Van Basten proposes 10 potential changes to 'enhance' soccer

3,636 Views | 54 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Mathguy64
gambochaman
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I pretty much hate most of these:

1. MLS Style shootout instead of PK shootout....hate
2. No offsides - REALLY hate
3. Four quarters instead of two halves...hate
4. Penalty box...aka 'orange card'. player sits out 10 minutes for repeated fouls or bad fouls that dont quite amount to a red - dont super hate but dont like either
5. last 10 minutes the clock stops for any game stoppage. I actually like this as it would discourage the egregious time wasting we see currently.
6. Only captain can speak to ref. I do like this...i hate the ganging up on the ref that happens currently
7. Max number of fouls (the basketball foul out rule)...dont like unless its implemented where you have to sub that player
8. Cap players to a max number of games per year to increase performance and thus quality. This one i am not sure about
9. 8vs8 for kids and ages over 45...meh?!
10. More subs (i like this, particularly in ET) and substitutions hockey style without stopping the game (dont like)


what say you peeps? I personally like the game the way it is but I admit that I am very change averse...just seems like they want to 'americanize' the rules to be more like football, basketball, hockey
wangus12
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Quote:

1. MLS Style shootout instead of PK shootout-There is a difference
2. No offsides - They can go **** themselves on this one
3. Four quarters instead of two halves - See above
4. Penalty box...aka 'orange card'. player sits out 10 minutes for repeated fouls or bad fouls that dont quite amount to a red - Nope
5. last 10 minutes the clock stops for any game stoppage. - I'm ok with this
6. Only captain can speak to ref. This is supposed to be the way it is now and it doesn't work
7. Max number of fouls (the basketball foul out rule) - Dumb
8. Cap players to a max number of games per year to increase performance and thus quality. - Players want to play and they are well compensated for it. No max
9. 8vs8 for kids and ages over 45 - No because they youth side will bleed into the next level and old ****s need the exercise
10. More subs (If limited to ET situations, sure) and substitutions hockey style without stopping the game (This isn't a city league indoor game)
LondonOllie
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As in, Marco VanBasten?
TXAggie2011
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Seems like a lot of things to attempt to quickly break into new markets (The US) and for Van Basten to get his name in the history books as a reformer.....without putting in the long term hard work to grow the game.

I could behind some changes to the clock but the rest, nah, I don't think I can at first read. I guess the captain thing but that's about how it's meant to be now.
Old School Rucking
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gambochaman said:

6. Only captain can speak to ref. I do like this...i hate the ganging up on the ref that happens currently


I love those moments when an entire ****ing team surrounds the ref, and you know somebody is about to get screwed. ****ing brilliant!

Wrighty
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The no offsides is intriguing. It would lengthen the field and therefore open it up. So I think it is interesting.

Given that soccer players are whiny babies, I like the "only captain speaks to ref" idea.
PatAg
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Wrighty said:

The no offsides is intriguing. It would lengthen the field and therefore open it up. So I think it is interesting.

Given that soccer players are whiny babies, I like the "only captain speaks to ref" idea.
Never get rid of offsides unless you want to introduce an arbitrary blue line like in indoor soccer.

Most of these changes seem poor to me.
who?mikejones
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Soccer is great the way it is
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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gambochaman said:

I pretty much hate most of these:

1. MLS Style shootout instead of PK shootout NO. Not just no, but HELL no.
2. No offsides - If you really really really really have to change this rule, add a line at 2/3. Still hate.
3. Four quarters instead of two halves NO
4. Penalty box...aka 'orange card'. player sits out 10 minutes for repeated fouls or bad fouls that dont quite amount to a red Sounds like a good middle ground for
6. Only captain can speak to ref.Feel like this should be an automatic booking as-is
7. Max number of fouls (the basketball foul out rule)...only if it is a free sub
8. Cap players to a max number of games per year to increase performance and thus quality. bye bye international duty
9. 8vs8 for kids and ages over 45 pass
10. More subs maybe
gambochaman
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I personally love the offsides rule
It adds an interesting strategy element between the defense and offense, forcing players to be aware of where opponents are at all time
A perfectly timed pass and run that beats the offsides is a thing of beauty
Mr. White
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#6. YES!

Also, suspend floppers.


Refs will watch repeats of the game that day and suspend floppers and players that get away with anything they don't catch during the game.
rfvgy12
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Exactly A well timed pass is the yin to the defenses yang of compressing the middle third with a high line.

This is what makes soccer beautiful.

Can you imagine quality players with large spaces in the mid? ----- boring
gambochaman
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that team...pure magic
jeffk
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This idea. It is terrible.
AustinScubaAg
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I would love to see some tweeks to the offside rule but do not think you can eliminate it.
Mathguy64
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I'm fairly certain that the new and improved 2026 WC with 16 groups of 3 will have some form of end of match tie breaker. They have already said as much, because of the preponderance of 0-0 and 1-1 matches. They are worried about goal differential and goals scored will end all being the same. In the past if that ever happened it went to a coin flip. With groups of 3 it is much more likely than groups of 4, and they absolutely dont want coin flips to advance. So you really cant allow ties. I would not be surprised to something like end in a tie, go to KFTM, give 1 pt to the loser and 2 to the winner.
gambochaman
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at that point, we should change grass to ice, the ball to a puck, and the players can only touch the puck with a funny looking stick

and then change the name from soccer to hockey
Dwide Schrude
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Those are a bit extreme. In my mind you really only need three changes/additions:

1. Let the referee stop the clock at his discretion (substitutions, long fouls, arguments, etc.)
2. Red cards eject the player but a new player can be substituted; it does count against your three subs
3. All PK calls are reviewed
LeonardSkinner
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1. MLS Style shootout instead of PK shootout - Maybe replace the shootout, but not with the MLS style.
2. No offsides - Fine the way it is.
3. Four quarters instead of two halves - I don't hate it, if it's like a water break or tv timeout. Not a full on break like halftime.
4. Penalty box...aka 'orange card'. player sits out 10 minutes for repeated fouls or bad fouls that dont quite amount to a red - Too vague as is. Define a specific system of caution, suspension, and ejection.
5. last 10 minutes the clock stops for any game stoppage - Only goals, injuries, substitutions, and cards.
6. Only captain can speak to ref - Enforce the current laws.
7. Max number of fouls (the basketball foul out rule) - The principle is nice, but I don't think the execution will be satisfactory. Do #4 instead.
8. Cap players to a max number of games per year to increase performance and thus quality - Too subjective. And FIFA would get less money. Never happening.
9. 8vs8 for kids and ages over 45 - Let local leagues handle that stuff.
10. More subs and substitutions hockey style without stopping the game - Definitely need more subs. 4+GK, maybe. On the fly, no.
who?mikejones
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1. MLS Style shootout instead of PK shootout.. gross
2. No offsides - stupid
3. Four quarters instead of two halveshell no
4. Penalty box...aka 'orange card'. player sits out 10 minutes for repeated fouls or bad fouls that dont quite amount to a red - just no
5. last 10 minutes the clock stops for any game stoppage. maybe, but probably no
6. Only captain can speak to ref. no
7. Max number of fouls (the basketball foul out rule)... This ain't basketball
8. Cap players to a max number of games per year to increase performance and thus quality. whose to say how much a player can handle?
9. 8vs8 for kids and ages over 45 soccer is soccer. Should be same across all levels (except for young kids who should get as many subs as they want)
10. More subs no and substitutions hockey style without stopping the game hell no. I would only allow a free sub in case of head injury.

*I should note that I'm pretty much the same across all sports. I hate instant replay (especially in baseball). I hate reviews. I hate the DH. I hate domes.
PJD Ag 10
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Every one of these is so insanely dumb.
Mathguy64
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gambochaman said:

I pretty much hate most of these:

1. MLS Style shootout instead of PK shootout....whatever.
2. No offsides - Idiotic
3. Four quarters instead of two halves...what's the point?
4. Penalty box...aka 'orange card'. player sits out 10 minutes for repeated fouls or bad fouls that dont quite amount to a red - holy hell no. You have no idea how difficult it is to decide red/yellow for lots of calls. Now you want me to decide red/orange/yellow?
5. last 10 minutes the clock stops for any game stoppage. - stupid. Refs have watches on their wrists. They aren't hard to operate and we give stoppage time. In fact there are well established guidelines at high levels for how much to give. And it's not HS.
6. Only captain can speak to ref - Call the Laws on the books. The last Euro they told refs to clamp down and guess what? The players respected it becuse they knew upfront cads would be issued. This is a CONCACAF and CONMEBOL problem.
7. Max number of fouls (the basketball foul out rule)...There is a Law already. You get a max of 2 cards. And for minor fouls you get carded for PI. It's on the books. You would be surprised how many cards are PI.
8. Cap players to a max number of games per year to increase performance and thus quality. - Sure. They taking pay cuts?
9. 8vs8 for kids and ages over 45...already happens in USSF youth matches. And over 45 is local stuff and many local leagues play small sided. That has nothing to do with the big boys.
10. More subs - already being implemented in tourneys and you get 1 extra sub in ET.

PatAg
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I feel like the their needs to be another ref on the pitch, its too hard for one ref to be in the right spot all the time.
Mathguy64
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PatAg said:

I feel like the their needs to be another ref on the pitch, its too hard for one ref to be in the right spot all the time.


There need to be the 2 on the end line in pro leagues. AARs have shown themselves in high matches to be effective. But another with a whistle is a dual. And duals are worse not better. Now you have 2 people with different foul tolerances. And it shows.
jeffk
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Yep. I hate dual official games.
PatAg
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You are both refs though?
Mathguy64
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jeffk said:

Yep. I hate dual official games.


Nah. You just hate dual officials.

Seriously though they are really hard. Hopefully you have refs who have worked together a lot who know each other and call similar games in terms of tolerance. If not you have a royal mess. Then there are natural dead zones where neither guy can see well. On fast moving plays like counters up the middle or the far side I actually cut infield to give myself the positioning of a standard center ref. That way I see play from the same position I am used to and it helps cut down the far side dead zone. But to do that I have to give up the offside line. It's a trade off.
Mathguy64
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PatAg said:

You are both refs though?


Yes. I am. USSF and TASO.
jeffk
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Haha, yeah I know it sucks for the officials too. Any time we get stuck with two officials I make peace with the fact that we'll miss a couple key offside calls either direction. It's made worse when the two guys aren't on the same page call-wise.
Mathguy64
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You mean you don't like it when one guy raises his arms yelling advantage and his partner blows the whistle and points for a foul going the other direction?
LeonardSkinner
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I'm probably in the minority, but I like duals. When the refs are on the same page and are fully into the match.
Zombie Jon Snow
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gambochaman said:

I pretty much hate most of these:

1. MLS Style shootout instead of PK shootout....hate
2. No offsides - REALLY hate
3. Four quarters instead of two halves...hate
4. Penalty box...aka 'orange card'. player sits out 10 minutes for repeated fouls or bad fouls that dont quite amount to a red - dont super hate but dont like either
5. last 10 minutes the clock stops for any game stoppage. I actually like this as it would discourage the egregious time wasting we see currently.
6. Only captain can speak to ref. I do like this...i hate the ganging up on the ref that happens currently
7. Max number of fouls (the basketball foul out rule)...dont like unless its implemented where you have to sub that player
8. Cap players to a max number of games per year to increase performance and thus quality. This one i am not sure about
9. 8vs8 for kids and ages over 45...meh?!
10. More subs (i like this, particularly in ET) and substitutions hockey style without stopping the game (dont like)


what say you peeps? I personally like the game the way it is but I admit that I am very change averse...just seems like they want to 'americanize' the rules to be more like football, basketball, hockey
It depends what you are trying to do

I've been saying for a while that they need to change the MLS rules to appeal to an American audience and they could do it without fundamentally changing the game. The NBA is different than FIBA rules and yet players are able to adapt and play the other way for Olympics and vice versa when international players come to the NBA.


For MLS and American viewers I think some changes would be great.

For international good luck on that. But the MLS by changing the rules could be a proving ground for some of these rules and then they might make their way into the international game. And over time they might become more common then.

Personally I would change these - for MLS - and then see how they work out.

OFFSIDES - I would not eliminate it, but it is challenging to get right at times. I'm not sure I'd get rid of it completely. I don't want the long ball just dumped in from far out to anyone anywhere. The field is too big to cover alll the ground. But something like what hockey has would be good. Simply establish a blue line in effect and do not allow 2 line passes and that stops sending it deep from the other side of midfield.

FOUR QUARTERS - I have no problem with this if clock changes go with it.

CLOCK - perhaps this last 10 minutes thing is ok with stoppage for OB, Offsides, Penalties, Subs, etc. I had previously thought an American style clock counting down, not up, and for only 30 minutes per half (thats about how much action there is outside all the stoppages including OB, setting up for throw ins, goal and corner kicks, etc.). One way or the other. I finite ending is preferred. No extra time bogus estimate is needed.

SUBS - the formality of the subs is so overblown and slows play as well. Hockey style subs for up to 3 players throughout the game. Keeps people fresher let's you have some strategy, etc. And 3 actual subs for injury or penalty ejection (see PENALTIES) or any reason at all but once those are made they cannot return to the game.

PENALTIES - 3 common penalties results in a 5 minute penalty box, 5 common penalties results in an ejection or fouling out (that can be subbed for). Major (yellow card) penalties are an automatic 10 minute penalty box as well as counting as a common foul. 2nd major (yellow) also results in immediate ejection (Red card). Red card penalties are an automatic ejection that cannot be subbed for.

OVERTIME/SHOOTOUT - with the added subs there should be no problem playing an extra 15 minute overtime when tied. After that a penalty kick shootout similar to hockey for the extra point. Wins are 3 points, ties are 1 point each and an extra point to the shootout winner. So all games have 3 points awarded.

Whether you like them or not I can tell you that would appeal to American audiences much more.

Dwide Schrude
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Why do we care about appealing to the American audience? I thought we were past that. Is it because money?

Implementing what you wrote would ensure MLS status as a gimmicky league. No players worth their salt would want to play here.
AG@RICE
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The MLS doesn't need to implement gimmicks, they just need to produce better soccer. Nothing else will work.
powerbelly
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Quote:

6. Only captain can speak to ref.
This is the only one I like. It works well in rugby and I see no reason not to have it in soccer.
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