I think to make it complete you need to consider their parent's life span. Those young guys are influenced too by who Dad liked too. Overall good post and great info.

TXaggiesTX said:

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level.
- Georgia does not belong in the conversation with Alabama and Clemson. Maybe they're trending in that direction but their decade accomplishments don't match up to Auburn or Oregon or even FSU. My personal opinion is if they were in the west they would have 2-3 losses every year.

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UGA really a tale to two parts of the decade, they were worse than your 2-3 losses most years under richt, Kirby has made them in the conversation, but even under him they've had 2+ losses every year so you aren't really going out on a limb.

Really it just shows how impressive bama has been, and how down the acc is for Clemson to do what ifs done. Assuming everyone on that list averaged 13 games a year, only bama doesn't average 2 losses.

Great info.

the data on TCU is a little misleading. The Frogs were a combined 25-2 in 2010 & 2011...their last 2 years in the mediocre Mountain West.

since joining the Big 12 in 2012...the program's winning % is .612...basically going 8-5 every year

and at the risk of sending this thread in a different direction...

the biggest reason for not seeing Texas schools in these rankings...is the over-dependence on Texas high schools for recruiting...at positions other than QB & WR. All part of the 7-on-7 effect.

there are simply not enough quality in-state OL, DL, LB, and DB players to fill the rosters of A&M, t.u., and the other P5 schools in the state.

it would be easy to blame the coaches, but A&M and t.u. have combined to have 6 different head coaches in the last decade. And each one has battled the same problem...building a roster with quality OL and front 7 players

W said:

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and at the risk of sending this thread in a different direction...

the biggest reason for not seeing Texas schools in these rankings...is the over-dependence on Texas high schools for recruiting...at positions other than QB & WR. All part of the 7-on-7 effect.

there are simply not enough quality in-state OL, DL, LB, and DB players to fill the rosters of A&M, t.u., and the other P5 schools in the state.

it would be easy to blame the coaches, but A&M and t.u. have combined to have 6 different head coaches in the last decade. And each one has battled the same problem...building a roster with quality OL and front 7 players

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While that may be somewhat true, I think the much bigger factor is that Texas schools (outside of TCU who had the best decade) have not had good enough coaches to make them a top 15 program. If your coach is not capable of getting elite talent, it doesn't matter where that talent comes from because you aren't going to get it.

TCU - Patterson is the best coach they'll ever have. Not an A recruiter but a very solid developer of talent and good at finding 3 star guys who are actually good.

Baylor - was doing really well with Art Briles.

tu - Longhorns are not an elite program. But they have had 2 straight coaches (Strong and Herman) who are not good enough to coach there. My dad is an LSU grad and he wanted to keep O over hiring Herman long before that was a popular opinion. Herman is so overrated I hope they keep as him as long as possible. Notice how good UNC is recruiting with a great coach.

A&M - Sumlin was a fine coach I guess. I've heard he had some character issues. But simply not good enough to be the HC of a top 15 program in the country. Fisher is recruiting like he is and I believe soon will start winning like he is. The ONLY reason we are able to recruit nationally is because Jimbo Fisher is our coach.

W said:

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Great info.

the data on TCU is a little misleading. The Frogs were a combined 25-2 in 2010 & 2011...their last 2 years in the mediocre Mountain West.

since joining the Big 12 in 2012...the program's winning % is .612...basically going 8-5 every year

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They also won the Rose Bowl

I know, I know "obsessed with the BDF" but seriously. OU with 6 conference titles, 4 playoff appearances and 0 playoff wins. What does it say when your BEST team can't win ONE game in the playoffs. Even the PAC has done that.

Cstrickland05 said:

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W said:

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Great info.

the data on TCU is a little misleading. The Frogs were a combined 25-2 in 2010 & 2011...their last 2 years in the mediocre Mountain West.

since joining the Big 12 in 2012...the program's winning % is .612...basically going 8-5 every year

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They also won the Rose Bowl

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Sounds like joining the Big XII hurt them.

In the last decade (2010-2019), Texas A&M has a far superior record of 84-46 (0.646) to Texas' 71-57 (0.555). Since joining the SEC in 2012, Texas A&M is 68-36 (0.654), and Texas is 58-45 (0.563). Our winning percentage of 0.646 is fairly close to that of Auburn, Michigan, and Notre Dame. With just two more wins in the last decade, we could have finished 86-44 (0.662), and that would have put us in 14th place and ahead of these aforementioned schools. In the eight years that we've been in the SEC, Texas A&M actually has a better record of 68-36 than Auburn's 65-40. In the last two years, both Texas A&M and Auburn went 17-9. Only Alabama, LSU, and Georgia have better winning percentages than we do. I believe Jimbo Fisher will one day to lead us to an SEC championship, a CFP appearance, and a national championship. Hopefully, we win an SEC championship before the Longhorns win the Big 12 championship.

Wisconsin is impressive in that they never had a single top 25 recruiting class throughout the decade. Baylor had just one class squeeze in at #25 in 2014. Probably the two most overachieving schools in the country outside of Clemson who was 16th nationally in 4 and 5 star recruits (behind Texas A&M).

On the other hand Texas who recruited 147 4 and 5 star players to campus (5th most nationally) had zero conference titles and FOUR losing seasons making them the undisputed most underachieving program of the decade.

In TCU's first two years in the Big 12, they went 11-14. Then, they went 40-13 from 2014-2017 and won 11+ games in three out of those four years. But since then, they have gone just 12-13 and missed a bowl game last year. Gary Patterson is not a great recruiter, but he has done a good job of identifying 3-star recruits and developing them. He has also helped them to transition from the Mountain West to the Big 12 and kept them competitive. Besides Mike Gundy, who has been with Oklahoma State since 2005, Patterson is the longest tenured coach in the Big 12. Technically, Patterson has been with his program for four years longer than Gundy, but TCU didn't join the Big 12 until much later.

I agree with most of what you said about Baylor, TCU, Texas, and Texas A&M, but since the College Football Playoff Era began in 2014, Baylor has played in two NY6 bowls, and TCU and Texas have each played in one NY6 bowl. We have yet to play in one during this era. I agree that LSU made the right choice to internally promote Ed Orgeron over hiring Tom Herman, but Herman is way better than Charlie Strong, who went 16-21 from 2014 to 2016. He has gone 4-0 in bowl games and 3-0 with the Longhorns. He led the Houston Cougars to a 38-24 defeat over Jimbo Fisher's Florida State Seminoles in the 2015 Peach Bowl, a 28-21 upset of the 11-2 SEC East champion Georgia Bulldogs in the 2019 Sugar Bowl, and a 38-10 rout of the 11-2 Pac-12 South champion Utah Utes team in last year's Alamo Bowl.

Still, I believe Jimbo Fisher is a better head coach than Tom Herman. Since Jimbo Fisher arrived, he has a slightly better winning percentage of 17-9 (0.654) in two years than Longhorns coach Tom Herman has in three years 25-15 (0.625) while navigating a tougher schedule. I also think Fisher will lead the Aggies to an SEC championship before Herman leads the Longhorns to a Big 12 championship.

Kevin Sumlin had difficulty retaining and developing the talent he had and lost too many winnable games. After the 2015 season, both quarterbacks Kyle Allen and Kyler Murray transferred before our bowl game, leaving third stringer quarterback Jake Hubenak for the Music City Bowl against Louisville before a 27-21 loss that dropped us to a second straight 8-5 season. I think the beginning of the end of his tenure was when we lost to the then 3-5 Mississippi State Bulldogs 35-28 on November 5, 2016. The following week, we blew a 21-6 fourth quarter lead and lost to the then 4-5 Ole Miss Rebels 29-28 at home. In that year, we started 6-0, including 4-0 in SEC games, but lost 5 of last 7 games to finish 8-5 for the third consecutive year, including a 33-28 loss to Kansas State in the Texas Bowl.

Outside of Alabama, the SEC was weak that year. 8-4 Auburn made a Sugar Bowl appearance and got crushed by Oklahoma 35-16. Both Mississippi teams finished 5-7, but we found a way to get swept by them. Because there weren't enough bowl eligible teams, 5-7 Mississippi State received an invitation to the St Petersburgh Bowl and defeated Miami-Ohio 17-16 to finish 6-7. That year was an excellent opportunity to finish 10-2 and 2nd place in the SEC west, but those two loses dropped us to a disappointing 4th place finish and costed us a Sugar Bowl appearance.

In the 2017 season opener at UCLA, we blew a 44-10 lead to lose 45-44. Then, we won 5 of our next 6 games before getting embarrassed by Mississippi State 35-14 and Auburn 42-27 in back to back home games that extended our home losing streak to SEC West teams to seven games. It also dropped his record in SEC west home games to 3-12 and SEC home record to 8-14. That was probably the final straw in Sumlin's tenure.

The only thing Kevin Sumlin has done that Jimbo has yet to do is beat Alabama once and Auburn three times. He went 3-0 against Auburn on the road, but 0-3 against them at home. Sure the 2012 Auburn team was terrible and went 3-9 (0-8 in SEC games), but Sumlin has two road wins against Gus Malzahn in 2014 and 2016. Still, Fisher is well ahead of Sumlin in SEC home games so far going 3-0 in 2018 and 2-2 last year. Under his guidance we finally got our first SEC west home in over three years with a 38-24 defeat of Ole Miss on November 10, 2018. The previous SEC west home win was 1134 days prior when we beat Mississippi State 30-17 on October 3, 2015. Fisher was also the last coach to beat LSU in the 74-72 seven-overtime victory. Under Sumlin, we could never beat LSU, not even with Johnny Manziel.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

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I agree with most of what you said about Baylor, TCU, Texas, and Texas A&M, but since the College Football Playoff Era, TCU, Baylor, and Texas have each played in one NY6 bowl. We have yet to play in one during this era. I agree that LSU made the right choice to internally promote Ed Orgeron over hiring Tom Herman, but Herman is way better than Charlie Strong, who went 16-21 from 2014 to 2016. He has gone 4-0 in bowl games and 3-0 with the Longhorns. He led the Houston Cougars to a 38-24 defeat over Jimbo Fisher's Florida State Seminoles in the 2015 Peach Bowl, a 28-21 upset of the 11-2 SEC East champion Georgia Bulldogs in the 2019 Sugar Bowl, and a 38-10 rout of the 11-2 Pac-12 South champion Utah Utes team in last year's Alamo Bowl.


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One thing is (unfortunately) true: Tome Herman gets his team ready to start and finish the year. They played LSU hard to start the season and I expect the same next year. They have also put in two solid bowls the last two years. That part is impressive.

I corrected it. Baylor actually has two NY6 bowl appearances, a 42-41 loss to Michigan State in the January 2015 Cotton Bowl and a 26-14 loss to Georgia in last year's Sugar Bowl. I am glad Kirby Smart and the Georgia Bulldogs recovered from their 37-10 blowout loss to the eventual national champion LSU Tigers in the SEC championship game to defeat Baylor in the Sugar Bowl.

Yes, the Longhorns played the LSU Tigers tough before losing 45-38, but I was surprised they barely beat Kansas 50-48 at home. That Kansas team finished 3-9. Even with LSU's tremendous talent loss, I am expecting LSU to beat Texas by 10-14 points in Baton Rouge on 9/12, but nowhere near the 50-7 beat down that they handed us last year.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

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I corrected it. Baylor actually has two NY6 bowl appearances, a 42-41 loss to Michigan State in the January 2015 Cotton Bowl and a 26-14 loss to Georgia in last year's Sugar Bowl. I am glad Kirby Smart and the Georgia Bulldogs recovered from their 37-10 blowout loss to the eventual national champion LSU Tigers in the SEC championship game to defeat Baylor in the Sugar Bowl.

Yes, the Longhorns played the LSU Tigers tough before losing 45-38, but I was surprised they barely beat Kansas 50-48 at home. That Kansas team finished 3-9. Even with LSU's tremendous talent loss, I am expecting LSU to beat Texas by 10-14 points in Baton Rouge on 9/12, but nowhere near the 50-7 beat down that they handed us last year.

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For sure texas loses or is in close games way too often. I don't think Herman will ever get them to the playoffs, much less a title. Hell, he'll likely have a losing record to OU by the time he's gone. But he CAN coach a big game with a lot of time to prep.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

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The only thing Kevin Sumlin has done that Jimbo has yet to do is beat Alabama once and Auburn three times. He went 3-0 against Auburn on the road, but 0-3 against them at home. Sure the 2012 Auburn team was terrible and went 3-9 (0-8 in SEC games), but Sumlin has two road wins against Gus Malzahn in 2014 and 2016. Still, Fisher is well ahead of Sumlin in SEC home games so far going 3-0 in 2018 and 2-2 last year. Under his guidance we finally got our first SEC west home in over three years with a 38-24 defeat of Ole Miss on November 10, 2018. The previous SEC west home win was 1134 days prior when we beat Mississippi State 30-17 on October 3, 2015. Fisher was also the last coach to beat LSU in the 74-72 seven-overtime victory. Under Sumlin, we could never beat LSU, not even with Johnny Manziel.

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One thing I never did understand was how Sumlin could be so good on the road and so bad at home.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

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I agree with most of what you said about Baylor, TCU, Texas, and Texas A&M, but since the College Football Playoff Era began in 2014, Baylor has played in two NY6 bowls, and TCU and Texas have each played in one NY6 bowl. We have yet to play in one during this era. I agree that LSU made the right choice to internally promote Ed Orgeron over hiring Tom Herman, but Herman is way better than Charlie Strong, who went 16-21 from 2014 to 2016. He has gone 4-0 in bowl games and 3-0 with the Longhorns. He led the Houston Cougars to a 38-24 defeat over Jimbo Fisher's Florida State Seminoles in the 2015 Peach Bowl, a 28-21 upset of the 11-2 SEC East champion Georgia Bulldogs in the 2019 Sugar Bowl, and a 38-10 rout of the 11-2 Pac-12 South champion Utah Utes team in last year's Alamo Bowl.

Still, I believe Jimbo Fisher is a better head coach than Tom Herman. Since Jimbo Fisher arrived, he has a slightly better winning percentage of 17-9 (0.654) in two years than Longhorns coach Tom Herman has in three years 25-15 (0.625) while navigating a tougher schedule. I also think Fisher will lead the Aggies to an SEC championship before Herman leads the Longhorns to a Big 12 championship.

Kevin Sumlin had difficulty retaining and developing the talent he had and lost too many winnable games. After the 2015 season, both quarterbacks Kyle Allen and Kyler Murray transferred before our bowl game, leaving third stringer quarterback Jake Hubenak for the Music City Bowl against Louisville before a 27-21 loss that dropped us to a second straight 8-5 season. I think the beginning of the end of his tenure was when we lost to the then 3-5 Mississippi State Bulldogs 35-28 on November 5, 2016. The following week, we blew a 21-6 fourth quarter lead and lost to the then 4-5 Ole Miss Rebels 29-28 at home. In that year, we started 6-0, including 4-0 in SEC games, but lost 5 of last 7 games to finish 8-5 for the third consecutive year, including a 33-28 loss to Kansas State in the Texas Bowl.

Outside of Alabama, the SEC was weak that year. 8-4 Auburn made a Sugar Bowl appearance and got crushed by Oklahoma 35-16. Both Mississippi teams finished 5-7, but we found a way to get swept by them. Because there weren't enough bowl eligible teams, 5-7 Mississippi State received an invitation to the St Petersburgh Bowl and defeated Miami-Ohio 17-16 to finish 6-7. That year was an excellent opportunity to finish 10-2 and 2nd place in the SEC west, but those two loses dropped us to a disappointing 4th place finish and costed us a Sugar Bowl appearance.

In the 2017 season opener at UCLA, we blew a 44-10 lead to lose 45-44. Then, we won 5 of our next 6 games before getting embarrassed by Mississippi State 35-14 and Auburn 42-27 in back to back home games that extended our home losing streak to SEC West teams to seven games. It also dropped his record in SEC west home games to 3-12 and SEC home record to 8-14. That was probably the final straw in Sumlin's tenure.

The only thing Kevin Sumlin has done that Jimbo has yet to do is beat Alabama once and Auburn three times. He went 3-0 against Auburn on the road, but 0-3 against them at home. Sure the 2012 Auburn team was terrible and went 3-9 (0-8 in SEC games), but Sumlin has two road wins against Gus Malzahn in 2014 and 2016. Still, Fisher is well ahead of Sumlin in SEC home games so far going 3-0 in 2018 and 2-2 last year. Under his guidance we finally got our first SEC west home in over three years with a 38-24 defeat of Ole Miss on November 10, 2018. The previous SEC west home win was 1134 days prior when we beat Mississippi State 30-17 on October 3, 2015. Fisher was also the last coach to beat LSU in the 74-72 seven-overtime victory. Under Sumlin, we could never beat LSU, not even with Johnny Manziel.

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If NY6 was a thing earlier wouldn't our cotton and peach bowl count in JFF years?

I'd also argue that our Gator Bowl season was more impressive than tus sugar bowl fluke where UGA didn't have half their team

I wish our Cotton and Peach Bowl wins with JFF would counts as NY6 wins, but we played in these bowls before the CFP era started in 2014. At the time, these bowls were not even BCS bowls. The BCS games consisted of the Rose, Orange, Sugar, and Fiesta Bowls, and the BCS Championship Game.

I agree that Kevin Sumlin was so bad in home games, but he wasn't great in road games. He started his tenure 6-0 in SEC road games before ending the 2013 regular season with back to back road loses at LSU and Missouri. After Johnny Manziel left, Sumlin went 7-7 in SEC road games. In both 2014 and 2016, he won at Auburn, but got swept by the Mississippi teams. Kevin Sumlin has road wins against Ole Miss in 2012, 2013, and 2017, but lost home games to them in 2014 and 2016. He also lost road games to Mississippi State in 2014 and 2016 and has an additional non-conference road loss at UCLA, when we blew a 44-10 lead to lose 45-44. I would say he was solid in road games, but horrible in home games, and I could not understand why either.

Under Jimbo Fisher, we've gone 1-3 and 1-2 in SEC road games over the past two years, not including wins over Arkansas at Jerry World. The only road wins were at South Carolina in 2018 and Ole Miss in 2019. The October road stretch with games at Mississippi State on 10/3, at Auburn on 10/17, and at South Carolina on 10/24 will go a long way toward determining how many games we will win. We have not won in Starkville, Mississippi since 2012, but I believe we should finally beat the Bulldogs on the road. The game at Auburn will be our toughest game before ending the season with a road game at Alabama and a home game against LSU. Since South Carolina became our permanent cross-division rival in 2014, we have gone 6-0 against the Gamecocks, including 3-0 on the road. However, South Carolina has a bye week before hosting us. I believe we should go at least 2-2 in these SEC road games, 2-1 in SEC home games, and beat Arkansas in Arlington to finish at least 5-3 in SEC and 9-3 overall.

My general point is that under Sumlin we went 8-14 in SEC play at Kyle Field, and 17-9 in SEC play outside of Kyle Field. That is a 36% SEC win percentage at Kyle and 65% SEC win percentage otherwise.

Makes me nauseous to see Baylor on the list with 2 championships.

Sorry for the long reply to your general point, but I was pointing out that Kevin Sumlin had a few horrible road loses in addition to numerous home loses. For example, in 2014, Alabama slaughtered Texas A&M 59-0, and no other SEC team lost to Alabama by more than 21 during the regular season. Yes, Kevin Sumlin had a huge discrepancy in winning SEC games at Kyle Field vs SEC games away from Kyle Field. Of course, his 17-9 SEC record away from Kyle Field included going 4-0 against Arkansas at Jerry World. In true SEC road games, he went 13-9 (0.591), which is still significantly higher than his 8-14 (0.364) record in SEC home games. If we had continued to play Arkansas at the campuses, his SEC records would be 10-14 (0.417) at home and 15-9 (0.625) on the road.

Yeah, Baylor won the Big 12 Championship in 2013 and lost to UCF 52-42 in the Fiesta Bowl. A year later, they shared the Big 12 Championship with TCU and lost the Cotton Bowl to Michigan State 42-41. After a six-year absence from 2011-2016, the Big 12 brought back the conference championship game. Last year, Baylor lost to Oklahoma 30-23 in the Big 12 Championship Game and Georgia 26-14 in the Sugar Bowl. So, Baylor has actually played in three BCS or NY6 bowls in the past decade.

TCU has played in two BCS or NYG bowls duirng that span. In 2010, TCU won the Mountain West and defeated Big Ten co-champion Wisconsin 21-19 in the Sugar Bowl. Four years later, TCU shared the Big 12 championship with Baylor and crushed Ole Miss 42-3 in the Peach Bowl.

I can't wait until we win 10+ games and a NY6 bowl. To make a NY6 bowl appearance this year, we will have to finish 10-2 in the regular season and the second in the SEC west. To do that, we would have to win all of the games we are favored in and beat either Auburn on the road or LSU at home. I also believe Jimbo Fisher will lead us to at least one SEC Championship in the next 8 years.