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2017 FSU Warning

7,203 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Ashes4Trees
Ugly
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AG
I still remember a comment from an FSU fan when we hired Jimbo on what to expect. I wish I could find the original, but it appears to be lost to the ether. The highlights (good, bad, and neutral) based on my poor, faulty memory are below:

  • His recruiting at FSU was excellent, and he would likely improve Texas A&M's recruiting substantially.
  • He wanted more facilities/upgrades than FSU was willing to provide at the time, which wasn't likely to be a problem for Texas A&M.
  • He ran a very TOP-oriented offense (considered a bit outdated even at that time), consistently having one of the longest delays until snap in the nation.
  • He was very conservative, very rarely going for it on fourth down, executing trick plays, etc.
  • His offense focused heavily on the TE (a position we had almost forgot existed by the end of Sumlin's tenure)
  • He was too loyal to his assistant coaches, rarely firing individuals for poor performance. This led to a gradual decrease in quality of assistant coaches as FSU's better assistant coaches were promoted away by other schools and those performing poorly stuck around.
  • His offensive line recruiting left the FSU OL depleted after several years.

GasE1
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When we hired Jimbo, I cringed that we would hire another "also ran" coach from some other team. To me, I saw Jimbo as a one trick pony who achieved a national championship with someone else's recruits. The FSU team declined after that championship year and when Jimbo left, the team did not have a depth of talent and FSU's program was in shambles. Unfortunately, I think that this is what we are looking at.

Unfortunately, this has been the track record of coaches since RC Slocum, either recruit well or coach well, but not both. Franchione did well with RC's recruits, but could not really recruit the best talent to continue building. Mike Sherman did well in recruiting, but his offense and defense schemes were apparently too difficult to work at the college level as they were difficult to learn. Sumlin had a one-year wonder as he benefited from the talent left by Sherman. I would say Kingsbury was the magic behind Sumlin. Sumlin's poor management drove off more talent than he could recruit and backfill the holes. His poor coaching performance after the Kingsbury/Manziel year put him to pasture and A&M paying a hefty sum.

Jimbo has NO excuse. These are all his recruits and he should have some depth to fill in roles vacated by graduation, injury and the like based on the talent A&M has been able to secure during his tenure. Jimbo is an awesome recruiter at the moment, but if he does not get this team to play better, top recruits are going to look elsewhere. What I foresee is A&M will have a mediocre year this year and the recruiting for this year's class will be a big drop-off unless Jimbo can get this ship righted...and that doesn't look likely. Jimbo will get one or two more years to show he can coach to a 10 win season, after that he will be out and A&M will be looking for a head coach and paying off another big contract ...AGAIN. Jimbo has plenty of talent, but they are not playing as a team, but rather as a bunch of individuals and that is a coaching problem.

We need to stop looking at the older coaches who are showing they can turn around a program with existing talent and look for a young, upcoming coach. Take a gamble instead of trying to buy your way to success like we have done with the last number of coaches. Find someone who can take 3 and 4 star talent and coach them as a team to play like 5 star talent...that's coaching!
northeastag
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AG
I look at coaches needing to be successful in three areas

1. Team building. This was basically all recruiting until a few years ago, but with the advent of immediate play transfer, it's the two combined. Jimbo is top flight recruiting high school kids, but weak in the portal and weak in keeping his more senior players around. It's why we are perpetually young and seem to have holes on the team.

2. Scheme and game planning. Jimbo is atrocious at this. His offense is almost legendarily bad and his teams frequently come out looking unprepared and disoriented, especially at the beginning of the season.

3. Game management. He's probably average in this area. Play calling and management of the offense is particularly bad, but he does do a good job on a lot of occasions of making adjustments. It's rare that a game gets totally out of control


The best coaches, and those that win championships, have to be successful in all three phases. It's hard to say that Jimbo is particularly good in any area. It's also hard to say that after many years of doing things "his way" he is likely to change.

Ok. Rant over.
Craigy
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We are easily a top 25 program with former student support, facilities , Aggie network with any average or slightly below average coach. We should be able to (almost) mail in a top 25 recruiting class. With a good coach we are consistently competing or very close to top of the SEC West. With an elite coach we are in the SEC title game every 3 years and top 10 program. How many years has Day been a head coach? Where would this team be with him as head coach?
DallasAg 94
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Fisher left FSU because he had to share the practice field with other teams, including the soccer team... he had to schedule the field.

If Fisher sucked... or they thought he sucked... they would have fired him.

Slowing the clock down and the game seems to work for Alabama, et al. When you play in the SEC, depth in the DL is critical. Less so, if you slow the game down.

Complain all you want, but it is silly. Ask your FSU fan how he felt about the revolving door FSU has had at head coach.

Jimbo went:
14-0
13-1
10-3
10-3
7-6

Taggart
5-7
6-7

Norvell
3-6
5-7
4-1 : Ws: Duquesne, LSU (24-23), @ Louisville (35-31), v BC. Loss to #22 Wake
Next up @14 NCSt, v #5 Clemson

Norvell was #19 in recruiting 2022 with an average class.

A sampling of OL at FSU under Jimbo

2016
Dickerson (OT) 4Star, #31 Ntl, #4 OT
Johnson (OC) 4Star, #43, #1
Williams (OT) 4Star, #167, #16
Ball (OT) 4Star, #194, #19
Arnold (OT): Transfer
Boselli (OG): 3Star, #726, #31

2015
Bello (OT) 4Star, #96, #4
Robbins (OG) 3Star, 202, 29
Minshew (OG) 3Star, 539, 35

2014 (8)
Johnson (OT) 4Star, 123, 13
Mavety (OT) 4Star transfer
Martinez (OG) 4Star, 235, 14
Eberle (OC) 3Star, 457, 4
Ruble (OT) 3Star, 513, 43
Kelly (OT) 3Star, 576, 54
Frith (OT) 3Star, 701, 62
Gabbard (LS) 2Star, #4 LS

NFL Draft:
2018: Leonard (OT) 4th Rd
2017: Johnson (OT) 5th Rd
2015: Erving (C) 1st Rd, Tre' Jackson (G), 4th Rd, Hart (OT), 7th Rd
Bryanisbest
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AG
GasE1 said:

When we hired Jimbo, I cringed that we would hire another "also ran" coach from some other team. To me, I saw Jimbo as a one trick pony who achieved a national championship with someone else's recruits. The FSU team declined after that championship year and when Jimbo left, the team did not have a depth of talent and FSU's program was in shambles. Unfortunately, I think that this is what we are looking at.

Unfortunately, this has been the track record of coaches since RC Slocum, either recruit well or coach well, but not both. Franchione did well with RC's recruits, but could not really recruit the best talent to continue building. Mike Sherman did well in recruiting, but his offense and defense schemes were apparently too difficult to work at the college level as they were difficult to learn. Sumlin had a one-year wonder as he benefited from the talent left by Sherman. I would say Kingsbury was the magic behind Sumlin. Sumlin's poor management drove off more talent than he could recruit and backfill the holes. His poor coaching performance after the Kingsbury/Manziel year put him to pasture and A&M paying a hefty sum.

Jimbo has NO excuse. These are all his recruits and he should have some depth to fill in roles vacated by graduation, injury and the like based on the talent A&M has been able to secure during his tenure. Jimbo is an awesome recruiter at the moment, but if he does not get this team to play better, top recruits are going to look elsewhere. What I foresee is A&M will have a mediocre year this year and the recruiting for this year's class will be a big drop-off unless Jimbo can get this ship righted...and that doesn't look likely. Jimbo will get one or two more years to show he can coach to a 10 win season, after that he will be out and A&M will be looking for a head coach and paying off another big contract ...AGAIN. Jimbo has plenty of talent, but they are not playing as a team, but rather as a bunch of individuals and that is a coaching problem.

We need to stop looking at the older coaches who are showing they can turn around a program with existing talent and look for a young, upcoming coach. Take a gamble instead of trying to buy your way to success like we have done with the last number of coaches. Find someone who can take 3 and 4 star talent and coach them as a team to play like 5 star talent...that's coaching!



20/50 hindsight
Gigem
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GasE1 said:

When we hired Jimbo, I cringed that we would hire another "also ran" coach from some other team. To me, I saw Jimbo as a one trick pony who achieved a national championship with someone else's recruits. The FSU team declined after that championship year and when Jimbo left, the team did not have a depth of talent and FSU's program was in shambles. Unfortunately, I think that this is what we are looking at.

Unfortunately, this has been the track record of coaches since RC Slocum, either recruit well or coach well, but not both. Franchione did well with RC's recruits, but could not really recruit the best talent to continue building. Mike Sherman did well in recruiting, but his offense and defense schemes were apparently too difficult to work at the college level as they were difficult to learn. Sumlin had a one-year wonder as he benefited from the talent left by Sherman. I would say Kingsbury was the magic behind Sumlin. Sumlin's poor management drove off more talent than he could recruit and backfill the holes. His poor coaching performance after the Kingsbury/Manziel year put him to pasture and A&M paying a hefty sum.

Jimbo has NO excuse. These are all his recruits and he should have some depth to fill in roles vacated by graduation, injury and the like based on the talent A&M has been able to secure during his tenure. Jimbo is an awesome recruiter at the moment, but if he does not get this team to play better, top recruits are going to look elsewhere. What I foresee is A&M will have a mediocre year this year and the recruiting for this year's class will be a big drop-off unless Jimbo can get this ship righted...and that doesn't look likely. Jimbo will get one or two more years to show he can coach to a 10 win season, after that he will be out and A&M will be looking for a head coach and paying off another big contract ...AGAIN. Jimbo has plenty of talent, but they are not playing as a team, but rather as a bunch of individuals and that is a coaching problem.

We need to stop looking at the older coaches who are showing they can turn around a program with existing talent and look for a young, upcoming coach. Take a gamble instead of trying to buy your way to success like we have done with the last number of coaches. Find someone who can take 3 and 4 star talent and coach them as a team to play like 5 star talent...that's coaching!
So much wrong with this post.



Fran won 4 games his first season, and the team completely quit in a few games. 77-0, remember? They completely laid down and quit. Too many more to mention, but Fran certainly did not win with RC's recruits. Many of RC's guys he ran off in the first year or two.

Sherman was a great recruiter, but he was a horrible game day coach. Knew how to start games, couldn't finish. A blind man could see that JJ wasn't right in 2010, balls thrown up like wounded ducks and the guy catching passes is still starting in the NFL.

BTW, Fran had several great recruiting classes, including signing Tannehill and Von Miller among others. Lots didn't pan out, and some they failed to develop.

Sumlin, really not a bad coach. He will never be able to shake the label that Manziel made him, and not vice versa. He's dead even with Jimbo in job performance after 5 years. Good, sometimes great, sometimes bad.

We hired the man to do a job,a job he had done well at the highest level, at a top flight program. We're not top flight, and other than a few years of excellence we have a long, long way to go. Ask yourself when the last time this program has strung together a few great seasons in a row? Sure, we've won 11 games a few times here and there, but never twice in a row. For decades. Since the early 90's at least. And those programs were something of a fraud, playing in the SWC.

I believe one of the reasons why we paid so much to Jimbo for so long is so we can't do what we've done in the past and interfere with the program. We gave him a job, accepted his terms. We need to let it play out, however that happens. If he wants a OC, he needs to decide that for himself.
Teslag
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AG
Quote:

To me, I saw Jimbo as a one trick pony who achieved a national championship with someone else's recruits. The FSU team declined after that championship year


Jimbo won a national title in his fourth year, with his recruits.

After his national title he won another conference championship, made the playoffs, and had 3 more ten plus win seasons in a row.

If you can't get basic facts right the rest of your post is probably made up dog **** too
rootube
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AG
It would have been more impressive (and useful) if this FSU fan would have predicted how poorly their next coach after Jimbo would have been.
Hellcat64
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AG
Teslag said:

Quote:

To me, I saw Jimbo as a one trick pony who achieved a national championship with someone else's recruits. The FSU team declined after that championship year


Jimbo won a national title in his fourth year, with his recruits.

After his national title he won another conference championship, made the playoffs, and had 3 more ten plus win seasons in a row.

If you can't get basic facts right the rest of your post is probably made up dog **** too


5th year at A&M.and he hasn't even won an SEC West division title. Fisher was a lucky lottery winner in 2013, and nothing more.
Teslag
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AG
And in 2012, the year before Jameis when he won 12 games, a conference championship, and the orange bowl what was he then?
Eagle78
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It's a relative straight forward fix: simplify the offense. These kids are not in the NFL so quit running a complicated NFL offense.
Ashes4Trees
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Here is a partial list of schools that would fire their current head coach tomorrow to hire Jimbo- if he were available:

FSU
Florida
LSU
Auburn
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Texas

This list would go on. Ask your FSU friend about life after Jimbo.
So, so you think you can tell Heaven from hell
Blue skies from pain Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail? A smile from a veil?

Do you think you can tell? Did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?

Hot ashes for trees?
PanTangTyger
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LSU? lol

Smoke another bowl to Darkside.
Teslag
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AG
PanTangTyger said:

LSU? lol

Smoke another bowl to Darkside.

Kelly was their fall back when they couldn't get Jimbo.
northeastag
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AG
Ashes4Trees said:

Here is a partial list of schools that would fire their current head coach tomorrow to hire Jimbo- if he were available:

FSU
Florida
LSU
Auburn
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Texas

This list would go on. Ask your FSU friend about life after Jimbo.
Total crap. Every school on this list has replaced (or is currently replacing) their HC since Jimbo got here. They could have lured him away for the right price. They're just smarter than us.
dcg4403
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AG
"5th year at A&M.and he hasn't even won an SEC West division title. Fisher was a lucky lottery winner in 2013, and nothing more."

Sorry folks but at this point I believe this to be the only feasible answer. Jimbo is not a bad coach. He just isn't a great coach. And he is a VERY poor OC.

He caught lightening in a bottle with Winston. He is playing the same hope game but trying to do it with very young players that likely will never have the experience needed to be successful in an offense that is far past its due date.

Our ONLY hope is Jimbo has some uncanny ability like Saban to reinvent himself. And honestly, I do not think Jimbo has this ability given the same speak after 5 years with very similiar results.
oklaunion
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After having a couple of stud tight ends and utilizing them the past 4 years, are we back to forgetting how to use one?
12Power
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It looks that we have forgotten how to use a tight end. We had 11 yards passing in the first half Saturday. How hard is it to toss a ball 10 yards right in the middle of the field? Also, it would happen faster than it would take the defense to get to our qb.
Teslag
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AG
dcg4403 said:

"5th year at A&M.and he hasn't even won an SEC West division title. Fisher was a lucky lottery winner in 2013, and nothing more."

Sorry folks but at this point I believe this to be the only feasible answer. Jimbo is not a bad coach. He just isn't a great coach. And he is a VERY poor OC.

He caught lightening in a bottle with Winston. He is playing the same hope game but trying to do it with very young players that likely will never have the experience needed to be successful in an offense that is far past its due date.

Our ONLY hope is Jimbo has some uncanny ability like Saban to reinvent himself. And honestly, I do not think Jimbo has this ability given the same speak after 5 years with very similiar results.

Again, in 2012, the year before he had winston he won 12 games, a conference title, and a BCS bowl.
bkaggies95
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AG
12Power said:

It looks that we have forgotten how to use a tight end. We had 11 yards passing in the first half Saturday. How hard is it to toss a ball 10 yards right in the middle of the field? Also, it would happen faster than it would take the defense to get to our qb.
We have two tight ends that aren't Freshman and neither one of them are playmakers. We didn't forget, we just can't find one.....If y'all compare our roster by class breakdown to Alabama, it is clear along with all the other things everyone is saying why we are where we're at right now.
Ugly
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AG
oklaunion said:

After having a couple of stud tight ends and utilizing them the past 4 years, are we back to forgetting how to use one?
Wydermeyer spent half a season being almost non-existent before he became a steady contributor. Donovan Green seems like he is getting better week by week.
AgBandsman
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AG
12Power said:

It looks that we have forgotten how to use a tight end. We had 11 yards passing in the first half Saturday. How hard is it to toss a ball 10 yards right in the middle of the field? Also, it would happen faster than it would take the defense to get to our qb.
Jimbo has already said this year that he needs tight ends to block well in order to utilize them in the passing games. Sounds like our tight ends are just not blocking well, and so this leads them to not get the separation needed to throw to the tight ends. a well blocking tight end allows the defense to bite on the block instead of the route he's about to run for an open pass.
Ashes4Trees
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You have a short memory. LSU tried everything to hire him 9 months ago.

I know you are angry. Take a deep breath and give this 2-3 weeks.
So, so you think you can tell Heaven from hell
Blue skies from pain Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail? A smile from a veil?

Do you think you can tell? Did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?

Hot ashes for trees?
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