Let's see if we can get another 5 goal on slaught

ScottishFire said:

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I hate NBC SportsGold

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same I just looked into it and was hoping there was an option to pay like 3.99 for just the game

Love love love this attacking pressing style of football we are playing! we would be top 3 right now if we had been playing this way all year.

And what better news to hear than Man City lost to Leicester!

But now Liverpool is in 1st

Been in first.

WE'RE GOING TO WIN THE LEAGUE

I'd take Man City winning the League again over the Scousers ever getting their 1st.

Pics or it didn't happen.

It's only my second best Christmas gift. The first got unwrapped early when you guys got Jose canned.

Oh my. Soccer is fun again.

Honest question: how much blame for the poor first half of the season do you place on Mourinho and how much do you place on your players? As a former coach, I get how much of a negative (or positive) impact a coach can have on his squad and their play/enthusiasm, but we are talking about professional at this level too. Mourinho was bad, no arguing that, but now much was this roster complicit?

Personally, I'm somewhere in the blame Mourinho 65 / 35 players range.

You're welcome!

jeffk said:

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Honest question: how much blame for the poor first half of the season do you place on Mourinho and how much do you place on your players? As a former coach, I get how much of a negative (or positive) impact a coach can have on his squad and their play/enthusiasm, but we are talking about professional at this level too. Mourinho was bad, no arguing that, but now much was this roster complicit?

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I place most of the blame with Mourinho.

75% Mourinho 25% players. There was definitely a negative feedback loop occurring.

Rashford is special. Nice choice on the jersey, math.

I second this. It's the managers job to get the best out of the players, and Jose was not doing that

mathguy86 said:

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75% Mourinho 25% players. There was definitely a negative feedback loop occurring.

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That seems pretty accurate to me. I know Mou will get another job but I'll absolutely question the decision making of whoever hires him. The guy just seems like an egotistical/narcissistic anti soccer coach.

I know Man U has been beating up on crappy teams since Ole took over but the overall feel of watching their games has changed dramatically. They actually attack. The players are putting forth effort and they look like they're having fun again.

I put that aspect 100% on Mou

I do think part of the dynamic is security-related. For example, Pogba knows he's more secure at MUFC long-term than Mourinho, so his effort was probably not 100%.

I know I fall into the trap of thinking that Liverpool players are as devoted to the club as I am as a fan, but their top priority is their own careers, and the interests of the player and the club aren't always aligned perfectly.

Mou wanted to win every game 1-0 and wanted to protect his defense at all costs. And he won that way. Won a lot.

Modern soccer has changed. Players today don't want to dedicate themselves to that style. It's hard and it's not flashy and it's not fun. Ironically OGS has the players working harder on the front end with an active high press than Mou did sitting back defending.

Mou had them terrified to make a mistake. That goal given up here at the end would have sent him into a tizzy. I got the feeling watching body language that everyone today was "whatever. We will get 2 more."

No doubt.

To compare to another sport, it's like if Mike Dantoni had tried to make the Suns, or the rockets, play Billy-ball. Hunker down and try to slug it out. Would have never worked. You can't make offensive minded players play defensive minded ball.

I think Mou can still be successful in today's football, just would need to be with a smaller club that has more defensive/blue-collar type of players. IMO

Billy Gillespie at Kentucky might be another good example of a similar situation.

jeffk said:

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Honest question: how much blame for the poor first half of the season do you place on Mourinho and how much do you place on your players? As a former coach, I get how much of a negative (or positive) impact a coach can have on his squad and their play/enthusiasm, but we are talking about professional at this level too. Mourinho was bad, no arguing that, but now much was this roster complicit?

Personally, I'm somewhere in the blame Mourinho 65 / 35 players range.

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IMO, in every human enterprise, whether it's team sports, a business, or a family, the buck stops at the people in charge. As a leader, it's important to instill a culture of ownership. Whether it's because you failed to install the culture, or failed to remove cancerous personalities, it is the leader's fault. It takes a pretty extreme personality from a follower to have it corrupt the entire culture. I highly doubt Paul Pogba, or any player at that level frankly, has a locker presence that is so terrible it can overcome efforts to create a winning culture. I think Mourinho benefited from having John Terry and Frank Lampard running his locker room at Chelsea. If he managed Man U when Scholes and Giggs were there, he probably would have had similar results. The fact that he can't seem to build a winning culture without hard working veterans setting the tone before he gets there is on him.

Ohhhh get in Rom!

He was off. But what a flick by Pogba.

mathguy86 said:

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He was off. But what a flick by Pogba.

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That is not a red card. Certainly not in the EPL. Mason got fooled and thought there was contact when there wasn't.

Dang, you've got to finish off these games with no more goals conceded and especially no bookings.
Now we'll have Jones starting next week.

joemeister74 said:

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jeffk said:

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Honest question: how much blame for the poor first half of the season do you place on Mourinho and how much do you place on your players? As a former coach, I get how much of a negative (or positive) impact a coach can have on his squad and their play/enthusiasm, but we are talking about professional at this level too. Mourinho was bad, no arguing that, but now much was this roster complicit?

Personally, I'm somewhere in the blame Mourinho 65 / 35 players range.

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IMO, in every human enterprise, whether it's team sports, a business, or a family, the buck stops at the people in charge. As a leader, it's important to instill a culture of ownership. Whether it's because you failed to install the culture, or failed to remove cancerous personalities, it is the leader's fault. It takes a pretty extreme personality from a follower to have it corrupt the entire culture. I highly doubt Paul Pogba, or any player at that level frankly, has a locker presence that is so terrible it can overcome efforts to create a winning culture. I think Mourinho benefited from having John Terry and Frank Lampard running his locker room at Chelsea. If he managed Man U when Scholes and Giggs were there, he probably would have had similar results. The fact that he can't seem to build a winning culture without hard working veterans setting the tone before he gets there is on him.

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100% agree but I think pro sports are a bit unusual in that often the star players earn much higher wages than the coaches so the power dynamic is a bit shifted. Lebron has more clout than any coach he plays for. Pogba is the same way. Coaches still get to put together lineups and dictate style, so they have a level of control, but I think they can easily be undermined by their players if they lose the locker room. I'm not looking to condemn or vindicate anyone at ManU, I just think it's an interesting phenomenon at the highest level of athletics.

WE'RE GOING TO WIN THE LEAGUE