this scenario. Like most things there are two sides to this.

The Turks are looked at in Germany like illegal Mexicans are here in the US. The Turks are flooding Germany and shout , "nazi" every time they don't get their way. Muslims are doing the exact same thing in Germany with the nazi stuff but being brazen by saying things like, "we will take your women and take over your country"

Like many do here in the US, the Turks and the muslims have found ways to manipulate those around them. It's a shame that events that happened over 70 years ago are being used as a way to manipulate.

If I lived in Germany I wouldn't be patient with muslims and a large portion of Turks either.
Ozil was born in Germany, his family has been there for several generations. If he's being treated and viewed like an "illegal Mexican", then he might just have a beef.
1. His family is from Turkey,
2. He's proud of his heritage
3. Germans have issues with all things Turkey
And thus 4) he just might have a legit beef about racism/xenophobia/whatever you want to call it.
TXAggie2011
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p.s. I (and probably others here)) have plenty of family in Germany and they're not all like your cousin.
Serotonin
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The Turks are unapologetic about genocide and have eradicated the native Christian populations from their country (Armenian and Greek). Now they have an ethno-nationalist leader.

This is not a recipe for a friendly relationship with a country which has tried to repent of its historical sins.
wangus12
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So Thomas Muller is basically saying there isn't racism in sports. This will end well.

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