Gyles Marrett said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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Gyles Marrett said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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Gyles Marrett said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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Gyles Marrett said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Michigan State got destroyed by Bama in the first round a couple years ago. Are they benefitting from that loss? I honestly don't know.

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Are you suggesting that they would be better off today if they had not made the playoffs a few years ago? Maybe they didn't take advantage of making the playoffs and the competition around them got better, but it doesn't make any sense that you would be better off not making the playoffs and play in a meaningless bowl game (that you could still lose by the way).

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I'm not suggesting anything either way. I don't really know. I think it would be an interesting study to take a look at them versus the 5th thru 8th ranked teams (basically the rest of the NY6 bowls) that year and comparing recruiting results.

There are so many variables though, that you would likely need many years of data to come to any kind of conclusion.

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I get what you are saying, and no making the playoffs doesn't automatically mean your recruiting will improve over teams that didn't make the playoffs that year (Ohio State didn't make the playoffs the year Michigan State did and we all know Ohio State is still out recruiting them).

But to me it seems backwards to suggest that not making the playoffs would lead you to have better recruiting and more success than if you did make the playoffs. How could going 12-2, winning your conference (most likely), and making the "final four" hurt your program?

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I don't think anyone is suggesting it would hurt a program. Both options are going to help your program. The question was which helps more. I don't think anyone is dumb enough to claim making the playoffs will hurt your program.

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Well if one option helps more than the other, then obviously one of the options has to "hurt" more than the other as well right?

We can always just agree that they both help and move on if you would like...

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That's literally what I just said. And the first part of what you said is ignorant to be blunt. If someone gives me a million dollars and gives you 2 million did they hurt me? So no, one option helping more doesn't mean one option hurts more.

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Would you rather have 1 or 2 million dollars?

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Dumb question, obvious answer....but you ignored the point. Did the guy that was gifted a mil get hurt? If so, feel free to hurt me like that whenever...

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Sorry guy, but I think asking would your rather make the playoffs or not make the playoffs is also a dumb question and obvious answer...

I'll rephrase for you though...

How could going 12-2, winning your conference (most likely), and making the "final four" help less than not doing all of that?

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The question was based on being a team that was in the debate and got left out when they had just as good of argument to be in the playoffs as the team that did get in....It isn't that outlandish to wonder if being that team and winning convincingly in the big time bowl you get put in does more than getting routed in the playoff game. Essentially both were equal but one got left out of the playoff. There's a lot of factors and I think a fair argument for your side. But it's really not a dumb of a question.

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We haven't even discussed the fact that UCF was number 12 in the last CFP poll last year and was not even in the discussion for making the playoffs....it was Ohio State at 5 and Wisconsin at 6 that got left out for Alabama at number 4...both Ohio State and Wisconsin won their bowl games and could not care less about those wins last year, trust me.

What is completely stupid and it happened for sure in 2016 is a playoff team losing and finishing outside the top 4.

TOSU went into the playoff as the #2 seed and finished ranked 6th.

That is completely asinine.

In 2015 Michigan state and Oklahoma both lost their playoff game and finished outside the top 4.

Complete joke.

So wait, OP is essentially asking, would you rather be a top 4 team or a 5 or below team, right?

Hmmm. Would I rather be the number 4 or 5 ranked team? Wow that's really tough OP.

Ragoo said:

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In 2015 Michigan state and Oklahoma both lost their playoff game and finished outside the top 4.

Complete joke.

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Well the AP poll and the playoffs are completely different things...the CFP doesn't do a final poll after the playoffs are done.

Michigan State was number 3 and Oklahoma was number 4 in the final CFP poll (which is all that matters because the AP is meaningless now).

HoustonAg2106 said:

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Ragoo said:

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In 2015 Michigan state and Oklahoma both lost their playoff game and finished outside the top 4.

Complete joke.

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Well the AP poll and the playoffs are completely different things...the CFP doesn't do a final poll after the playoffs are done.

Michigan State was number 3 and Oklahoma was number 4 in the final CFP poll (which is all that matters because the AP is meaningless now).

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i get that but AP voters should just rearrange the CFP top four following the results of their games.

Ragoo said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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Ragoo said:

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In 2015 Michigan state and Oklahoma both lost their playoff game and finished outside the top 4.

Complete joke.

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Well the AP poll and the playoffs are completely different things...the CFP doesn't do a final poll after the playoffs are done.

Michigan State was number 3 and Oklahoma was number 4 in the final CFP poll (which is all that matters because the AP is meaningless now).

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i get that but AP voters should just rearrange the CFP top four following the results of their games.

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I agree with you, but they don't care about the CFP...the way they think is number 4 lost and number 5 won so you have to drop number 4 and number 5 moves up

HoustonAg2106 said:

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Playoffs, all bowl games besides the playoffs are ultimately meaningless

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uhh... In reality all collegiate football games are meaningless.

This is a no brainer - would you rather be a top 4 team or worse? There's your answer.

Playoffs. Why is this even in doubt

Ragoo said:

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What is completely stupid and it happened for sure in 2016 is a playoff team losing and finishing outside the top 4.

TOSU went into the playoff as the #2 seed and finished ranked 6th.

That is completely asinine.

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That was exactly the point of the whole question but there's too much ignorance around here to realize it. Duh, obviously you'd like to end the regular season 4 instead of 5 and be in the playoffs. But I guarantee you there would be a lot of the brainiacs in here saying it's a no brainer choice that would be a lot happier with the state of the program if they finished 5th and beat the dog crap out of whoever in a big bowl so they could pound their chest saying we should have been in the playoff than they would be if we were the 4 seed in the playoffs and got completely crushed and finished ranked 6 or 7 because of it. Obviously the goal is to win it all but if you don't I'd rather finish ranked 3rd or 4th than 6th or 7th because a playoff blowout. You end the season winning and ranked higher yet there's others saying the obvious answer is to finish with a loss and ranked lower. I think there's fair arguments both ways but it's not as clear cut as some make it out to be.

It depends on which season A&M has. That's the one that's the better season.

Playoff

Gyles Marrett said:

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Ragoo said:

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What is completely stupid and it happened for sure in 2016 is a playoff team losing and finishing outside the top 4.

TOSU went into the playoff as the #2 seed and finished ranked 6th.

That is completely asinine.

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That was exactly the point of the whole question but there's too much ignorance around here to realize it. Duh, obviously you'd like to end the regular season 4 instead of 5 and be in the playoffs. But I guarantee you there would be a lot of the brainiacs in here saying it's a no brainer choice that would be a lot happier with the state of the program if they finished 5th and beat the dog crap out of whoever in a big bowl so they could pound their chest saying we should have been in the playoff than they would be if we were the 4 seed in the playoffs and got completely crushed and finished ranked 6 or 7 because of it. Obviously the goal is to win it all but if you don't I'd rather finish ranked 3rd or 4th than 6th or 7th because a playoff blowout. You end the season winning and ranked higher yet there's others saying the obvious answer is to finish with a loss and ranked lower. I think there's fair arguments both ways but it's not as clear cut as some make it out to be.

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It's not about what is going to make people on here happier because they get to brag at work and to friends, it's about what is better for the team and the program...

Maybe it's just going to take some time for some people to get used to this idea of what the playoffs mean, but this would be like Notre Dame saying they wish they didn't make the BCS national championship game and get rolled by Alabama in 2012 to finish 4th when they could have just rolled Kansas State in the Fiesta Bowl and finished 2nd....who on earth would say that? Making the playoffs is one game away from the national championship, playing in a non-playoff bowl will be forgotten the very next year regardless of who wins.

HoustonAg2106 said:

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What's a better recruiting tool...if you come here you will have a chance to win a national championship and I can prove it because we made the playoffs last year, or if you come here and win every game you will won't make the playoffs but you can play in a bowl game?

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I think this is a bit extreme.

We're talking about getting whooped in the playoffs. Most teams that get whooped just prove to the world they never belonged in the first place. If you are talking losing 34-31 to Alabama, then that's a great sell. But we are talking losing something like 45-10 to close out the year and try to recruit off of.

You can easily sell winning a NY6 bowl and saying we have a great team that can make the playoffs next year with you. But if you get beat 45-10, it's hard to sell that you are only one player away from winning it all.

Ultimately you always take going to the playoffs over not, but I can see the argument with the benefit of hindsight that it's actually harder to recruit off a blowout playoff loss and you can have more momentum winning a NY6 bowl game. Take us in 2012 versus Ou in 2015? We all knew after those games we were a top team that year and Ou was a pretender. We had more momentum as a program after our 2012 cotton bowl than they did losing to Clemson 37-17.

Ragoo said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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Ragoo said:

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In 2015 Michigan state and Oklahoma both lost their playoff game and finished outside the top 4.

Complete joke.

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Well the AP poll and the playoffs are completely different things...the CFP doesn't do a final poll after the playoffs are done.

Michigan State was number 3 and Oklahoma was number 4 in the final CFP poll (which is all that matters because the AP is meaningless now).

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i get that but AP voters should just rearrange the CFP top four following the results of their games.

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I don't agree. The goal as a voter at the end is to rank who you think are the best teams based upon all information. If a team makes it to the playoffs because of an easier schedule, but then once they get there show they aren't as good of a team as previously thought, they shouldn't be in the top 4. There shouldn't be any stipulations or requirements. Just because you made the playoffs doesn't mean someone has to think you are a top 4 team following the playoffs.

HoustonAg2106 said:

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Gyles Marrett said:

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Ragoo said:

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What is completely stupid and it happened for sure in 2016 is a playoff team losing and finishing outside the top 4.

TOSU went into the playoff as the #2 seed and finished ranked 6th.

That is completely asinine.

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That was exactly the point of the whole question but there's too much ignorance around here to realize it. Duh, obviously you'd like to end the regular season 4 instead of 5 and be in the playoffs. But I guarantee you there would be a lot of the brainiacs in here saying it's a no brainer choice that would be a lot happier with the state of the program if they finished 5th and beat the dog crap out of whoever in a big bowl so they could pound their chest saying we should have been in the playoff than they would be if we were the 4 seed in the playoffs and got completely crushed and finished ranked 6 or 7 because of it. Obviously the goal is to win it all but if you don't I'd rather finish ranked 3rd or 4th than 6th or 7th because a playoff blowout. You end the season winning and ranked higher yet there's others saying the obvious answer is to finish with a loss and ranked lower. I think there's fair arguments both ways but it's not as clear cut as some make it out to be.

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It's not about what is going to make people on here happier because they get to brag at work and to friends, it's about what is better for the team and the program...

Maybe it's just going to take some time for some people to get used to this idea of what the playoffs mean, but this would be like Notre Dame saying they wish they didn't make the BCS national championship game and get rolled by Alabama in 2012 to finish 4th when they could have just rolled Kansas State in the Fiesta Bowl and finished 2nd....who on earth would say that? Making the playoffs is one game away from the national championship, playing in a non-playoff bowl will be forgotten the very next year regardless of who wins.

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Decent example, but look at Ou 2015 versus A&M 2012 for an example on the opposite end. I'd rather A&M have gotten into a playoff(if they had one in 2012), but had we got blown out, that season wouldn't have had the same luster or momentum that it ended up having with the cotton bowl win.

So there are actually arguments supporting both situations described the OP being the best for that particular team. In 2012, sure, I'd love to have had a chance at the playoffs, but if you told me we could have sacrificed our Cotton Bowl win for a guaranteed playoff loss, I wouldn't take it.

The OPs scenario is with the benefit of hindsight, and IMHO, there are countless examples of a team being better off with a bowl win than if they had been blown out in a playoff instead.

beerad12man said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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Gyles Marrett said:

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Ragoo said:

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What is completely stupid and it happened for sure in 2016 is a playoff team losing and finishing outside the top 4.

TOSU went into the playoff as the #2 seed and finished ranked 6th.

That is completely asinine.

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That was exactly the point of the whole question but there's too much ignorance around here to realize it. Duh, obviously you'd like to end the regular season 4 instead of 5 and be in the playoffs. But I guarantee you there would be a lot of the brainiacs in here saying it's a no brainer choice that would be a lot happier with the state of the program if they finished 5th and beat the dog crap out of whoever in a big bowl so they could pound their chest saying we should have been in the playoff than they would be if we were the 4 seed in the playoffs and got completely crushed and finished ranked 6 or 7 because of it. Obviously the goal is to win it all but if you don't I'd rather finish ranked 3rd or 4th than 6th or 7th because a playoff blowout. You end the season winning and ranked higher yet there's others saying the obvious answer is to finish with a loss and ranked lower. I think there's fair arguments both ways but it's not as clear cut as some make it out to be.

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It's not about what is going to make people on here happier because they get to brag at work and to friends, it's about what is better for the team and the program...

Maybe it's just going to take some time for some people to get used to this idea of what the playoffs mean, but this would be like Notre Dame saying they wish they didn't make the BCS national championship game and get rolled by Alabama in 2012 to finish 4th when they could have just rolled Kansas State in the Fiesta Bowl and finished 2nd....who on earth would say that? Making the playoffs is one game away from the national championship, playing in a non-playoff bowl will be forgotten the very next year regardless of who wins.

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Decent example, but look at Ou 2015 versus A&M 2012 for an example on the opposite end. I'd rather A&M have gotten into a playoff(if they had one in 2012), but had we got blown out, that season wouldn't have had the same luster or momentum that it ended up having with the cotton bowl win.

So there are actually arguments supporting both situations described the OP being the best for that particular team. In 2012, sure, I'd love to have had a chance at the playoffs, but if you told me we could have sacrificed our Cotton Bowl win for a guaranteed playoff loss, I wouldn't take it.

The OPs scenario is with the benefit of hindsight, and IMHO, there are countless examples of a team being better off with a bowl win than if they had been blown out in a playoff instead.

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Well to that I would point out what was said earlier...would you rather make the NCAA tournament and basketball and lose in the first round or win the NIT? Even with the benefit of hindsight, most people would say make the NCAA tournament

I don't see them as equivalent though so that doesn't really work on me.

The fiesta bowl or even cotton bowl is not the nit. You're talking 65 teams versus 4. If the only good outcome to a season is making the playoff then we might as well not watch 17 or so of our next 20 years

Another way to look at it is this. Over the next 20 years you make the playoffs 8 times but lose all 8. Have zero post season hardware.

Or you can make the playoffs 4 times, go 0-4, and have 2 other orange bowl wins and sugar bowl wins separate from the playoff I'll take the hardware

That's a bit extreme just saying hardware matters more than losing in the playoffs all the time. Same goes for a single season depending on how strong the hardware is. Chick fil a bowl trophy? No. Orange bowl trophy? Yes

No one cares and most hardly even remember that notre dame was runner up, but I bet that fiesta bowl trophy would look nice in their display case.

beerad12man said:

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I don't see them as equivalent though so that doesn't really work on me.

The fiesta bowl or even cotton bowl is not the nit. You're talking 65 teams versus 4. If the only good outcome to a season is making the playoff then we might as well not watch 17 or so of our next 20 years

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I didn't say making the playoffs is the only good season, I admitted earlier they are both positive and helpful for your program...I just think that going 12-1, winning your conference and playing for a national title are better than not

If A&M is winning 11 or 12 games and winning the SEC are you really going to think it is a disappointment if they lose badly in the playoffs...you can still build off that

Here's another example. Also a bit extreme, just simply pointing out there are many examples where the other argument is better. Let's look at it from another teams persoecting we go against. Since we are talking program momentum.

What's harder for fisher to sell against. Texas wins out in their crappy conference and then gets beat 55-0 by Bama? We can easily sell that the only reason they made it was because the big 12 is easy and once they played an sec team got exposed

Or they go 10-2, make the sugar bowl, and beat Georgia? That's a tougher sell for Jimbo imho. We can't say they only won a lot of games because Texas can sell that they not only won in the big 12, but they also beat a top tier sec team

HoustonAg2106 said:

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beerad12man said:

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I don't see them as equivalent though so that doesn't really work on me.

The fiesta bowl or even cotton bowl is not the nit. You're talking 65 teams versus 4. If the only good outcome to a season is making the playoff then we might as well not watch 17 or so of our next 20 years

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I didn't say making the playoffs is the only good season, I admitted earlier they are both positive and helpful for your program...I just think that going 12-1, winning your conference and playing for a national title are better than not

If A&M is winning 11 or 12 games and winning the SEC are you really going to think it is a disappointment if they lose badly in the playoffs...you can still build off that

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Disappointment? No. As good as bringing home a top tier bowl trophy? Depends on the situation and season. You can make the argument that sometimes one is better and other times another. Is better

beerad12man said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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beerad12man said:

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I don't see them as equivalent though so that doesn't really work on me.

The fiesta bowl or even cotton bowl is not the nit. You're talking 65 teams versus 4. If the only good outcome to a season is making the playoff then we might as well not watch 17 or so of our next 20 years

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I didn't say making the playoffs is the only good season, I admitted earlier they are both positive and helpful for your program...I just think that going 12-1, winning your conference and playing for a national title are better than not

If A&M is winning 11 or 12 games and winning the SEC are you really going to think it is a disappointment if they lose badly in the playoffs...you can still build off that

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Disappointment? No. As good as bringing home a top tier bowl trophy? Depends on the situation and season. You can make the argument that sometimes one is better and other times another. Is better

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Well we'll probably just have to agree to disagree, but I'm pretty sure most people agree with me that making the playoffs is better even if you know you're going to lose in hindsight...the playoffs are just to knew for some to realize the impact of that right now

In total, all of these comments expose the futility of making big time college football into a quest to KNOW who is BEST. Can't be done. You can know who wins a game. That's it.