Bet they wish they had those 4 invites back. Could have easily had the zona schools. Would have been a viable conference
Do-over for Big 12…
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Last: 1 yr ago by 20ag07
They still can have them if they want.
why are you acting as if UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston are chopped liver?Lake08 said:
Bet they wish they had those 4 invites back. Could have easily had the zona schools. Would have been a viable conference
Cincy was in the freaking semifinals last year.
Arizona has gone 1-20 the last two seasons
I don't think so. Conferences need AT LEAST 14 teams to be in line with everyone else now. They currently sit at 12, and if the B1G does indeed continue to snag a few more like the Washingtons and Oregons, the Big 12 can at least get the Arizonas, Utah, and Colorado and make it up to 16, which is par.
If they could have the oregons and washingtons, I think they would happily take them, but I doubt UO wants to take their quality brand to that B tier conference.
If they could have the oregons and washingtons, I think they would happily take them, but I doubt UO wants to take their quality brand to that B tier conference.
Tempe12
Watch roc nation guy come in and grab Jackson st
The Big 12 and remaining Pac teams will collaborate and be fine. Something will work out. I don't understand everyone laughing at the prospect of these teams fading into oblivion. The variety in college football is what makes it fun, imo. I don't want all of these programs to turn into also-rans.
LMCane said:why are you acting as if UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston are chopped liver?Lake08 said:
Bet they wish they had those 4 invites back. Could have easily had the zona schools. Would have been a viable conference
Cincy was in the freaking semifinals last year.
Arizona has gone 1-20 the last two seasons
Cincinnati will be chopped liver. They played nobody
'Cause they are.LMCane said:
why are you acting as if UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston are chopped liver?
Those 4 teams bring no eyeballs to the screen. $$ is the only mover in all this
I suspect if they could take 1 invite back, it would be Houston. The 1 they should not want to take back is BYU. With the remaining PAC teams, they could have created a nice conference in the central and mountain time zones.
Its would still be possible for the Big12 to take the Arizona schools. Nothing changed by adding the schools they did.
The big 12 did really well in adding UCF, CINCY, BYU, and COUGAR HIGH, imo.
Will they need to add more ? Possibly. Colorado, Zona schools, and maybe Utah would make sense.
Will they need to add more ? Possibly. Colorado, Zona schools, and maybe Utah would make sense.
While TV market size and ratings are one measure and can be somewhat subjective since it can be difficult to predict how much viewership may increase (or decrease) when the likes of UCF, Cincinnati, and Houston start having more regular games against teams playing in a conference that by all measures has a higher profile than the one they are leaving.
Another measure that I think is less subjective is look at the annual revenue of the program since that indicates a level of support and viewership as measured in dollars. Consequently you can take the program's revenue and add or subtract it from a conference to determine how much of a net gain or loss one program is compared to another, keeping in mind of course that part of that revenue is TV dollars that would increase or decrease depending on the circumstance.
Below is a link to a site that appears to have the most current revenue numbers (along with profit/loss) outside of USAToday (that list is behind a paywall).
College Athletic Departments Financial Database
Looking at that database, it seems outside of USC and Oregon, the Arizona schools would in fact be a decent get for the BDF, while Colorado is a bit of a fraud and should be avoided. Stanford is an interesting case as it is hard to pin down what they bring revenue wise and how much of a claim that really can place on the San Francisco-San Jose TV market vs. Washington's claim on the Seattle market for comparison.
FWIW, Only two SEC schools report revenues lower than the top Pac-12 teams, though I suspect USC would actually be higher than 6 SEC teams if we knew their revenue.
B12 is now probably looking for the receipts to return some of their damaged goods.
Lake08 said:
Bet they wish they had those 4 invites back. Could have easily had the zona schools. Would have been a viable conference
This is what I was thinking. BYU is a keeper no matter what, maybe Houston is a keeper…mostly due to regional factors.
Cincinnati is ok I guess based on their success, but UCF is a dog based on travel. And now you're littered with commuter schools.
But yes, with the recent availabilty of Utah, Colorado, AZ and AZ State… the BDF may have 1-2 riff raff that wasn't necessary.
Imagine if tu/OU said forget the SEC, we're starting a new "Southwest Conference", and grabbed:
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Baylor
TCU
Houston
Kansas
Kansas State
Colorado
Utah
BYU
Arizona
Arizona State
etc
Not SEC great but tu and OU could rule the roost in a decent conference that could be truly defined as Southwest. But you gotta blow up the whole BDF thing and be rid of non-regional West Virginia, Cincinnati, and UCF, for sure.
Arizona would add to an already really good basketball league. Utah has been really good at football. This looks like a no-brainer for the leftovers in both leagues.
jja79 said:
Arizona would add to an already really good basketball league. Utah has been really good at football. This looks like a no-brainer for the leftovers in both leagues.
Agree.
Baylor
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Okie Lite
TCU
Tech
WVU
BYU
UCF
Cincy
Houston
Arizona
Arizona St
Colorado
Utah
That is a conference that may lack football prestige but still certainly has enough large fanbases to generate eyeballs. And as a basketball league it's incredible.
This would be a fun conference. While Florida is way out there, at least it's a flight to Orlando so travel would be easy.
Now that the PAC is simply the Mountain West light, those schools will look east to the XII.
It's like I'm taking crazy pills.
It's like I'm taking crazy pills.
And it is every man for themselves. Whatever cohesion there was in the PAC, it's gone now.The Chicken Ranch said:
Now that the PAC is simply the Mountain West light, those schools will look east to the XII.
It's like I'm taking crazy pills.
I think the Big 12 did was wise to add BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF because these 4 schools are among the best non-Power 5 schools. Adding Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, and Utah would make the most sense because it would from a nice conference in the central and mountain time zones.
aggie_sprt said:
While TV market size and ratings are one measure and can be somewhat subjective since it can be difficult to predict how much viewership may increase (or decrease) when the likes of UCF, Cincinnati, and Houston start having more regular games against teams playing in a conference that by all measures has a higher profile than the one they are leaving.
Another measure that I think is less subjective is look at the annual revenue of the program since that indicates a level of support and viewership as measured in dollars. Consequently you can take the program's revenue and add or subtract it from a conference to determine how much of a net gain or loss one program is compared to another, keeping in mind of course that part of that revenue is TV dollars that would increase or decrease depending on the circumstance.
Below is a link to a site that appears to have the most current revenue numbers (along with profit/loss) outside of USAToday (that list is behind a paywall).
College Athletic Departments Financial Database
Looking at that database, it seems outside of USC and Oregon, the Arizona schools would in fact be a decent get for the BDF, while Colorado is a bit of a fraud and should be avoided. Stanford is an interesting case as it is hard to pin down what they bring revenue wise and how much of a claim that really can place on the San Francisco-San Jose TV market vs. Washington's claim on the Seattle market for comparison.
FWIW, Only two SEC schools report revenues lower than the top Pac-12 teams, though I suspect USC would actually be higher than 6 SEC teams if we knew their revenue.
I think it is important to look at Revenue - Institutional Support. Houston claims $66 mm in revenue, but $41 mm comes from institutional support. Their non-institutional support revenue is behind schools like Boise St and Memphis that do well in their own TV market and cities, at least.
Someone here can answer this better, but is Houston 3rd or lower in their own TV market among the Texas universities?
KansasLMCane said:
Arizona has gone 1-20 the last two seasons
Since this isn't about adding the likes of Stanford and Cal, USC and UCLA knew they needed to bolt because of NIL. And now that Oregon is trying to tag along? We can talk all we want about how this is strictly football, and thats true, but theres no denying that the Big 12 could easily be the best basketball confrence now. That's not a bad position to be in.
Duke and UNC basketball won't save the ACC, but collectively, with better football support than what's left in the PAC, I think the Big 12 should be very happy with how this played out. Other than academic prestige, Stanford and Cal aren't bringing in huge fan bases.
Duke and UNC basketball won't save the ACC, but collectively, with better football support than what's left in the PAC, I think the Big 12 should be very happy with how this played out. Other than academic prestige, Stanford and Cal aren't bringing in huge fan bases.
Cincy was out of their league in playoffs
ND has been to the playoffs multiple times- and the same as Cindy
ND has been to the playoffs multiple times- and the same as Cindy
Yeah, and he thinks UA is preferrable to BYU, the Mormon Notre Dame, who went 5-0 against the Pac-12 last year, including beating their champ.LMCane said:why are you acting as if UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston are chopped liver?Lake08 said:
Bet they wish they had those 4 invites back. Could have easily had the zona schools. Would have been a viable conference
Cincy was in the freaking semifinals last year.
Arizona has gone 1-20 the last two seasons
And he's ignoring the fact that UCF has over 70,000 enrolled. That's churning out a lot of streaming $$$ in the future.
The Pac-12 schools are going to be begging the Big 12 to let them join once Oregon and UW join the Big 10.
What is left of the so called Big 12 needs to merge with the remaining PAC 12 plus add Houston.
Vanderbilt and Missouri need to get out of SEC and SEC needs to add Ga. Tech , Clemson, Fla St.
Vanderbilt and Missouri need to get out of SEC and SEC needs to add Ga. Tech , Clemson, Fla St.
LMCane said:why are you acting as if UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston are chopped liver?Lake08 said:
Bet they wish they had those 4 invites back. Could have easily had the zona schools. Would have been a viable conference
Cincy was in the freaking semifinals last year.
Arizona has gone 1-20 the last two seasons
Arizona beauties >>>>> Cinn beasts
LMCane said:why are you acting as if UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston are chopped liver?Lake08 said:
Bet they wish they had those 4 invites back. Could have easily had the zona schools. Would have been a viable conference
Cincy was in the freaking semifinals last year.
Arizona has gone 1-20 the last two seasons
They ARE chopped liver. I lived in Houston for 10 years and I knew probably 3x as many UofH grads as UofH fans. Commuter schools shouldn't be playing big time football. Outside of BYU which is in a category of its own, all the Big 12 added was garbage commuter schools.
A conference is a BUSINESS PARTNERSHIP. For some reason, college sports fans keep missing that point. Cincy brings NO MONEY TO THE TABLE. They don't even carry the Cincinnati market. They are the yankee version of UH. UCF, likewise, carries almost none of the Florida market. BYU, on the other hand is a good fit.LMCane said:why are you acting as if UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston are chopped liver?Lake08 said:
Bet they wish they had those 4 invites back. Could have easily had the zona schools. Would have been a viable conference
Cincy was in the freaking semifinals last year.
Arizona has gone 1-20 the last two seasons
Big 12 should add CU and ASU at a minimum. Maybe take WSU and Oregon State depending upon which PAC schools remain after the Big 10 is done.
Buck Turgidson said:A conference is a BUSINESS PARTNERSHIP. For some reason, college sports fans keep missing that point. Cincy brings NO MONEY TO THE TABLE. They don't even carry the Cincinnati market. They are the yankee version of UH. UCF, likewise, carries almost none of the Florida market. BYU, on the other hand is a good fit.LMCane said:why are you acting as if UCF, Cincy, BYU and Houston are chopped liver?Lake08 said:
Bet they wish they had those 4 invites back. Could have easily had the zona schools. Would have been a viable conference
Cincy was in the freaking semifinals last year.
Arizona has gone 1-20 the last two seasons
Big 12 should add CU and ASU at a minimum. Maybe take WSU and Oregon State depending upon which PAC schools remain after the Big 10 is done.
Imagine thinking WSU and Oregon St bring in more money and eyeballs than UH, Cincy, and UCF.
So what you're saying is, you have all the numbers, the people WHO ACTUALLY do, don't have them as well.Quote:
A conference is a BUSINESS PARTNERSHIP. For some reason, college sports fans keep missing that point. Cincy brings NO MONEY TO THE TABLE. They don't even carry the Cincinnati market. They are the yankee version of UH. UCF, likewise, carries almost none of the Florida market. BYU, on the other hand is a good fit.
They are the ones agreeing to pay all the millions based on their math/viewership data.
But your math is better than all theirs?
Houstonag said:
What is left of the so called Big 12 needs to merge with the remaining PAC 12 plus add Houston.
Vanderbilt and Missouri need to get out of SEC and SEC needs to add Ga. Tech , Clemson, Fla St.
The sec Needs vandy because they are a private school and thus afford the entire sec certain legal protections because they are a member
That's an urban legend.
Washington is a commuter school. UCLA by definition is a commuter school (albeit much better academics). Arizona State is a commuter school. Cincinnati has the second largest enrollment in Ohio.
It's either arrogance or insecurity to feel like the pool of programs should boil down the richest few. If they have the resources and support? More power to them. UH and ASU bring a heck of a lot more to a confrence than Oregon State because theyre in Corvallis.
It's either arrogance or insecurity to feel like the pool of programs should boil down the richest few. If they have the resources and support? More power to them. UH and ASU bring a heck of a lot more to a confrence than Oregon State because theyre in Corvallis.
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