In the game of football, lack of discipline will cripple a more skilled team. They will be beaten by a less skilled but more disciplined team. Lack of discipline in any area, in any position group, in coaching, on offense or defense is contagious.

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Remember son... Discipline!

The pics in the first half were not keenums fault, if I remember 2 bounced off receivers hands. Their offensive line was decimated and that could not run the ball at all. They were forced to pass into 30+ mile per hr winds which caused any long passed to hang hence the reason for 6 picks. Uh also had played af 3 times in 2yrs so they were used to playing against the uh airraid

It's about the swag, not discipline.

CrazyDayDuck said:

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Ragoo said:

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Keenum tossed 6 INTs in that game. i assume that is all Sumlin's fault.

At this point, I think the vocal majority here just absolutely HATE Sumlin. Every GD thing is his fault and any success is someone else's doing. He is a no win coach in your eyes.

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I agree.

According to the Massey Ratings, we are the 46th best team in college football.

What more could Ags want?

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

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Way to jump to the extreme other end of what he is saying. You must be a married woman because that is the exact tactic used in every married couple argument I have ever been a part of or heard.

Coaches at most major programs walk a fine line nowadays.

They have to strike a balance between a good , fun experience for the kids and discipline. Imo, our coach goes way too far to the fun , laissez faire side .

Bama is the exception. Saban will get the athletes he needs even if the only fun that exists in the program is from winning games and championships. I'm not saying that's the case but if it was he'd still get the players.

cevans_40 said:

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CrazyDayDuck said:

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Ragoo said:

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Keenum tossed 6 INTs in that game. i assume that is all Sumlin's fault.

At this point, I think the vocal majority here just absolutely HATE Sumlin. Every GD thing is his fault and any success is someone else's doing. He is a no win coach in your eyes.

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I agree.

According to the Massey Ratings, we are the 46th best team in college football.

What more could Ags want?

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

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Way to jump to the extreme other end of what he is saying. You must be a married woman because that is the exact tactic used in every married couple argument I have ever been a part of or heard.

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Every woman you've ever been married to looks at objective computer rankings to see how good a team is?

CrazyDayDuck said:

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Ragoo said:

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Keenum tossed 6 INTs in that game. i assume that is all Sumlin's fault.

At this point, I think the vocal majority here just absolutely HATE Sumlin. Every GD thing is his fault and any success is someone else's doing. He is a no win coach in your eyes.

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I agree.

According to the Massey Ratings, we are the 46th best team in college football.

What more could Ags want?

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

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i am not sure what Massey ratings have to do with your obvious hatred for Sumlin assuming you believe he coaches an undisciplined team like the OP was alluding to.

Ragoo said:

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CrazyDayDuck said:

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Ragoo said:

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Keenum tossed 6 INTs in that game. i assume that is all Sumlin's fault.

At this point, I think the vocal majority here just absolutely HATE Sumlin. Every GD thing is his fault and any success is someone else's doing. He is a no win coach in your eyes.

---

I agree.

According to the Massey Ratings, we are the 46th best team in college football.

What more could Ags want?

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

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i am not sure what Massey ratings have to do with your obvious hatred for Sumlin assuming you believe he coaches an undisciplined team like the OP was alluding to.

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Do you know Sumlin personally?

Ragoo said:

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vander54 said:

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If you want to see if a team is disciplined you look at penalties.

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thru 3 games we have been penalized only 12 times. 19th fewest. Only 8 teams better who have played in 3 games.

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Yep and we are #1 in the SEC.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/911/team/offense/split01/category14/sort01.html

GoodOldAgs said:

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Ragoo said:

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CrazyDayDuck said:

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Ragoo said:

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Keenum tossed 6 INTs in that game. i assume that is all Sumlin's fault.

At this point, I think the vocal majority here just absolutely HATE Sumlin. Every GD thing is his fault and any success is someone else's doing. He is a no win coach in your eyes.

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I agree.

According to the Massey Ratings, we are the 46th best team in college football.

What more could Ags want?

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

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i am not sure what Massey ratings have to do with your obvious hatred for Sumlin assuming you believe he coaches an undisciplined team like the OP was alluding to.

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Do you know Sumlin personally?

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no, waiting for the hook now....

vander54 said:

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Ragoo said:

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vander54 said:

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If you want to see if a team is disciplined you look at penalties.

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thru 3 games we have been penalized only 12 times. 19th fewest. Only 8 teams better who have played in 3 games.

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Yep and we are #1 in the SEC.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/911/team/offense/split01/category14/sort01.html

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I added a comment about turnovers above too.

penalties and turnovers are sure fire signs of teams without discipline. Teams that go through the motions, teams that may be under conditioned, or lazy.

Ragoo said:

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GoodOldAgs said:

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Ragoo said:

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CrazyDayDuck said:

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Ragoo said:

---

Keenum tossed 6 INTs in that game. i assume that is all Sumlin's fault.

At this point, I think the vocal majority here just absolutely HATE Sumlin. Every GD thing is his fault and any success is someone else's doing. He is a no win coach in your eyes.

---

I agree.

According to the Massey Ratings, we are the 46th best team in college football.

What more could Ags want?

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

---

i am not sure what Massey ratings have to do with your obvious hatred for Sumlin assuming you believe he coaches an undisciplined team like the OP was alluding to.

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Do you know Sumlin personally?

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no, waiting for the hook now....

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Was an honest question. You are a very stout defender of him.

Ragoo said:

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GoodOldAgs said:

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Ragoo said:

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GoodOldAgs said:

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Ragoo said:

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CrazyDayDuck said:

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Ragoo said:

---

Keenum tossed 6 INTs in that game. i assume that is all Sumlin's fault.

At this point, I think the vocal majority here just absolutely HATE Sumlin. Every GD thing is his fault and any success is someone else's doing. He is a no win coach in your eyes.

---

I agree.

According to the Massey Ratings, we are the 46th best team in college football.

What more could Ags want?

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

---

i am not sure what Massey ratings have to do with your obvious hatred for Sumlin assuming you believe he coaches an undisciplined team like the OP was alluding to.

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Do you know Sumlin personally?

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no, waiting for the hook now....

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Was an honest question. You are a very stout defender of him.

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not so much a defender of Sumlin's, I am against wild and reckless accusations. often times blatantly false or malicious in intent.

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I don't think anyone here is attacking Sumlin as a man, many are upset with Sumlin as a coach and are voicing their frustrations. It's vain attempting to convince anyone to stop attacking him at this point, so let him defend his own honor by winning games. What people are saying about him on a message board are the least of his worries. He gets payed $5,000,000/yr, he knows this comes with the territory.

Per the above stats on turnovers and penalties, it would appear our players are disciplined.

Per our coaches never veering from the game plan or their game philosophies, it appears our coaches are disciplined as well.

So what's all the fuss about?

GoodOldAgs said:

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I don't think anyone here is attacking Sumlin as a man, many are upset with Sumlin as a coach and are voicing their frustrations. It's vain attempting to convince anyone to stop attacking him at this point, so let him defend his own honor by winning games. What people are saying about him on a message board are the least of his worries. He gets payed $5,000,000/yr, he knows this comes with the territory

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Just let that soak in.........................$5M a year!!! I'd take way less than that to blow big leads and chew gum!

Quote:

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I don't think anyone here is attacking Sumlin as a man,......

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Oh, that's totally wrong. Maybe not too much on this thread, but after the UCLA game there was lots of venom directed at him personally. Some were flat out calling him nasty names. Certainly not what you would expect from an adult or a university graduate.

LSB_2002 said:

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GoodOldAgs said:

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I don't think anyone here is attacking Sumlin as a man, many are upset with Sumlin as a coach and are voicing their frustrations. It's vain attempting to convince anyone to stop attacking him at this point, so let him defend his own honor by winning games. What people are saying about him on a message board are the least of his worries. He gets payed $5,000,000/yr, he knows this comes with the territory

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Just let that soak in.........................$5M a year!!! I'd take way less than that to blow big leads and chew gum!

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Because if he was paid 50K a year you'd be happy with the results? So many key on 5mm as if that actually affects the validity of game success or failure.

Why is paying 5mm for lackluster results so much worse than 9mm or more for an unknown?

LSB_2002 said:

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GoodOldAgs said:

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I don't think anyone here is attacking Sumlin as a man, many are upset with Sumlin as a coach and are voicing their frustrations. It's vain attempting to convince anyone to stop attacking him at this point, so let him defend his own honor by winning games. What people are saying about him on a message board are the least of his worries. He gets payed $5,000,000/yr, he knows this comes with the territory

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Just let that soak in.........................$5M a year!!! I'd take way less than that to blow big leads and chew gum!

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apply for the job. Let us know how that works out.

The other aspect that lack of discipline affects is team chemistry and allows prima Donna's/lazy players to disrupt and ******s the effectiveness of over all team play.

Time for a new coach. Let someone else pay Sumlin.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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Also, when properly executed, the triple option is an absolute work of art.

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Yep. I'd go a step further. When properly executed, it's indefensible. The whole concept is based on ISO and the runner wins that battle more times than not.

But you need some super smart, disciplined kids to run it.

I'll never understand sumlin defenders at this point. If t isn't obvious that he lacks the leadership and motivational abilities to take this team to true success, you're either not watching, overly biased or you know nothing about football.


I have always hoped sumlin would prove doubters wrong (myself included) and turn the program around. Instead we are watching the same thing we seen for the past 5 years. It's like groundhogs day, but Bill Murray never realizes what is going on. You don't get 5 straight years of evidence and maintain hope unless you are suffering from one of the conditions listed above.

Funny. This was the game that gave us all b0nerz because Tim Deruyter coached AFA's defense and we thought "look at how brilliant he is against the Air Raid! We'll dominate the Big 12!" It was all about Timmy D's genius, not Kevin Sumlin's shortcomings.

My how the turntables have... uh

Depends what you mean by "Sumlin defender"

If someone wants to make a rational argument against his leadership skills, specific coaching ability, or something along those lines; I'm fine with that.

Simply trashing anything he does or says without merit, or simply insulting him on a personal level.....yes......I'll defend him. As I would any person.

Ag4coal said:

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I'll never understand sumlin defenders at this point. If t isn't obvious that he lacks the leadership and motivational abilities to take this team to true success, you're either not watching, overly biased or you know nothing about football.

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what is so obvious? your statement is one of a matter of fact, but it is just opinion.

If it was all about discipline then west point and Annapolis would win the NC every year.