https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2018/07/16/whats-killing-youth-soccer-in-america-is-also-hurting-most-every-other-sport/?utm_source=FACEBOOK&utm_medium=social&utm_term=Valerie%2F#148967f41ea8

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Over the past three years, the percentage of 6- to 12-year-olds playing soccer regularly has dropped nearly 14 percent, to 2.3 million players, according to a study by the Sports & Fitness Industry Association, which has analyzed youth athletic trends for 40 years. The number of children who touched a soccer ball even once during the year, in organized play or otherwise, also has fallen significantly. ...

The decline has been felt everywhere: recreational leagues in longtime soccer hotbeds here; high-profile traveling teams from Maryland to California; programs targeted at Latino and immigrant populations in South Texas. High burnout rates from pushing children into travel soccer too young as well as the high costs of programs have also contributed to the lower numbers. ...

The exodus of players in youth leagues has drawn recriminations over clubs and leagues that have pushed and profited from a "pay-for-play" model that has turned off parents and kept out talent from poorer, underserved communities.

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Hope Solo, goaltender for that defending Women's World Cup champion, recently weighed in on the money discussion, saying if she started playing today, her family would never be able to afford to give her the private training and elite-league experience that is an unstated requirement for reaching the top levels of the sport -- even at just the youth level. As the Times article points out, "Currently, American households with more than $100,000 in annual income provide 35 percent of soccer players, according to the Sports & Fitness Industry Association, compared with 11 percent from households earning $25,000 or less."

One argument in improving the U.S. men's soccer fortunes is to encourage more of a culture of pick-up play, as in other countries, and in the U.S., as in other sports, notably basketball, where America usually does pretty well. But with sports so organized at such early ages, squeezing out any who isn't dedicated, talented, physically gifted or monetarily endowed, pick-up culture in all sports is dying.

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Kids prefer video games over sports. Not to mention the 1000s of other options kids have to choose from today.

The stat that 35% of players come from households earning over $100k while only 11% come from households earning $25k or less supports a point I made on another thread that soccer is a rich kid's sport-for which I was thoroughly flamed. Hmmmmm.

We see it now in soccer and baseball. It looks like its starting to creep in pretty aggressively in basketball. And I think its just a matter of time until we see it in football.

The mentality may be that parents are willing to spend on the front end in situations where there is a reward (of a large professional athlete contract) to reap on the back end. It's just turning into another means to get stupid people to throw good money away chasing a pipe dream while the enablers get rich.

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The mentality may be that parents are willing to spend on the front end in situations where there is a reward (of a large professional athlete contract) to reap on the back end. It's just turning into another means to get stupid people to throw good money away chasing a pipe dream while the enablers get rich.

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Except for tennis, there's virtually no financial payoff in women's sport. So I guess all of us parents of daughters playing in pay-to-play sports (which is all of them, I dont know why soccer gets singled out so often) are just suckers?

And we are seeing similar situations in football with outside trainers, speed coaches etc.

who?mikejones said:

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Kids prefer video games over sports. Not to mention the 1000s of other options kids have to choose from today.

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and childhood obesity is on the rise...

My niece, now 24, played travel soccer and then volleyball as she grew up. She was a good high school volleyball player, and managed to be the captain of a very competitive club team at UCONN for her four years there.

As a single child of two parents both working for Lockhead Martin in a NJ Philly suburb, they were an upper-middle class family well able to afford the $2000+ required for the traveling volleyball leagues for the school year. That didn't include the travel costs. There was also the summer camps and the school sports during each fall.

This was six or seven years ago now. I'm sure all the prices have increased. I don't see how kids in less fortunate families or those from families with multiple children can afford that unless they are really affluent. It really seems a shame.

tysker said:

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The mentality may be that parents are willing to spend on the front end in situations where there is a reward (of a large professional athlete contract) to reap on the back end. It's just turning into another means to get stupid people to throw good money away chasing a pipe dream while the enablers get rich.

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Except for tennis, there's virtually no financial payoff in women's sport. So I guess all of us parents of daughters playing in pay-to-play sports (which is all of them, I dont know why soccer gets singled out so often) are just suckers?

And we are seeing similar situations in football with outside trainers, speed coaches etc.

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Maybe suckers is too harsh of a word. And I don't necessarily fault the pay-to-play system. It's just that at one point or another, you're paying for some version of a country club membership.

My fiance coaches at one of the top volleyball clubs in the country and their fees are usually around $5-6k before you include travel fees. Probably can tack on another 1500+ since they usually do 3-4 out of state tournaments and then Nationals.

I told her if we have a girl, she better hope she gets a massive discount for coaching there

blindey said:

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tysker said:

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The mentality may be that parents are willing to spend on the front end in situations where there is a reward (of a large professional athlete contract) to reap on the back end. It's just turning into another means to get stupid people to throw good money away chasing a pipe dream while the enablers get rich.

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Except for tennis, there's virtually no financial payoff in women's sport. So I guess all of us parents of daughters playing in pay-to-play sports (which is all of them, I dont know why soccer gets singled out so often) are just suckers?

And we are seeing similar situations in football with outside trainers, speed coaches etc.

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Maybe suckers is too harsh of a word. And I don't necessarily fault the pay-to-play system. It's just that at one point or another, you're paying for some version of a country club membership.

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I totally agree with the last statement. Our kids are simply following our lead as parents and we want our kids to find their passion regardless of long-term payout. For better or worse, our generation knows more about performance and training than any previous generation. Its kind of like a internship; what you learn mostly happens off of the field of play. And I dont think parents are generally naive of these issues. Many are but its already a conversation I've had about 20 times with other parents and most seem to understand the downside.

What I'm really getting at is you could even write the same article about all these 'Ninja Warrior' gyms and comps opening up for kids. My son does rock climbing as is on a rock climbing 'team' here in Dallas and even at 7 has a goal to make the Team Texas climbing team. Hard to deny your kid even though its likely he'll change is mind. Its just a different country club.

Also, as a former band geek, I still follow Drum Corps International competitions and to participate in those groups you spend ~$2k or more per year and that's just for 3 months of performances. Again just a different country club. Even School of Rock can easily be over $200 per month.

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My advice is to put that money in a 529 plan and have your kid play multiple rec sports and have fun.

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The better advice is to spend the time and money on tutors and PSAT prep with the goal of getting National Merit Finalist recognition and other scholarships. But as parent its kinda boring to watch your kid study all the time.

I'd echo that, at least around us, the majority of parents participating in this rat race know they are getting fleeced with no payoff. But it's their kid's passion and they fund it while fully aware it's pretty much a sinkhole of $$$.

But there are couple of loony bird exceptions. We know one family where mom seems to be trying to resolve all sorts of her own unfulfilled childhood dreams and resolving childhood trauma (mom is majorly fat with all sorts of self-esteem problems that she is very open about), to where she's so passionate about her daughter playing volleyball that she's basically said she has no idea what she'd do with her life if her daughter can't play college volleyball. Mom lives to watch those games. The kid is a soon-to-be HS sophomore and has spent the last 1-2 years dealing with constant knee problems (inflammation) due to the year-around overuse. Pretty decent player. Not a great player by any means. And her height will probably top out at about 5'8" or 5'9". Her mom is nuts.

The other is a softball family. I coached their daugher in rec from 1st-4th grade, and they've spent the past year in select (she's soon to be in 6th grade). This is a kid that really struggles in school and I know failed at least one section of the STAR test last year. But instead of hauling her for any tutoring (does nothing outside of school), they take her to hitting lessons, pitching lessons, etc. She's on a select team that is located in Greenville, TX. They live in Plano. Nutso. The parents divorced when she was in Kindergarten (although they get along and are both very involved with her), so I'm sure there is all sorts of complication behind why this is happening.

Lol. The only way my kids will ever be able to afford to play on an 'elite' club team is if I coach it.

Couple times (at U9 and U12) I have offered my son $200/month every month until he graduates high school and all he has to do is quit soccer. No club, no playground, no soccer at all.

He passed.

I'll happily continue to pay because honestly watching him play beats the hell out of any other sporting event I watch.

Granted now he (U15) is doing Boys ENCL so I might need to up my offer to $300/month to see if he will bite; I expect this year with increased travel to really hit the pocket book hard.

tysker said:

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blindey said:

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tysker said:

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The mentality may be that parents are willing to spend on the front end in situations where there is a reward (of a large professional athlete contract) to reap on the back end. It's just turning into another means to get stupid people to throw good money away chasing a pipe dream while the enablers get rich.

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Except for tennis, there's virtually no financial payoff in women's sport. So I guess all of us parents of daughters playing in pay-to-play sports (which is all of them, I dont know why soccer gets singled out so often) are just suckers?

And we are seeing similar situations in football with outside trainers, speed coaches etc.

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Maybe suckers is too harsh of a word. And I don't necessarily fault the pay-to-play system. It's just that at one point or another, you're paying for some version of a country club membership.

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I totally agree with the last statement. Our kids are simply following our lead as parents and we want our kids to find their passion regardless of long-term payout. For better or worse, our generation knows more about performance and training than any previous generation. Its kind of like a internship; what you learn mostly happens off of the field of play. And I dont think parents are generally naive of these issues. Many are but its already a conversation I've had about 20 times with other parents and most seem to understand the downside.

What I'm really getting at is you could even write the same article about all these 'Ninja Warrior' gyms and comps opening up for kids. My son does rock climbing as is on a rock climbing 'team' here in Dallas and even at 7 has a goal to make the Team Texas climbing team. Hard to deny your kid even though its likely he'll change is mind. Its just a different country club.

Also, as a former band geek, I still follow Drum Corps International competitions and to participate in those groups you spend ~$2k or more per year and that's just for 3 months of performances. Again just a different country club. Even School of Rock can easily be over $200 per month.

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My kid is too young for me to have dealt with the complication of what they really want being added into the mix, so I plead naivety/lack of experience on that front.

I remember some people I was in high school with doing the DCI thing. I thought they were completely crazy, but whatever floats your boat.

And I think we're on the same page about all of it. I don't know if it's a complaint or not, but it seems like pay-to-play has managed to creep into everything that could be a hobby or extracurricular activity. Are we just suckers for paying for it or are we getting something out of it? Is the return worth it?

I suppose I'm probably one of the last generations where in the spring, we played city rec league baseball and in the summer, we mowed the empty lot in the neighborhood for pickup baseball.

blindey said:

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tysker said:

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blindey said:

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tysker said:

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The mentality may be that parents are willing to spend on the front end in situations where there is a reward (of a large professional athlete contract) to reap on the back end. It's just turning into another means to get stupid people to throw good money away chasing a pipe dream while the enablers get rich.

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Except for tennis, there's virtually no financial payoff in women's sport. So I guess all of us parents of daughters playing in pay-to-play sports (which is all of them, I dont know why soccer gets singled out so often) are just suckers?

And we are seeing similar situations in football with outside trainers, speed coaches etc.

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Maybe suckers is too harsh of a word. And I don't necessarily fault the pay-to-play system. It's just that at one point or another, you're paying for some version of a country club membership.

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I totally agree with the last statement. Our kids are simply following our lead as parents and we want our kids to find their passion regardless of long-term payout. For better or worse, our generation knows more about performance and training than any previous generation. Its kind of like a internship; what you learn mostly happens off of the field of play. And I dont think parents are generally naive of these issues. Many are but its already a conversation I've had about 20 times with other parents and most seem to understand the downside.

What I'm really getting at is you could even write the same article about all these 'Ninja Warrior' gyms and comps opening up for kids. My son does rock climbing as is on a rock climbing 'team' here in Dallas and even at 7 has a goal to make the Team Texas climbing team. Hard to deny your kid even though its likely he'll change is mind. Its just a different country club.

Also, as a former band geek, I still follow Drum Corps International competitions and to participate in those groups you spend ~$2k or more per year and that's just for 3 months of performances. Again just a different country club. Even School of Rock can easily be over $200 per month.

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My kid is too young for me to have dealt with the complication of what they really want being added into the mix, so I plead naivety/lack of experience on that front.

I remember some people I was in high school with doing the DCI thing. I thought they were completely crazy, but whatever floats your boat.

And I think we're on the same page about all of it. I don't know if it's a complaint or not, but it seems like pay-to-play has managed to creep into everything that could be a hobby or extracurricular activity. Are we just suckers for paying for it or are we getting something out of it? Is the return worth it?

I suppose I'm probably one of the last generations where in the spring, we played city rec league baseball and in the summer, we mowed the empty lot in the neighborhood for pickup baseball.

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My daughter played Academy/select soccer from U10-U14 and I damn well got sticker shock from the cost of it but I signed her up anyway. If you watch Rec league soccer from U12 on, it's just really low quality and your kid isn't going to get the coaching quality club soccer offers.

I didn't sign my kid up because I thought she was God's gift to soccer and she was going to get a soccer scholarship in college. I did it because I grew up playing club ball and many of my favorite memories stem from that...in fact one of my former club teammates is an Ag that randomly posts on the board, which I think is pretty cool.

My daughter loved it but is now going into high school and she wants to focus on her grades and just play school soccer. That decision is saving me $2-3K this year so I'm in full support, but I would pay if she wanted to play for a club next year.


I will say that every damn thing my kids want to do seems to cost me at least $100/month. Violin lessons, basketball, soccer, art classes, gymnastics...**** is expensive.

Little league baseball by the time they are 10 has become a joke. It's very sad. Any talent at all, they run to some sort of "club league".

Two related anecdotes:

Daughter's select soccer coach told the players/parents the kids were going to need outside individual skills training (more touches, different set of eyes, etc). I wouldn't say it was 'required' but, well, you know... Anyways, within a week all the parents starting discussing the outside training options and come to find out, most every kid was already doing some sort of outside practice but the parents were keeping quiet about it. The two most common responses were relief that parents could now talk openly about it and find better, cheaper options and disappointment that some parents were hoping to stop the outside practice and the associated costs/time.

Second, neighbor's son is joining the sixth-grade band this fall and has been wanting to play drums the band for a while. When he went to the introductory instrument meeting, the band director told the family that all the percussionist slots had been filled by kids that had been getting lessons for months previous in preparation for the 'audition.' Basically, parents planned ahead and got their kids percussion lessons in advance of sixth-grade band instrument provisioning. Just crazy. (p.s. kid wound up with trombone which is just as good, imho)

LOL. The world has gone nuts. My wife lurks on NextDoor, and she showed me a post last week from someone seeking out a tutor to prepare their elementary school kid for the test they use to identify PACE candidates (Plano's gifted and talented program). The responses were encouraging though as the person was essentially shamed for seeking it out. Essentially "working harder to game the test" =/= "gifted and talented", so let the test determine whether they are gifted/talented naturally vs. gaming it.

DannyDuberstein said:

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LOL. The world has gone nuts. My wife lurks on NextDoor, and she showed me a post last week from someone seeking out a tutor to prepare their elementary school kid for the test they use to identify PACE candidates (Plano's gifted and talented program). The responses were encouraging though as the person was essentially shamed for seeking it out. Essentially "working harder to game the test" =/= "gifted and talented", so let the test determine whether they are gifted/talented naturally vs. gaming it.

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Good portion of teachers give the tests to their kids before the actual test...

Which comes from an entirely different set of motivations, and not necessarily in the best interest of the kids.

Its funny you mention that because my wife and I believe you can prep for any academic test, even the Cogat, Stanford-Binet, etc. Some would say its gaming, some would say its adding to the knowledge base.


edited to add: Getting your kids into GT programs may or not be beneficial, but its always important for parents to seek out the best and most appropriate special education programs available for their children. You wouldn't shame a parent for seeking remedial reading programs but for some reason parents are shamed when seeking access to GT programs...

My 10 year old- about to start 5th grade, made the U12 DA team for his club. The costs for club dues and travel for the competitive team have been high and DA will be higher with additional travel. But as a parent, what are we supposed to do? We have told him he can play rec league and try other sports again if he wants, but he was not going to turn down that offer to play on a US Soccer Development Academy team. He loves playing. He has worked hard and his reward is to have to work even harder for even more hours but he'll be wearing a USDA patch for the next year. We enjoy watching him play. I'm going to pay these dues.. if or when he decides he wants to stop or try something else, we'll pay for that too... daughter's gymnastics costs just as much. Lacrosse costs more. Baseball dads in my office pay even more than all of them with equipment, travel, private hitting coach, private pitching coach, speed & agility coaches, etc.

Sounds like you're letting your son take the lead on this decision based on how much he's enjoying it, which is a great approach in my experience. I'd just recommend making sure he knows up front what's going to change for him as far as practices, travel, teammates, playing time, etc (you may have already done all this). That way he goes into it eyes open and there aren't any huge surprises and regrets. And just keep your finger to his enjoyment pulse. As DA players get older, they start to realize how much they're sacrificing to play on the team (seeing their peers at school do other things they don't have time for has a huge impact). He might let you know when he reaches the point of not wanting that lifestyle any longer, but a lot of players feel guilty about leaving/quitting and possibly disappointing their parents so they stick with it longer than they enjoy it.

My son played competitive club team from age 9-12, he got sick of the travel and played football after that. He didn't kick a ball again until age 16 and made Varsity on a very good HS team as a sophomore and had he not got hurt playing football, the worlds worst sport, he would have made it as a freshman.

And those 'academy teams' are not worth the money it costs, they make all different kinds of names for them (developmental, pre-academy, ODP, Academy, etc), all have ONE goal, to take your money.

For girls, it's a little better as far as D1 opportunities. For boys, playing D1 soccer is a pipe dream at least in Texas.

It's a great game.

aggiepaintrain said:

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My son played competitive club team from age 9-12, he got sick of the travel and played football after that. He didn't kick a ball again until age 16 and made Varsity on a very good HS team as a sophomore and had he not got hurt playing football, the worlds worst sport, he would have made it as a freshman.

And those 'academy teams' are not worth the money it costs, they make all different kinds of names for them (developmental, pre-academy, ODP, Academy, etc), all have ONE goal, to take your money.

For girls, it's a little better as far as D1 opportunities. For boys, playing D1 soccer is a pipe dream at least in Texas.

It's a great game.

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It's all well and good to make your high school varsity team, but this is not accurate information to be putting out there.

PatAg- I'm all ears....

In my experience is what I should have said.
With the Houston Texans

One reason select activities are so expensive is that college is so expensive. Many parents are hoping to get scholarships for their kids. Usually the math doesn't work out, but parents think their kids are special. I paid a crap ton of money for my daughter's soccer, but I figured that I was paying for an education in teamwork, hard work, and all of that stuff. I lucked out on that my daughter got a full ride. So I ended up making a profit of sorts. But if college still cost as little as when I was at a&m, then demand would be less and the cost would be too.

Nice work on the full ride! Former colleague of mine has a daughter that got about half freight and cobbled together the rest in academic scholarships, but that world is apparently brutal. Just because you got one of the coveted spots on signing day doesn't mean you'll always have one. At least that is how it is explained to me. If you're a junior that contributes but some freshman superstar comes in out of the woodwork, that 75% ride can be cut to 50% to make room.

As for the men's game, it's becoming more apparent that the real route to becoming a pro is not through college but going directly to Europe at 16 if possible or 18 if not (or the MLS superdraft if you're a talent). I can't see the men's college game surviving all that much longer.

Since the money situation for women is different and (as I understand it) there are more scholarships to go around, parents with talented girls at least have a decent shot if the goal is cheap/free college for the kid.

My kids are too young for all of this so I've got a while to ponder how to approach it. But its going to happen at one point or another. This morning, my 15 month old woke up and started saying, "Ball? Ball? Ball? Ball?" to me and followed me around tapping my leg saying that until I found the size 1 ball I got him and gave it to him to chase around.

Saw this flash across my feed the other day. As a former HS coach and former and future club coach, I'm well aware of the club vs HS conflict and the myriad of reasons why some choose one or both of those avenues for development (and the Fed further complicates this with their policy of not allowing DA players to play for HS teams). Just thought this was an interesting metric:

Men:

Women: