Messi's international career is filled with failures so much so he quit after they lost to Chile come on man.

Yes I know he came back.

I'm a Real Madrid and Ronaldo fan, but can admit Messi is ever so slightly ahead in the GOAT category. I'm just grateful to watch GOAT v 2nd place GOAT over the last halt decade+ as I have.

I give major props to Messi for the moment he had today. Now hope we can win UCL to get a little bragging rights back.

datrixstunna said:

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Wow these messi fanboys are sensitive.

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says the ronaldo fanboy who was immediately triggered when he saw the Messi GOAT comment

gambochaman said:

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datrixstunna said:

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Wow these messi fanboys are sensitive.

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says the ronaldo fanboy who was immediately triggered when he saw the Messi GOAT comment

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Haha. That was an attempt to trigger you but it triggered everyone else.

well then, troll on

snowdog90 said:

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At the international level, Messi.has a U-20.WC championship and an Olympic gold medal. Portugal won Euro last year with CR on the bench. Have they won anything else with CR?

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Comparing Portugal to Argentina is not a fair comparison.

Argentina is supposed to win the world cup and international trophies. Portugal is not.

I agree that Messi is better but don't be silly when comparing the two players international results. Argentina has lost huge games as a direct result of Messi blowing it in crunch time.

Ronaldo single handed carried Portugal to that final last summer and should be given the bulk of the credit for them winning.

gambochaman said:

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single handedly?

portugal drew three times in group play, earning them a third place spot...Ronaldo scored two goals in the third game

then beat croatia in extra time with a goal from quaresma

then beat poland in penalties with sanches scoring the portuguese goal in regulation

ronaldo then scored one goal against wales in a game where the talent gap wasnt even close

then got hurt in the final and didnt play after the 25th minute

was he a factor? sure...but he certainly didnt 'carry' his team

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I watched all those games and he pretty much carried his team.

He was the runner up in the golden boot with 3 goals and 3 assists. He was fantastic in that competition.

snowdog90 said:

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My bad. in 150+ more games, Ronaldo has 31 more goals. Messi has 30+ more assists in 150+ less games.

I'm not saying Ronaldo sucks. He is obviously amazing, but he is already sliding out of his prime, rarely making those one-on-one runs at defenders with the ball at his feet like he used to do. Ronaldo has become more of a target man than a creator, as evidenced by his hat trick vs. Bayern.

Messi is still firmly in his prime, creating brilliant play after brilliant play, running at defenders with the ball on a string, as evidenced by today's game.

Messi is already ahead of CR in every category except goals, with 2 years less played and more prime years left. As good as Ronaldo is, he's not as good as Messi, and it seems pretty obvious to me.

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Messi is good but come on, these teams employ two contrasting styles. Ronaldo is often left up top for the counter attack without much support. He's had to change his game as he slows down and has done very well. We've used him this way since he came. Who is the real goal scoring threat outside of Ronaldo? Benzema? Bale?

La Masia of Messi's day produced some of the best generation Spain has ever seen (iniesta and xavi). They possess and produce far more opportunities for Messi with a chemistry that Ronaldo has never enjoyed with any of his teams. The idea that he would be nearly this productive (even assist-wise) on another team is naive.

Lastly whoever said Messi was classier must be joking. He's confronted at least one player with their family in the parking lot after a game. Maybe Ronaldo has done that but I've not heard of it.

t - cam said:

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gambochaman said:

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single handedly?

portugal drew three times in group play, earning them a third place spot...Ronaldo scored two goals in the third game

then beat croatia in extra time with a goal from quaresma

then beat poland in penalties with sanches scoring the portuguese goal in regulation

ronaldo then scored one goal against wales in a game where the talent gap wasnt even close

then got hurt in the final and didnt play after the 25th minute

was he a factor? sure...but he certainly didnt 'carry' his team

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I watched all those games and he pretty much carried his team.

He was the runner up in the golden boot with 3 goals and 3 assists. He was fantastic in that competition.

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we're going to have to agree to disagree on this...the only fantastic thing about that portugal team was its defensive effort

Ask Argentinians who is better...Maradona or Messi. Most will answer Maradona.

Why?

Because Messi screws the pooch every time he has a chance to win something of meaning with Argentina (no, the U-20 championship doesn't count) in spite of having one of the strongest international teams in the world. And frankly, he's largely disappeared in those finals where he could have broken the drought. And least disappeared by GOAT standards. And not recognizing the difference between Argentina and Portugal is ridiculous. That's like saying that Gareth Bale isn't world class because he hasn't won anything at the international level and completely ignoring the fact he plays for Wales.

Gun to my head, I'd say Messi is better but the desire just to dismiss Ronaldo as clearly inferior to Messi is laughable. It's an argument and a debate for a reason...because they are both amazingly talented players with a worthy argument for the title.

Dre_00 said:

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Ask Argentinians who is better...Maradona or Messi. Most will answer Maradona.

Why?

Because Messi screws the pooch every time he has a chance to win something of meaning with Argentina (no, the U-20 championship doesn't count) in spite of having one of the strongest international teams in the world. And frankly, he's largely disappeared in those finals where he could have broken the drought. And least disappeared by GOAT standards. And not recognizing the difference between Argentina and Portugal is ridiculous. That's like saying that Gareth Bale isn't world class because he hasn't won anything at the international level and completely ignoring the fact he plays for Wales.

Gun to my head, I'd say Messi is better but the desire just to dismiss Ronaldo as clearly inferior to Messi is laughable. It's an argument and a debate for a reason...because they are both amazingly talented players with a worthy argument for the title.

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To call Messi a "failure" because Argentina lost to an amazing German team in the WORLD CUP FINAL is just stupid. Portugal couldn't even beat USA in the group round of that WC and have been abysmal in World Cups with Ronaldo.

Messi carried Argentina to the Final in 2014. Portugal was a joke in the Euros, not even winning a game in the first round. They played better without him against France than they had played most of the tourney with him.

Ronaldo is incredible, among the top 4 in history. Messi is other-worldly. He does things never seen before, and he does them all the time, as if it's nothing. He is the greatest ever, and i would bet his numbers will be significantly better than CR's when they're both done.

gambochaman said:

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You know the sad thing is the end is not too far...we're in this blessed age that we get to witness these two incredible players....and we probably only have around 5-6 years left....enjoy it while it lasts folks

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gambochaman said:

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You know the sad thing is the end is not too far...we're in this blessed age that we get to witness these two incredible players....and we probably only have around 5-6 years left....enjoy it while it lasts folks

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So true. So gambacho, who wins the first post-Messi/CR Ballon do'or?

It will be fun to see the "next" great players, but I can't imagine there will be 2 like Leo/CR for a long time.

hard to tell..there's a lot of exciting young players that have a chance

neymar, dybala, asencio...and many more...I think it wont be as clear cut as it has been the past decade

gambochaman said:

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hard to tell..there's a lot of exciting young players that have a chance

neymar, dybala, asencio...and many more...I think it wont be as clear cut as it has been the past decade

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Agree with you on the many more. There's Mbape, Hazard, Lewandowski and Pulisic!

akm91 said:

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gambochaman said:

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hard to tell..there's a lot of exciting young players that have a chance

neymar, dybala, asencio...and many more...I think it wont be as clear cut as it has been the past decade

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Agree with you on the many more. There's Mbape, Hazard, Lewandowski and Pulisic!

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Don't forget dele alli. Such a special player.

Anyone have thoughts on whether CR and/or Messi will finish out their careers in the MLS like other European league superstars have done? You know..once their age catches up to them...move to the US to extend their careers a little etc? I sure hope so

but they also might go the China route to make $92875692836589236598276598237589237459 for a year or two

It's historically been considered a money grab for some of these guys but the perception does appear to be changing. Now I think these guys just view it as an opportunity to keep playing the game they love at a pretty high level. Obviously Messi and Ronaldo are amongst the richest athletes in the history of sport so the money aspect will have nothing to do with it.

No Messi will finish at his hometown club Old Boys. CR7 yes I could see him playing in Miami or LA.

I would bet money that CR7 signs for either LAFC or the Galaxy before he retires. That guy is made for LA.

Dre_00 said:

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I would bet money that CR7 signs for either LAFC or the Galaxy before he retires. That guy is made for LA.

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this are my thoughts exactly

In the GOAT debate, goals scored and assists being almost equal, I boil it down to this question: which of the two is more successful at making his teammates better?

carl spacklers hat said:

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In the GOAT debate, goals scored and assists being almost equal, I boil it down to this question: which of the two is more successful at making his teammates better?

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Messi

carl spacklers hat said:

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In the GOAT debate, goals scored and assists being almost equal, I boil it down to this question: which of the two is more successful at making his teammates better?

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Messi has more trophies in 150 less games. He has basically the same goals/assists in 150 less games. That's why it seems so obvious to me. It's Messi.

Eh. Messi's a better dribbler/passer, but is way too left-foot centric. CR7 does everything well and doesn't rely on one part of his game to succeed.

btw, Messi's career percentage goals with his right foot is around 17%...ronaldos goals with his left foot is 19%

so yeah...the difference in goals with their non dominant foot is negligible

AustinAg2012 said:

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Eh. Messi's a better dribbler/passer, but is way too left-foot centric. CR7 does everything well and doesn't rely on one part of his game to succeed.

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Way too left-foot centric??? Really??? That's what you see when you look at the dominance of Messi's career?

Maybe Messi should reconsider his strategy.
"Hmmm, I'm left-footed and my left foot is one of the most lethal weapons in the history of the sport, and no one person can stop me, and I score tons of goals with my left foot, but maybe I should use my weaker foot more."

Great plan.

Also, as gambacho said, his right foot is very capable when needed, but he is so good, so deceptive, so skilled, that even though every opponent knows he wants to use his left foot, they still fail to stop him.

gambochaman said:

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btw, Messi's career percentage goals with his right foot is around 17%...ronaldos goals with his left foot is 19%

so yeah...the difference in goals with their non dominant foot is negligible

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Actually, Messi's non-dominant foot goal rate is 14.4% (72 of 500) and goal rate by headers is 4.2% (21 of 500).

Messi goal breakdown

Ronaldo's non-dominant foot goal rate is 18.0% (92 of 501) and goal rate by headers is 16.6% (83 of 501)

Ronaldo goal breakdown

1. Relax.
2. Agree to disagree.
3. Again, eh. They're both great players, I'd just choose CR7's speed, deadly heading ability, and overall scoring versatility over Messi's dribbling and left-foot dominance.

No worries, I'm relaxed.

I'll take Messi's better stats, vision, creativity, quickness, speed, on-field demeanor, and I think he's a better teammate.

snowdog90 said:

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No worries, I'm relaxed.

I'll take Messi's better stats, vision, creativity, quickness, speed, on-field demeanor, and I think he's a better teammate.

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He's the soccer equivalent of a tech qb.

AGC said:

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snowdog90 said:

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No worries, I'm relaxed.

I'll take Messi's better stats, vision, creativity, quickness, speed, on-field demeanor, and I think he's a better teammate.

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He's the soccer equivalent of a tech qb.

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Yes, exactly. He's just like the Tech qb that won 5 Heisman's, 8 Big 12 championships and 4 national championships, among other things.

Which tech qb was that?