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Can we stop with the JiMbO's OfFeNsE iS tOo CoMpLeX narrative?

4,971 Views | 41 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by ashley
AlbertCSWBHockenberry
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I've seen people on here speculate that the reason we can't switch QBs is because Jimbo's offense is too complicated. I've even seen bloggers say the reason we're not experiencing success is because the offensive is too complex. Yeah, I don't believe that.


We literally have seven running plays on offense under Jimbo.


Power.
Counter.
Inside Zone.
Outside Zone.
Speed Option.
Pin-Pull Sweep.
Iso (for short yardage)


That's it.


Against Vanderbilt, we ran counter, inside zone, outside zone, and speed option. Sometimes we got a little frisky and combined speed option with inside zone for a triple option, but it is still the same basic play and same blocking. Add in iso for short yardage, that would make five running plays against Vanderbilt. Five. That is youth football offense simple.


Here is Mond running counter. Watch Smith's counter-face immediately post snap.





Smith is lead blocker for Mond here. Wydermyer either needs to kickout the safety, or pin him inside, one or the other, his no-block here is a failure. Wydermyer kicks him out, Smith pins the linebacker inside, and Mond is off to the races, the only defender a cornerback fighting Jalen Preston's block.


Here is Ainias Smith running counter, same play, just out of 21 personnel.





You see the same counter-step by Smith after the snap. Same blocking, with a beautiful kickout by #64 Layden Robinson. Wydermyer again doesn't really get his man, I can't tell if he gets a hand on him and spins him, or if the LB just tried to twist and dived and missed. I love Wydermyer as a player, think he is a guaranteed first round draft pick if he plays his cards right, but he NEEDS to take more pride in his blocking. Spiller is a lead blocker for Smith here, you're tempted to say he should go get that safety, but reality is that Smith was getting downfield faster than he was, outrunning his blocking.


Here is Isaiah Spiller running outside zone.




Vanderbilt's defense follows the zone footwork and flows playside, which is why Spiller isn't able to hit the edge. Well, that and Carson Green getting shoved upfield, which gave up the edge. To Carson's credit, he stays on his man and doesn't let him come free, giving Spiller room to cut upside inside the block. Hocker got away with a pretty blatant hold here, spinning that guy like a merry-go-round. Wydermyer does his job here, displacing the safety back four yards and out of the play. I'd like him to bury the guy or play to the whistle, but that is just my nitpicking. McCollum is good on the double-team of the three tech, but isn't able to get off to the second level fast enough to get the backside linebacker. He tries to give him a little shove from the side to avoid a block-in-the-back call, but we're just lucky Spiller is a freaking football player who makes the people around him look good. I'd really like it is Kellen would continue with a bootleg fake on the backside to force the backside end to respect the running threat, but he just turns to watch the play develop.


Here is Kellen running speed option:





Protect the ball so you won't get stripped and fumble, Kellen.


Here is Smith running speed option:





Same play, different decisions based on the QB read.


Here we get frisky and combine inside zone and speed option.





We are wild men.


From what I recall, we did not run Power or Pin-Pull sweep in this game, but they're definitely in our offense. Pretty sure we also did not run iso, although it is a short yardage staple in goal-to-go for Jimbo.


So we ran counter, inside zone, outside zone, speed option, and the triple option combining inside zone/speed option in this game. That is five running plays. What is complex about that?


Some people might point to the passing game and say it is too complex for young QBs, but I don't buy that either. Unless you're a full-time triple option team that only puts one or two people out in pass patterns, every college team pretty much uses all of the same two and three-man passing concepts, the only difference is how they're tailored for the arm strength and accuracy of the QB. If a QB can't throw across his body 20 yards to the top of the numbers, you don't ask him to make that throw. If you've played HS football in a passing offense today, you've already run many of the concepts you will run in college.

Other than asking Mond to throw an accurate fade, which I'm not sure he can do on the field on game day, we don't ask him to make any throws he can't make. Mond's first overthrow to Smith in the end zone off a wheel route was a failed fade pass. I'm not sure he can consistently execute that throw. It's not that it's too complicated or he can't make the right read, it's a physical issue, not a mental one.

We run the same two-man and three-man passing concepts as anyone else. We have a handful of running plays we use on offense. So please stop calling Jimbo's offense too complex, because it is a false narrative.
Rule#2
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Football talk on the football forum? This won't sit well with many here.
hunter2012
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Good post but we likely held back the playbook here, especially after we took the lead. Jimbo wasn't going to open up the playbook to run up the score. Especially since just executing the offense would have put the game out of reach.
Ag Tag
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Rule#2 said:

Football talk on the football forum? This won't sit well with many here.
I agree, this was a bit too footballish.
TheWoodsAg
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https://theoutsidezone.substack.com/p/jimbo-fisher-is-still-making-it-too

Jimbo Fisher Is Still Making It Too Complicated
The Texas A&M head coach refuses to simplify his offense.......

You should read this. Essentially points out that the offense as it is designed with it's reads is too complicated for our QB.
ebag02
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Crab legs figured out Jimbo's offense.
AlbertCSWBHockenberry
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TheWoodsAg said:

https://theoutsidezone.substack.com/p/jimbo-fisher-is-still-making-it-too

Jimbo Fisher Is Still Making It Too Complicated
The Texas A&M head coach refuses to simplify his offense.......

You should read this. Essentially points out that the offense as it is designed with it's reads is too complicated for our QB.


Did you just quote a blog post I linked in the opening paragraph of my post, and tell me I should read it?

Btw, that blogger is......inaccurate, to put it nicely
He thinks Chapman is a TE because he's white and tall. He also says Mond focuses on his first read while the referring video clearly shows him reading concept side to the right, then coming backside to make the throw. That blogger chose a narrative, and then tried to find plays to justify his preconceived opinion. Sorry, but he's wrong, and you're wrong if you believe him.
greg.w.h
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Great read OP.
Demo_Slug
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It's to complicated.... for some people
Slamn Sharpe
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Thanks OP
Aggie_Swag18
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Most teams don't have that varied of a run game, there are only so many places that you can run it. Oklahoma only has 4 main runs then a few special ones they throw in for flavor. Where offenses get complex is when you try to have long play calls to describe something simple, a wide variety of pass protections that have to be identified with each play call, and multiple checks quarterbacks have to make.

While the air raid came from the west coast, the play calls and designs are much simpler. They can call something in as little as one word if it's from their base formation, while a west coast coaching method will use a long sentence to call the formation, receiver routes, and pass protection. While you say we only had 5 run plays total, Mike Leach only ran ~15 total plays with only 4 formations, and one of them I only saw twice. Two plays I only saw once (shovel pass and a slant/streak combo). A majority of the time he just kept running the same two plays (mesh and 4 verticals). In total over the year you might see him run 20 something total plays. I don't know exactly how many pass protections Leach has, but Mumme only had 5 in his offense with Dallas (quick game left, quick game right, half roll right, half roll left, dropback). Most of those are already going to be included in the play name that can be as simple as one or two words. They don't call out individual routes unless they're changing them from the base play.
Any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through, and still know where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.
TheWoodsAg
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AlbertCSWBHockenberry said:

TheWoodsAg said:

https://theoutsidezone.substack.com/p/jimbo-fisher-is-still-making-it-too

Jimbo Fisher Is Still Making It Too Complicated
The Texas A&M head coach refuses to simplify his offense.......

You should read this. Essentially points out that the offense as it is designed with it's reads is too complicated for our QB.


Did you just quote a blog post I linked in the opening paragraph of my post, and tell me I should read it?

Btw, that blogger is......inaccurate, to put it nicely
He thinks Chapman is a TE because he's white and tall. He also says Mond focuses on his first read while the referring video clearly shows him reading concept side to the right, then coming backside to make the throw. That blogger chose a narrative, and then tried to find plays to justify his preconceived opinion. Sorry, but he's wrong, and you're wrong if you believe him.


That's what the winky face emoji was for, I agree with you....relax bro. My point is, our QB can't execute the offense as it's designed because Our QBs accuracy can't match the complexity, hopefully with a new field general that will change.
halfastros81
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I agree it's likely not that complex. The problem
Is execution.
SouthCollegeStation
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This is the Best Post of the Season. Great Work

I learned a lot and it has changed my thoughts on some players strengths and weaknesses.
There are a number of plays that were called right for the down & distance --
"But the execution was poor for various reasons".

O Line Blocking, Tight End Blocking, RB Blocking, QB reads, Etc.
It's not just QB execution issues on Offense, but the other 10 players as well....
-- This is what Jimbo is talking about.... He saw the lack of all 11 players not executing


canaAg12
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I read that article as well. As a coach, I understand that we all have schemes and things we will live and die by. Every offense has a staple set of plays. However, if there are things that are not working, the good coaches change the scheme a bit to benefit the players. If it is an over complication of scheme, then something needs to be changed. The scheme has to fit the personnel in my opinion, not the other way around.
Bobby Petrino`s Neckbrace
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Stephen McGee doesn't think the system is complicated. He thinks that Mond had a terrible game. That's all I need to know.

https://texags.com/s/37081/the-film-room-texas-am-17-vanderbilt-12/25/2
greg.w.h
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Bobby Petrino`s Neckbrace said:

Stephen McGee doesn't think the system is complicated. He thinks that Mond had a terrible game. That's all I need to know.

https://texags.com/s/37081/the-film-room-texas-am-17-vanderbilt-12/25/2
You think three fumbles is terrible?? Do tell??
maver1ck
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Jameis Winston has said Jimbo's offense is far more complicated than anything he has ever run at Tampa Bay. And he's a guy that really knew how to execute it.

We didn't show much of anything against Vanderbilt.
Bobby Petrino`s Neckbrace
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The missed reads and poor throws were as bad as the fumbles.
patreyus
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Jimbo is stuck on implementing what he wants to do vs what can I implement based on the talent I have!! Mond does not have some of the strengths to run Jimbo's offense so he needs to adjust but you can only do some much when accuracy at the QB position is poor. Mond needs to step up and take accountability that he just played poorly and work harder this week. If not then it may be time for a change but Jimbo won't pull the trigger because he falls in love with a guy and just continues to hope for an improved result. Kind of reminds me of Jerry Jones.
ironmanag
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Can someone explain the stupid upper case lower case nonsense?
According to the Biden White House, what Joe Biden says does not represent the official position of the Biden administration.
TopoTacos
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ebag02 said:

Crab legs figured out Jimbo's offense.


He also went to a pro bowl and led the NFL in passing yards.
Saint Pablo
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ebag02 said:

Crab legs figured out Jimbo's offense.
He is a moron off the field, but from what I recall hearing, he has a pretty high football IQ
zooguy96
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Mond has a low football IQ. He's best when he's not thinking and instead improvising and reacting. As he did against Clemson and LSU 2 years ago.

Unfortunately, that's not what Jimbo wants - and it shows in his robotic play.
Whatthefunyo
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Solid post from a Rook.

Albert, I would like to see a weekly analysis on this forum from you.
rbcs_2
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canaAg12 said:

I read that article as well. As a coach, I understand that we all have schemes and things we will live and die by. Every offense has a staple set of plays. However, if there are things that are not working, the good coaches change the scheme a bit to benefit the players. If it is an over complication of scheme, then something needs to be changed. The scheme has to fit the personnel in my opinion, not the other way around.
Jimbo changed his offense quite a bit when he first got here. I think he will always settle into a pro style but he wasn't a fool about the personnel he had on campus.
Agsuffering@bulaw
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He just argued it wrong. There is evidence in those cuts to support his conclusions.First play, mond fails to see wydermeyer and goes back to the boundary side.

Second play, he is correct that mond misses the check down.

Third play, our ol gets beat.

Conclusion: mond cannot make lots of reads and the ol cannot be expected to regularly win the point of attack.
TyHolden
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i just had a minor seizure reading this title. my lawyers will be contacting texags and you shortly.
Rooster4Ag
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Winston is a true gunslinger. He's a pretty immoral and gross ******* off the field, but a true qb on the field. HIgh football iq, and the guts to roll the dice and take big risks. You can't even compare him to Mond, remember he was the youngest to win the heisman at the time.
TexAggie1999
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hunter2012 said:

Good post but we likely held back the playbook here, especially after we took the lead. Jimbo wasn't going to open up the playbook to run up the score. Especially since just executing the offense would have put the game out of reach.


You talk of running up the score in a game as close as it was?

You guys saying we held back the playbook are just looking for excuses.
Viper16
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hunter2012 said:

Good post but we likely held back the playbook here, especially after we took the lead. Jimbo wasn't going to open up the playbook to run up the score. Especially since just executing the offense would have put the game out of reach.

LOL!
canaAg12
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In terms of personell, I was talking more along the lines of qb. Something I have wondered the last three years is if it is a lack of talent by mond, a complicated scheme where the qb has to make numerous difficult reads, or a combination of both. It is just frustrating as a fan to watch the same mistakes over and over, so i question what the root of the problem is.
Russ Dalrymple
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There is a lot of variety in Jimbo's pass game as far as concepts are concerned including a wide array of sight adjustments for the WRs.

The biggest issue with Jimbo's offense, even going back to FSU was pass protection. His teams there had major breakdowns at times in protection.

Yes, he has about 5-6 run concepts but even in those, there are quite a few variations/nuances.

I've got a copy of his 2016 playbook from FSU. It's probably still floating around online in some places too.
LatinAggie1997
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Ditto.
















Agsttt
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Crab Legs had a boatload more talent, too. Vince Young is proof that boxes of rocks can get by on talent alone.
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