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BALL DON'T LIE w/ Johnny Manziel - episode TWO

8,565 Views | 70 Replies | Last: 25 days ago by cupofjoe04
Saint Pablo
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rootube said:

I don't disagree with your point here but Young had a productive NFL career by comparison and Jeff Fisher didn't really do him any favors in the coaching category. It feels like the Browns really tried to make it work despite Johnny's best efforts.
Very productive by comparison is not saying much. I disagree with what you are saying about the Browns trying to make it work. Mike Pettine was not bought in on Manziel and the back and forth with him and Hoyer messed JFF's development. JFF obviously had a huge role to play in the failure as well of course, but I do not think the Browns tried hard to make it work with him.
rootube
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Their intention (right or wrong) was to not throw him out there too soon and bring him along slowly and have him work his way into the offense. Unfortunately they didn't have a veteran QB who could run the team until he was ready and Johnny could not act like an adult long enough to give himself a shot. Blaming the Browns at this point is kind of burying your head in the sand.
AggieZUUL
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The interviewer's "street cool vibe" is pass(eh).
Saint Pablo
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I don't think it is ever good for a young QB's psyche to be thrown in and out of the starting lineup at a whim.

I love the idea of letting a guy sit and develop for the first year, but that isn't what the Browns did. They threw him into the fire, let him taste game action, and would not commit to him. They would go back to Hoyer or McCown.

I think it is similar to what Sumlin did with Kyle Allen and Kyler Murray and that ended up being bad for both of them.

At the end of the day, Johnny's failure is his fault, but the Browns did not do him any favors and I think they made decisions that were set him up for failure.
rootube
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Saint Pablo said:

I don't think it is ever good for a young QB's psyche to be thrown in and out of the starting lineup at a whim.

I love the idea of letting a guy sit and develop for the first year, but that isn't what the Browns did. They threw him into the fire, let him taste game action, and would not commit to him. They would go back to Hoyer or McCown.

I think it is similar to what Sumlin did with Kyle Allen and Kyler Murray and that ended up being bad for both of them.

At the end of the day, Johnny's failure is his fault, but the Browns did not do him any favors and I think they made decisions that were set him up for failure.


Now imagine you are the coach and you have two professionals who have far less talent but show up to practice and work their asses off. And another guy who is a screwup who cant show up but is very talented. As a manager for over twenty years I know that you have to get rid of the screwup because he is cancer to the organization and you will lose the team if you allow that to continue. (See the Aggies teams post Manziel for a good example) In that sense, the Browns and the Titans were in the same boat and made the best of a bad situation. The dye was likely already set for our team before the miss-handling of the QB situation started with Murray and Allen.
Windy City Ag
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Quote:

I don't think it is ever good for a young QB's psyche to be thrown in and out of the starting lineup at a whim.
Maybe not, but the level of competition in the NFL is off the charts and you need a near unhealthy degree of competitive fire and discipline to really succeed. Fragile psyches are going to bust sooner or later no matter how much hand holding is given.
PooDoo
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rootube said:

Saint Pablo said:

I don't think it is ever good for a young QB's psyche to be thrown in and out of the starting lineup at a whim.

I love the idea of letting a guy sit and develop for the first year, but that isn't what the Browns did. They threw him into the fire, let him taste game action, and would not commit to him. They would go back to Hoyer or McCown.

I think it is similar to what Sumlin did with Kyle Allen and Kyler Murray and that ended up being bad for both of them.

At the end of the day, Johnny's failure is his fault, but the Browns did not do him any favors and I think they made decisions that were set him up for failure.


Now imagine you are the coach and you have two professionals who have far less talent but show up to practice and work their asses off. And another guy who is a screwup who cant show up but is very talented. As a manager for over twenty years I know that you have to get rid of the screwup because he is cancer to the organization and you will lose the team if you allow that to continue. (See the Aggies teams post Manziel for a good example) In that sense, the Browns and the Titans were in the same boat and made the best of a bad situation. The dye was likely already set for our team before the miss-handling of the QB situation started with Murray and Allen.


Football doesn't follow the rules of corporate management.
Saint Pablo
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rootube said:

Saint Pablo said:

I don't think it is ever good for a young QB's psyche to be thrown in and out of the starting lineup at a whim.

I love the idea of letting a guy sit and develop for the first year, but that isn't what the Browns did. They threw him into the fire, let him taste game action, and would not commit to him. They would go back to Hoyer or McCown.

I think it is similar to what Sumlin did with Kyle Allen and Kyler Murray and that ended up being bad for both of them.

At the end of the day, Johnny's failure is his fault, but the Browns did not do him any favors and I think they made decisions that were set him up for failure.


Now imagine you are the coach and you have two professionals who have far less talent but show up to practice and work their asses off. And another guy who is a screwup who cant show up but is very talented. As a manager for over twenty years I know that you have to get rid of the screwup because he is cancer to the organization and you will lose the team if you allow that to continue. (See the Aggies teams post Manziel for a good example) In that sense, the Browns and the Titans were in the same boat and made the best of a bad situation. The dye was likely already set for our team before the miss-handling of the QB situation started with Murray and Allen.
In football, you gotta do what you can to get the best talent ready to go. You are never going to coach a hard working bum like McCown into leading you to a Super Bowl.
rootube
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You are wrong. Leadership is the same if you are in corporate America, the Army or an NFL team. There are many examples of good and bad leadership everywhere you look.
rootube
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Saint Pablo said:

rootube said:

Saint Pablo said:

I don't think it is ever good for a young QB's psyche to be thrown in and out of the starting lineup at a whim.

I love the idea of letting a guy sit and develop for the first year, but that isn't what the Browns did. They threw him into the fire, let him taste game action, and would not commit to him. They would go back to Hoyer or McCown.

I think it is similar to what Sumlin did with Kyle Allen and Kyler Murray and that ended up being bad for both of them.

At the end of the day, Johnny's failure is his fault, but the Browns did not do him any favors and I think they made decisions that were set him up for failure.


Now imagine you are the coach and you have two professionals who have far less talent but show up to practice and work their asses off. And another guy who is a screwup who cant show up but is very talented. As a manager for over twenty years I know that you have to get rid of the screwup because he is cancer to the organization and you will lose the team if you allow that to continue. (See the Aggies teams post Manziel for a good example) In that sense, the Browns and the Titans were in the same boat and made the best of a bad situation. The dye was likely already set for our team before the miss-handling of the QB situation started with Murray and Allen.
In football, you gotta do what you can to get the best talent ready to go. You are never going to coach a hard working bum like McCown into leading you to a Super Bowl.


Looks like you just summarized Sumlin's leadership strategy. It worked great until it failed spectacularly.
Saint Pablo
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rootube said:

Saint Pablo said:

rootube said:

Saint Pablo said:

I don't think it is ever good for a young QB's psyche to be thrown in and out of the starting lineup at a whim.

I love the idea of letting a guy sit and develop for the first year, but that isn't what the Browns did. They threw him into the fire, let him taste game action, and would not commit to him. They would go back to Hoyer or McCown.

I think it is similar to what Sumlin did with Kyle Allen and Kyler Murray and that ended up being bad for both of them.

At the end of the day, Johnny's failure is his fault, but the Browns did not do him any favors and I think they made decisions that were set him up for failure.


Now imagine you are the coach and you have two professionals who have far less talent but show up to practice and work their asses off. And another guy who is a screwup who cant show up but is very talented. As a manager for over twenty years I know that you have to get rid of the screwup because he is cancer to the organization and you will lose the team if you allow that to continue. (See the Aggies teams post Manziel for a good example) In that sense, the Browns and the Titans were in the same boat and made the best of a bad situation. The dye was likely already set for our team before the miss-handling of the QB situation started with Murray and Allen.
In football, you gotta do what you can to get the best talent ready to go. You are never going to coach a hard working bum like McCown into leading you to a Super Bowl.


Looks like you just summarized Sumlin's leadership strategy. It worked great until it failed spectacularly.
Jimbo has done the same thing. The guy had Jameis Winston and DeAndre Francois as starting QBs that both succeeded at a very high level. Any coach that is competing for titles is going to play the best player that puts you in the best position to win. Obviously some leaders do a better job of reigning players in and leading. That clearly was not Sumlin's area of expertise.
rootube
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Maybe Fisher fails too. We look like we are on a great trajectory but we did in 2012 too. Fisher does say all the right things about accountability, does he put them into practice? I guess time will tell.
jja79
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rootube said:

What happens after he tells all the stories from his playing days.


Reminds me of the King of Queens episode where Doug starts hanging around his old HS reliving his glory days.

Pretty sad actually.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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rootube said:

I don't disagree with your point here but Young had a productive NFL career by comparison and Jeff Fisher didn't really do him any favors in the coaching category. It feels like the Browns really tried to make it work despite Johnny's best efforts.
World's worst owner and Head coach ! Too stupid to do anything for Johnny /
BigJim49AustinnowDallas
PooDoo
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rootube said:

You are wrong. Leadership is the same if you are in corporate America, the Army or an NFL team. There are many examples of good and bad leadership everywhere you look.

Ever have to explain to your CEO or board why you fired the guy they just drafted in the 1st round and signed to 4 year deal with $6.7 million guaranteed?
FCBlitz
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I always thought Johnny Football ran like Pee Wee Herman...... ! Let that sink in for a bit.
BrandoC
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I wouldn't be surprised if Johnny ends up putting A&M on death penalty from what comes out of his mouth on this podcast.
TxAg76
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FCBlitz said:

I always thought Johnny Football ran like Pee Wee Herman...... ! Let that sink in for a bit.


or Captain Jack Sparrow
snowdog90
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Johnny was the best Texas Aggie football player in history. He is responsible for the new stadium... period. He was a nationwide phenomenon, if not global.

He screwed up. That doesn't change what he did at or for Texas A&M.
itsyourboypookie
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Whatthefunyo said:

Johnny and his buds are quite literally the deuschbaggy frat kids down the street...

But wait!

He is well past college age.

*confused*


Johnny is Just smashing baddies in Scottsdale abd playing golf, while you hate your job and hope your wife will come off a handy
Ag Tag
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Quote:

He was a nationwide phenomenon, if not global.



Yeah, they're still talking about him in Sri Lanka.
EliteZags
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Whatthefunyo said:

Johnny and his buds are quite literally the deuschbaggy frat kids down the street...

But wait!

He is well past college age.

*confused*

sorryforpartying boomer


not everyone wants to live as boring a life as you
bigblackag12
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Im not sure i agree that anything we know of johnny having done is as "disgraceful" as mike vick fighting and killing dogs.
BrotherChad
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EliteZags said:

Whatthefunyo said:

Johnny and his buds are quite literally the deuschbaggy frat kids down the street...

But wait!

He is well past college age.

*confused*

sorryforpartying boomer


not everyone wants to live as boring a life as you
I'm pretty sure many of us kept up the college lifestyle long after college. At least I did. He'll snap out of it in his 30's hopefully. Give Johnny a chance geez.
dannyv
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itsyourboypookie said:

Whatthefunyo said:

Johnny and his buds are quite literally the deuschbaggy frat kids down the street...

But wait!

He is well past college age.

*confused*


Johnny is Just smashing baddies in Scottsdale abd playing golf, while you hate your job and hope your wife will come off a handy
I hope the winky face means this was a joke. Are there really grown men who envy that lifestyle?
Faustus
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BrotherChad said:

EliteZags said:

Whatthefunyo said:

Johnny and his buds are quite literally the deuschbaggy frat kids down the street...

But wait!

He is well past college age.

*confused*

sorryforpartying boomer


not everyone wants to live as boring a life as you
I'm pretty sure many of us kept up the college lifestyle long after college. At least I did. He'll snap out of it in his 30's hopefully. Give Johnny a chance geez.


He's actually enjoying his second shot at the single life post-divorce. JFF does everything quicker.
EliteZags
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dannyv said:

itsyourboypookie said:

Whatthefunyo said:

Johnny and his buds are quite literally the deuschbaggy frat kids down the street...

But wait!

He is well past college age.

*confused*


Johnny is Just smashing baddies in Scottsdale abd playing golf, while you hate your job and hope your wife will come off a handy
I hope the winky face means this was a joke. Are there really grown men who envy that lifestyle?

are there really grown men that don't??

oh but I'm sure your neighborhood backyard BBQ's and bowling nights with the guys are thrilling
joefix93
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Ajollyag said:

Based on post a&m accomplishments. One could say kliff and mike evans are the ones that built kyle field and not Johnny.

I'm not admitting to this, but manziel isnt the god like figure a&m fans see him as anymore.
Swope had almost as large a contribution to Johnny's stats in 2012 as Evans did (more TD catches with less targets). Who knows what kind of pro career he would have had if it wasn't for concussions.

For the record, people don't tend to donate to the program based on how players are producing in the pros. I've watched college football for over 40 years, and Manziel was one in a million. Anyone who tries to backtrack and broad-brush his college success with his pro failure is just being dishonest with themselves.
dannyv
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EliteZags said:

dannyv said:

itsyourboypookie said:

Whatthefunyo said:

Johnny and his buds are quite literally the deuschbaggy frat kids down the street...

But wait!

He is well past college age.

*confused*


Johnny is Just smashing baddies in Scottsdale abd playing golf, while you hate your job and hope your wife will come off a handy
I hope the winky face means this was a joke. Are there really grown men who envy that lifestyle?

are there really grown men that don't??

oh but I'm sure your neighborhood backyard BBQ's and bowling nights with the guys are thrilling

I don't do either of those, but nice strawman. Even if I did, it's a little strange to try to convince me that I shouldn't derive joy from them. Yes, there are grown men who have actually grown past trying to make life a giant kegger and bang randoms. It becomes pretty sad beyond a certain age. I'm sorry that you live with that envy.

Wouldn't mind golfing more, though.
EliteZags
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point is the vast majority would agree he's living a more interesting and exciting life then the nobody guy trying to bash his lifestyle on a online forum, just answering your initial question
cupofjoe04
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EliteZags said:

point is the vast majority would agree he's living a more interesting and exciting life then the nobody guy trying to bash his lifestyle on a online forum, just answering your initial question
I completely disagree. I don't think the "vast majority" would agree with that at all. I think if you truly took a majority of the population, most would see his lifestyle as sad and sophomoric, not interesting and exciting. Sure, there are plenty of people who idolize those ridiculous lifestyles. But I would recon the vast majority of us realize that there are SSSOOO many deeper things than that life...

But don't mind me, I'm just a nobody - with a wife and kids that make my life richer than Johnny's bank account has ever been. And yes, I make damn good BBQ in my back yard.
MarathonAg12
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cupofjoe04 said:

EliteZags said:

point is the vast majority would agree he's living a more interesting and exciting life then the nobody guy trying to bash his lifestyle on a online forum, just answering your initial question
I completely disagree. I don't think the "vast majority" would agree with that at all. I think if you truly took a majority of the population, most would see his lifestyle as sad and sophomoric, not interesting and exciting. Sure, there are plenty of people who idolize those ridiculous lifestyles. But I would recon the vast majority of us realize that there are SSSOOO many deeper things than that life...

But don't mind me, I'm just a nobody - with a wife and kids that make my life richer than Johnny's bank account has ever been. And yes, I make damn good BBQ in my back yard.


Agreed. I think most people "envy" his lifestyle in more of a fantasy weekend in Vegas. Nobody actually wants that day end and day out
mhc06
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tell me you're old and boring without telling me you're old and boring
DuncanLEO
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EliteZags said:

point is the vast majority would agree he's living a more interesting and exciting life then the nobody guy trying to bash his lifestyle on a online forum, just answering your initial question


Lulz. Dude is a mid 20s doper who lives with 6 dudes. His highlights show him playing beer pong and shotgunning seltzer beers with other ******bags. He's got no discipline, ambition, or motivation. Sounds like a foundation for a ****ty unfulfilled life. Anyone could've done that with their lives, few choose to do so.
Matsui
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I listened today. Just more circle jerking basically about finding himself and trying to find a vibe.
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