"Bottom feeders".

/every sip in 2011

Verne Lundquist said:

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Even though we've been also-rans I am so much happier to be SEC than be stuck in the big 12

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Its ridiculous that mizzou has had such a crappy record yet still been so successful in the east.

Slwdsm said:

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Its ridiculous that mizzou has had such a crappy record yet still been so successful in the east.

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They had the 2 years they made the SECCG in '13 and '14 but they've been hot garbage outside of that.

yep. it's why i said back in 2011 that we've already surpassed t.u. and Dodds, regardless of our bottom line$ at the time. Sports is largely for entertainment, and you cant really get any more enjoyment in college sports than as an SEC fan.

Not being in the same conference as you know who has been quite beneficial!

Never thought of it in those terms.

Also, holy crap Bama is .900 over the last 5 seasons in SEC play.

On the face of it, that seems impossible.

AnalogyAg said:

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yep. it's why i said back in 2011 that we've already surpassed t.u. and Dodds, regardless of our bottom line$ at the time. Sports is largely for entertainment, and you cant really get any more enjoyment in college sports than as an SEC fan.

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True. However, I would get more enjoyment out of being an SEC fan of we won more SEC games at home.

I heard a guy talking on a national radio show this weekend. His contention was that the SEC was no longer the top conference and it would continue to fall. Mainly because of the level of coaching. He said Saban was the greatest coach of all time. Everyone else in an effort to catch him continuously runs off their coaches.
He sighted this stat. (As we all know one off stats are misleading however this is interesting)
He took the top bowls which he defined as the Fiesta, Rose, Orange ,Cotton, Sugar and the 6 New Year's Day bowls. 11 bowls.
Pac 10, Big 10 and ACC all had 5 coaches that had won one of those games. SEC had 2. Saban and Sumlin. And Sumlin probably will be fired at the end of the year.

Just think how much better our SEC record would be had we gotten to play Tennessee more than once or if we'd ever get to play Kentucky. We've done pretty well vs. the East, but substitute that 2012 game vs. Florida for a game vs. Kentucky and the 2013 game vs. Mizzou with a game vs. Tennessee and suddenly we're 23-17 (.575) and possibly have an SECGC game (2012) on our record.

Then again, we haven't played UGA yet. Had we played them instead of Vandy or USCe at some point, that's likely another loss or two...but we're not going to talk about that.

Been in the SEC for 5 years. 21-19 conference record during that time. Last 5 years in the Big 12 had a 19-22 conference record. New address, same results.

It almost a carbon copy of our time in the big dumpster fire, amirite?

carbon copy said:

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Been in the SEC for 5 years. 21-19 conference record during that time. Last 5 years in the Big 12 had a 19-22 conference record. New address, same results.

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The competition in SEC is much much tougher.

carbon copy said:

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Been in the SEC for 5 years. 21-19 conference record during that time. Last 5 years in the Big 12 had a 19-22 conference record. New address, same results.

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Yea, but these B12 results are expected when you play powerhouses like Kansas, Iowa State and Baylor (before they got all rapey.)

But even still, if we have roughly the same on-field results...why not enjoy the ride (and the money) that comes with the SEC instead of being stuck traveling to places like Lubbock, Lawrence, Stillwater, Ames, Waco, Manhattan and Austin?

Luke The Drifter said:

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I think "also-rans" is a little harsh. No, we haven't been championship material, but it's not like we've been 2-6 in the league every year.

Arkansas, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mizzou (as of late)...those are your also-rans.

We've gone 6-2, 4-4, 3-5, 4-4 and 4-4 in our 5 years in the league. That's an overall SEC record of 21-19 (.525) which isn't outstanding...but it's not like we're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

In that same time frame, Arkansas is 12-28 (.300), South Carolina is 19-21 (.475), Kentucky is 8-22 (.200), Vandy is 14-26 (.350) and Mizzou is 19-21 (.475). Those are your also-rans.

Heck, Tennessee is only 15-25 (.375) since we joined the SEC. Auburn is 18-22 (.450), Ole Miss is 19-21 (.475) and Mississippi State is 20-20 (.500).

Others include Bama 36-4 (.900), LSU 25-15 (.625), Georgia 27-13 (.675) and Florida 27-13 (.675).

Ranked:

.900 - Bama
.675 - Georgia
.675 - Florida
.625 - LSU
.525 - Texas A&M
.500 - Mississippi State
.475 - Ole Miss
.475 - Mizzou
.475 - South Carolina
.450 - Auburn
.375 - Tennessee
.350 - Vandy
.300 - Arkansas
.200 - Kentucky

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Looking at this, I see four levels:

Bama dominant
Next top 3 strong
Middle 6 average
Bottom 4 weak

I would call anything outside the top finishers, including us, "also rans"

carbon copy said:

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Been in the SEC for 5 years. 21-19 conference record during that time. Last 5 years in the Big 12 had a 19-22 conference record. New address, same results.

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That result would put us 11th on that list instead of 5th. That is absolutely not the same thing at all. And it's being done against a lot better competition.

Some posters do not understand "also ran."

- Winner
- Runner-up (2nd place in championship game or runoff)
- Contenders (have had a chance but didn't make CG or final vote)
- and...lastly..."also ran" as in they also also ran in the race aka Never Had a Shot.

This was a great breakdown that I haven't thought of. And refreshingly positive. Well done.

Luke The Drifter said:

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I think "also-rans" is a little harsh. No, we haven't been championship material, but it's not like we've been 2-6 in the league every year.

Arkansas, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mizzou (as of late)...those are your also-rans.

We've gone 6-2, 4-4, 3-5, 4-4 and 4-4 in our 5 years in the league. That's an overall SEC record of 21-19 (.525) which isn't outstanding...but it's not like we're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

In that same time frame, Arkansas is 12-28 (.300), South Carolina is 19-21 (.475), Kentucky is 8-22 (.200), Vandy is 14-26 (.350) and Mizzou is 19-21 (.475). Those are your also-rans.

Heck, Tennessee is only 15-25 (.375) since we joined the SEC. Auburn is 18-22 (.450), Ole Miss is 19-21 (.475) and Mississippi State is 20-20 (.500).

Others include Bama 36-4 (.900), LSU 25-15 (.625), Georgia 27-13 (.675) and Florida 27-13 (.675).

Ranked:

.900 - Bama
.675 - Georgia
.675 - Florida
.625 - LSU
.525 - Texas A&M
.500 - Mississippi State
.475 - Ole Miss
.475 - Mizzou
.475 - South Carolina
.450 - Auburn
.375 - Tennessee
.350 - Vandy
.300 - Arkansas
.200 - Kentucky

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Don't confuse the issue with facts!

carbon copy said:

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Been in the SEC for 5 years. 21-19 conference record during that time. Last 5 years in the Big 12 had a 19-22 conference record. New address, same results.

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Those results are not the literal definition of "the same".

Verne Lundquist said:

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Even though we've been also-rans I am so much happier to be SEC than be stuck in the big 12

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You might want to qualify your statement.

Considering our entire athletic department we are easily one of the best in the SEC.

Here are some strange trends.

USCe has won 19 league games since we joined the conference. 12 of those game in our first two years. They've only won 7 SEC games over the last 3 years.

Mizzou's league win totals by year have gone 2, 7, 7, 1 and 2. Which would you prefer for A&M? The "steady" pace we've been on since we moved to the SEC or a 5-year stretch with 2 really good seasons and 3 colossally bad seasons? That's a tough call for me.

Auburn has a similar trend. Their SEC win totals over the past 5 years have been 0, 7 (the kick-six season), 4, 2 and 5. Not a lot of consistency, but they did have a championship mixed in there (2013).

Tennessee should be better than they are. League win totals for them have been 1, 2, 3, 5 and 4. We talk about our resources and how it doesn't translate into huge success. What about UT? They've been selling 102,000 tickets per game for 30 years (we've only been doing so for 3 years) but they can't ever seem to do better than the Music City Bowl and OT wins over Appalachian State.

But yea...A&M and Sumlin certainly should be doing better than we are. Those 2 losses to the 2 Mississippi schools in 2016 were absolutely inexcusable. But let's not pretend we're on the same level as Kentucky, Vandy, Arkansas and Tennessee. We've clearly proven to be better than 60% of the league.

2 games above .500, glad I didnt shell out any money to build that beautiful new stadium.

SECession!


We are now on a great launching pad. So when, not if, we get our act together and hire a champion HC, we will be far better positioned. We now have business partners who act like business partners, in a conference that supports its members.

Quote:

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I heard a guy talking on a national radio show this weekend. His contention was that the SEC was no longer the top conference and it would continue to fall. Mainly because of the level of coaching.

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Maybe. But before we even consider coaching, let's look at the other factors- access to talent and resources. The SEC footprint* has talent, and recruits want to play in the SEC. Most years, the SEC will have a personell advantage over the other conferences.

Better than half the B1G players come from outside the footprint. Figure a few of the top recruits want to play for Urban or Harbaugh. Most were not offered by their local SEC program, or were asked to change positions.

The ACC has FL and GA. More on that conference in a minute.

The BDF asks the state of TX to feed 10 programs, even though a lot of those kids can play better opponents at A&M or L$U.

The PAC has SoCal, and asks it to feed 11 programs (Stanford recruits nationally)


Resources

The quick-n-dirty way is to look a the Stadium size. Programs do not generally** build or lease stadiums they cannot fill. Most big-spending programs have at least 80k Stadiums. Louisville and Oregon are exceptions. Each has a very generous alum writing checks.

The SEC has 8/14 teams playing in 80k or better stadiums. Nobody else is close.

In 60+
SEC 13/14
BDF 6/10
B1G 8/14
ACC 7/14
PAC 5/12


Then, there is the TV money. We destroy everyone else. So, we have the money to build facilities and hire good coaches. We just do not have coaches right now. Unless Saban is blocking everyone else, that should change soon.





*80% of D1 recruits play within 250 miles of HS. "Footprint" is much less precise than calculating how much access each program has within its 250 mile radius. But, it is a starting point and must have strong positive correlation- as evidenced by the fact that half the B1G's recruits come from outside the footprint.


**Rice is an exception. Untarped, it holds 70k. But, it was built back in the 60s.

TLDR Stadium Capacity List


100k+ (4 in SEC, 3 in B1G, 1 in BDF)
Michigan
Penn St
Ohio St
AGS
TENNESSEE
L$U
BAMA
sips

90k+ (1 in SEC, 2 in PAC, 1 in B1G)
So Cal
UGA
Ucla
Nebraska

80k+ (3 in SEC, 2 in ACC, 1 in B1G, 1 in BDF)
UF
AUB
ou
Fl st
Clemson
Notre Dame
Wiscy
SCe

70k+ (2 in SEC, 2 in B1G, 1 in PAC)
Mich St
ARK
MIZZOU
Iowa
Washington

60k+ (5 in ACC, 3 in SEC, 4 in BDF, 2 in PAC, 1 in B1G)
Pitt-they share it with the Steelers, dont know if they fill it regularly
Va Tech
Az St
Miami- share w/ the Dolphins
OM
N Carolina
Cal
Iowa St
Virginia
MSU
KY
llinois
WV
tech
okie lite

less than 60k
NC State
Perdue
Louisville
Arizona
Georgia tech
Oregon
Colorado
Indiana
Minnesota
Rutgers
Maryland
Kansas
K State
Stanford
Syracuse
Northwestern
Oregon St
Utah
Baylor
tcu
Boston Col
Vandy
Wash St.
Duke
Wake