Texas A&M Football
Sponsored by

John Sharp says renewing rivalry not a priority

12,922 Views | 67 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by greg.w.h
Bird Poo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
SECTAMU#1 said:

Sharp caused the disparity problem. He knows that there is a two year lag in formula funding from the State for adding additional students. Now he is acting like it is the State's fault. Truly a disingenuous front to a problem he created.


If this is accurate, then Sharp is doing a fine job as a politician.
95_Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
In fairness, it's not really the lag that is a problem, its because the legislature gave tu an extra $55 million over formula funding last session because, well ... they are tu.

We are growing our student population and they are not so they didn't want to seem unfair to the poor sips.

Now he is trying to close that gap.
babyshark
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Who benefits from growing the student pop so much? Local business and politicians. Would love to know how much they've greased Sharp's dirty palm.
Texas A & M
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Aggies should be demanding an explanation from their legislators (from the article):

Quote:

The funding formula for higher education is based on student semester hours, rewarding institutions for educating more and more students. As Texas A&M University grew over time, the University of Texas chose not to grow, capping its enrollment. But last session, the Legislature funded UT as though it were still growing - to the tune of an extra $55 million per biennium. Before that, we had been funded equitably.

This year's proposed appropriation bills continue that practice.


As the legislature cuts higher-ed funding, UT has been given "hold harmless" funds. A&M has not. Why??
SECTAMU#1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Texas A & M said:

Aggies should be demanding an explanation from their legislators (from the article):

Quote:

The funding formula for higher education is based on student semester hours, rewarding institutions for educating more and more students. As Texas A&M University grew over time, the University of Texas chose not to grow, capping its enrollment. But last session, the Legislature funded UT as though it were still growing - to the tune of an extra $55 million per biennium. Before that, we had been funded equitably.

This year's proposed appropriation bills continue that practice.


As the legislature cuts higher-ed funding, UT has been given "hold harmless" funds. A&M has not. Why??
Last session, A&M received $25 million more in formula funding. tu's formula funding went down $25 million and then tu's non-formula funding was cut about $30 million. Then as described, tu got $55 million of hold harmless money. Looks like tu's government relations people got something than A&M did not.
levypantsEOY
How long do you want to ignore this user?
babyshark said:

Who benefits from growing the student pop so much? Local business and politicians. Would love to know how much they've greased Sharp's dirty palm.


I don't think it's anything that nefarious. Not totally anyway. Its my opinion that Sharp has a fundamental philosophy that more = better. A&M admissions/ governance has become about emphasizing quantity over quality. We have dropped year to year in most academic rankings following this philosophy. The sips have moved up. How? By seriously limiting their admissions- they have a smaller student body now than they did 20 years ago.

I understand that it's hard to tell a student "no." But that's life. Frankly in 2019 if you're not getting into A&M out of high school then chances are you were a pretty average student. Again, almost three out of four applicants are accepted... tu is less than 40%.

I believe a philosophy shift needs to happen, and quickly, to avoid becoming a diploma mill.
Sumlins Pool Guy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

I believe a philosophy shift needed to happen, a decade ago, to avoid becoming a diploma mill.


fify
BlackBear1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Given the different variables involved in the acceptance rate (to include the top 10% rule), seems it would make more sense to look at the quality of students. How have the average SATs, GPAs, etc. trended?
95_Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

I understand that it's hard to tell a student "no." But that's life. Frankly in 2019 if you're not getting into A&M out of high school then chances are you were a pretty average student. Again, almost three out of four applicants are accepted... tu is less than 40%.
We have a different mission as a land grant institution than does tu. They can be more selective as much as they want. They are trying to be the #1 rated public institution in the country. We are trying to educate more students.
Quote:

Land-grant universities share a core set of ideals. These include making high-quality education accessible, developing research and technological innovations that address the public good and infusing contributions to solving the world's grand challenges into the undergraduate experience.
https://evolllution.com/opinions/meeting-mission-land-grant-universities-21-century/

Law Hall 69-72
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
85AustinAg said:

I'll take John Sharp's vision for Texas A&M over TexAgs group think for $100 Alex...
You've been in Austin too long.
ontheway
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Texas A&M has never been not great sip
WTM
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If you are not in the top 10%, you can apply to Texas A&M through academic admission. To gain entry this way, you have to be top 25% and have at least a 1360 SAT or 30 ACT. This is significantly more difficult than when I graduated high school in the early 90's. Then a 1050 was all you needed for instate. Part of the reason you see a 70% acceptance rate now is that students don't bother to apply who are not likely to be admitted.

Wall Street Journal (top 20), Forbes (best value in education), US News and World Report (moved to 25 from 27), Money has it at number 8 for pay checks, all have Texas A&M moving UP in rankings, not down. I really think many here have rose colored glasses when thinking of A&M in the past,. The campus has more National Merit Scholars than any other in the country.

Texas A&M has far more prestige and National attention as a University now than it did 20 years ago. Tell an Aggie joke to a current student now and they have a confused look on their faces. 18 year olds have not grown up hearing them belittled and don't understand the basic concept behind it.

Per Office of Admissions Website:
Academic Admits
You qualify for academic admission, if you:
  • rank in the top quarter of your graduating class on or before the application deadline, and
  • meet test score minimums
    • SAT: Total score of 1360 with at least 620 Math and 660 Evidence-Based Reading and Writing (EBRW)
    • ACT: Composite score of 30 with at least 27 English and 27 Math
Scotty88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
WTM said:

If you are not in the top 10%, you can apply to Texas A&M through academic admission. To gain entry this way, you have to be top 25% and have at least a 1360 SAT or 30 ACT. This is significantly more difficult than when I graduated high school in the early 90's. Then a 1050 was all you needed for instate. Part of the reason you see a 70% acceptance rate now is that students don't bother to apply who are not likely to be admitted.

Wall Street Journal (top 20), Forbes (best value in education), US News and World Report (moved to 25 from 27), Money has it at number 8 for pay checks, all have Texas A&M moving UP in rankings, not down. I really think many here have rose colored glasses when thinking of A&M in the past,. The campus has more National Merit Scholars than any other in the country.

Texas A&M has far more prestige and National attention as a University now than it did 20 years ago. Tell an Aggie joke to a current student now and they have a confused look on their faces. 18 year olds have not grown up hearing them belittled and don't understand the basic concept behind it.

Per Office of Admissions Website:
Academic Admits
You qualify for academic admission, if you:
  • rank in the top quarter of your graduating class on or before the application deadline, and
  • meet test score minimums
    • SAT: Total score of 1360 with at least 620 Math and 660 Evidence-Based Reading and Writing (EBRW)
    • ACT: Composite score of 30 with at least 27 English and 27 Math

My son went to a small Catholic high school with 28 people in his graduating class. He was 3rd in his class, had 7 AP credits, 1340 on the SAT, had over 600 service hours, was an Eagle Scout, and 2 sport letter man for 4 years, but didn't qualify for admission based on the 10% rule or the Academic admissions.

He applied under the "holistic" review and got admitted through the Blinn Team program.

He join the Corps, just got his ring ordered as a Junior with 98 hours and has a 3.85 GPA in Forensics.

In comparison, in 1984 I was in the 23% percentile of my HS class, had a 1020 on the SAT and was accepted automatically because I was in the top 25% and had over a 950.

All things similar, in this day and time I would have probably ended up in Sam Houston studying Criminal Justice. Instead I became an Aggie and eventually graduated from vet school.

It is BS to think that A&M is a diploma mill. I certainly is not easier to get admission, if anything it is much harder.


APHIS AG
How long do you want to ignore this user?
levypantsEOY said:

Noble07 said:

Quote:

I've talked to length with one of our admission officials as to how difficult it is to deliver the message that the son or daughter of an Aggie graduate won't be admitted.
You lose me here. If we continue down this road, I am not sure that my sons or daughter will want to attend A&M. 100k+ students with a flipped classroom doesn't appeal to me. The UT system has grown UT-Dallas and UT-San Antonio into respectable institutions.


This exactly. "Legacies" should not get in because their parents got in. Sharp has this philosophy that we are a university for all students in our great state. More = better. Which is why we are falling in academic rankings across almost every single discipline. Who is proud to go to a school that lets in over 70% of its applicants. That's a garbage way to run a school if you want the diploma to have any sort of prestige attached to it.
Texas A&M stopped giving preferential treatment to legacies in 2004.
Dr. Nefario
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A&M has a 70% admission rate because it is very open with its admissions criteria. Almost anyone can go to the admissions website and find out if they will or won't be admitted. Nobody is going to put up the $50 or so to apply if they know they're not getting in. The only exception to this are the kids who are just under the minimum who take their chances with holistic review. The admission rate is high because the would-be rejects aren't bothering to apply.

A&M also counts Blinn Team admits the same as regular admits. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think the admission rate drops to around 50% when only counting students granted full admission.

I saw an analogy of a hypothetical school that is known for only accepting high school valedictorians. The acceptance rate would be 100% because no one who wasn't valedictorian would bother to apply. But that school must suck because the acceptance rate is so high, right?
Sumlins Pool Guy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Haven't they changed the sat scoring system?
WTM
How long do you want to ignore this user?
They did change it and then changed it back. Math and Verbal are back on an 800 point scale per side, so 1600 total. The essay portion is viewed seperately. A 1380 today is the same out of 1600 as a 1380 in 1989 or 1999
SchizoAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
WTM said:

They did change it and then changed it back. Math and Verbal are back on an 800 point scale per side, so 1600 total. The essay portion is viewed seperately. A 1380 today is the same out of 1600 as a 1380 in 1989 or 1999
The difficulty changes over time, though, and they sometimes rescale the scores from previous years to compensate. When I graduated high school in 1993, I had a [x] on the SAT. By the time I graduated from A&M, it was noted as [x + 70] in my official record.

Edit: Removed raw scores.
test sig
BattleCattle
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

Texas A&M University/Acceptance rate

66.6% 201516
Quote:

36 percent -- When applying to University of Texas--Austin, it's important to note the application deadline is Dec. 1. The application fee at University of Texas--Austin is $75. Scores for either the ACT or SAT test are due Dec. 31. It is more selective, with an acceptance rate of 36 percent.
BattleCattle
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BattleCattle said:

Quote:

Texas A&M University/Acceptance rate

66.6% - 201516
Quote:

36 percent -- When applying to University of Texas--Austin, it's important to note the application deadline is Dec. 1. The application fee at University of Texas--Austin is $75. Scores for either the ACT or SAT test are due Dec. 31. It is more selective, with an acceptance rate of 36 percent.

Quote:

Texas Tech University/Acceptance rate

63.1% - 201516
technoviking
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
What are you insinuating?
Sgt. Schultz
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
What someone alluded to earlier about growing and enhancing the status of system schools should be a top priority. A&M Corpus Christi, A&M Commerce, etc..... should receive more funding and try to elevate their academic and research university status.

California, for all its problems, has a many Tier 1 public universities.....UCLA, UC-San Diego, UC Santa Barbara, UC Irvine, UC Davis, and the main Berkeley campus are all public Tier 1 schools. Texas has 2 schools that are Tier 1, sippy and us. Sharp should devote much of his focus on this issue because the crazy growth Aggieland has had is not sustainable.
rootube
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
levypantsEOY said:

greg.w.h said:


My daughter just graduated in December. It's just as competitive now as it has been to get into the more valuable degrees.


That's factually incorrect. Admissions accepts over 70% of applicants, which is more than it has been in decades. That is not okay.
First off greg.w.h, congratulations on your daughter graduating from Texas A&M. Despite what all these knuckleheads say that is a great accomplishment and I am sure you are very proud.

Second admission rate it a completely dumb way to measure the value our University. We are better now that we have ever been and Sharp is doing an outstanding job. The only issue even worth discussing as it relates to college education is the insane spiraling costs. Cost will be the undoing of the entire system A&M and the rest.
rootube
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BattleCattle said:

Quote:

Texas A&M University/Acceptance rate

66.6% 201516
Quote:

36 percent -- When applying to University of Texas--Austin, it's important to note the application deadline is Dec. 1. The application fee at University of Texas--Austin is $75. Scores for either the ACT or SAT test are due Dec. 31. It is more selective, with an acceptance rate of 36 percent.

I would say that they let you in, but given the average horn fan it's questionable that you ever attended college.
Texas A & M
How long do you want to ignore this user?
UH and UT-Dallas are really making strides. They're becoming great options for students that don't get into TAMU-CS or UT-Austin.

Currently UT-Dallas is tied with Alabama and Missouri in the U.S. News rankings. They're ranked ahead of LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Okie State.
Sgt. Schultz
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Texas A & M said:

UH and UT-Dallas are really making strides. They're becoming great options for students that don't get into TAMU-CS or UT-Austin.

Currently UT-Dallas is tied with Alabama and Missouri in the U.S. News rankings. They're ranked ahead of LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Okie State.
This is exactly why we need to enhance system schools such as A&M Corpus Christi, A&M Commerce, etc.... While they are good schools in their own right, not many folks know about them outside of their geographic areas. The system schools need to become "destination" schools as well. The students at these schools pretty much all consider themselves as being "A&M" and most root for the Ags. Churning out graduates at these schools will benefit the A&M system. I think that is the big picture that is being missed.

Sippy's main campus has pretty much capped enrollment while we have had a constant growth. Yet UTSA, UTA, and UT Dallas are now very respectable schools. There is a limit to how much we can continue to grow and not be thought of as UCF or Arizona State. With this growth, we have seen a decline in school rankings - its just the way it is.
rootube
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Dr. Nefario said:

A&M has a 70% admission rate because it is very open with its admissions criteria. Almost anyone can go to the admissions website and find out if they will or won't be admitted. Nobody is going to put up the $50 or so to apply if they know they're not getting in. The only exception to this are the kids who are just under the minimum who take their chances with holistic review. The admission rate is high because the would-be rejects aren't bothering to apply.

A&M also counts Blinn Team admits the same as regular admits. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think the admission rate drops to around 50% when only counting students granted full admission.

I saw an analogy of a hypothetical school that is known for only accepting high school valedictorians. The acceptance rate would be 100% because no one who wasn't valedictorian would bother to apply. But that school must suck because the acceptance rate is so high, right?
It would be interesting to know how many Blinn Team admits are students who want to go to A&M but went to high achieving high schools and could not get under the automatic enrollment quota? I currently live in a high achieving school district and I am shocked at how common it is for very smart Texas high school kids to go out of state because they can't get into A&M and UT. I don't remember going out of state being very common when I was in high school, of course that may be because I didn't go to a high achieving district.
SEC 2012
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The UT System has 3 schools now that have reached Tier 1 Carnegie Research Status - Austin, Dallas and Arlington. San Antonio isn't far behind.

Which TAMU system school would be considered second best behind College Station?
Sgt. Schultz
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I would guess its probably Corpus Christi in the next level. Below that is probably Prairie View, Canyon, Tarleton, Kingsville, and Commerce. A&M San Antonio and Central Texas are fairly new and have the potential to ascend above the smaller schools, as does Prairie View.

Regardless, I think system schools should definitely see additional funding to move toward Tier 1 status. Of course, it requires buy in from the corporate world. With the heavy petrochemical industry and being a major seaport, Corpus Christi should be in the best position to seek research endowment funds.
L8HIT
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Texas A & said:

Currently UT-Dallas is tied with Alabama and Missouri in the U.S. News rankings. They're ranked ahead of LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Okie State.
Wow.
Texas A & M
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Senator Paul Bettencourt of Houston has filed a bill exempting Texas A&M from the Top 10% Law.
TAM85
How long do you want to ignore this user?
More graduates= more voters with the A&M experience.
babyshark
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Texas A & M said:

UH and UT-Dallas are really making strides. They're becoming great options for students that don't get into TAMU-CS or UT-Austin.

Currently UT-Dallas is tied with Alabama and Missouri in the U.S. News rankings. They're ranked ahead of LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Okie State.

TAMU CS is becoming a great option for students who don't get into UNT or Tech. #diplomamill
greg.w.h
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
rootube said:

levypantsEOY said:

greg.w.h said:


My daughter just graduated in December. It's just as competitive now as it has been to get into the more valuable degrees.


That's factually incorrect. Admissions accepts over 70% of applicants, which is more than it has been in decades. That is not okay.
First off greg.w.h, congratulations on your daughter graduating from Texas A&M. Despite what all these knuckleheads say that is a great accomplishment and I am sure you are very proud.

Second admission rate it a completely dumb way to measure the value our University. We are better now that we have ever been and Sharp is doing an outstanding job. The only issue even worth discussing as it relates to college education is the insane spiraling costs. Cost will be the undoing of the entire system A&M and the rest.
My wife and I and the family (both her sibs and extended family) are very excited for her and proud of her. I wanted at least one of my children to go to A&M and she made the choice over UTD and the school in Austin. My first trip ever onto the Austin campus was supporting her. Within about 30 minutes she had her mind made up to go to College Station instead largely because she felt Texas A&M feels like a campus not a part of a city.

An improv team that works off of life experiences was practicing on me that weekend with this story and did a great job of framing up exactly how I felt: showed me being a mix of frightened and supportive as we were touring the campus then quietly jumping up and down and throwing my fists in the air when she chose to go to A&M. All true.

As to the admissions: we need to be very precise in how we view them. There is admission to the University which is essentially admission to the University Studies degree. Then there is admission to a specific degree program. The Top 10% auto-admissions are to the University Studies degree first and foremost and IF they qualify for another College then they could be admitted TO THE COLLEGE but not yet to the degree program. When I matriculated I was admitted to ChemEng directly in the fall of 1979. My daughter was admitted as an academic admit to the College of Engineering because she met their requirements. She considered M.E. and BioMedE and then applied and was admitted to CompSci before transferring to Psych. She had a better GPR than I had in her two years in Engineering. (I also transferred out of Engineering to Chemistry and then on graduation moved into computer science and information technology just teaching myself.)

UTD is not at the same level as Texas A&M, yet, based on what I saw, but the president at the time had really worked hard to turn it from a commuter school to a residence school and they have exploded their residence hall offerings especially for freshmen and sophomores. Their engineering labs are new and nice and have great equipment in it (the kind you learn on not that does the work for you.)

The idea that UTD is in position to overtake A&M is an incomplete thought. The idea that it is a very good university in a city (actually on the north edge of Richardson, not in Dallas at all) and it has a meaningful charter especially going back to its days as a graduate research center and therefore engaging post-baccalaureate students very well especially in computer science is a meaningful thought.

I do not see Texas A&M as a diploma mill. I do understand why people are concerned it could be viewed as one. The question very much is whether you believe the school's culture overcomes it's growth or is diluted by growth. I haven't asked my daughter if she would make the same choice again, but she is intending to do her graduate work elsewhere because she wisely thinks a broader learning base is better than a narrower one. I think we should ALL think in terms of exactly whether Texas A&M is an institution that is primarily foundational and formative or i deeply interactive with the student throughout lifelong learning. Today it is only foundational and formative in my opinion.
Refresh
Page 2 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.