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Recruiting is Important But is Overrated

4,804 Views | 61 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by Syd_X_Barrett
yakman
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Salt has a valid point. 120 teams times 25 recruits is 3000 recruits. This year only 25 of those are 5 stars. The Rivals 250 has another 225 4 star but I have no idea if there are more 4s than that. If 225 is all the 4 stars there are 2750 three stars and below.

[This message has been edited by yakman (edited 2/3/2010 9:01p).]
GI
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The point is that 5-stars are great to have, but you can be successful without them.
NavyAg92
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AG
Well, lets take a look at figure skaters up North. When a figure skater is recruited by a college a lot of that athletes talent is somewhat related to the type of ice used in the rinks... nevermind.
sodiumacetate
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quote:
The point is that 5-stars are great to have, but you can be successful without them.


I guess it depends on how you define success. Every single BCS national champion has been made up primarily of 4 and 5 star recruits. If you are in a crappy conference and face little competition like Boise then yeah, you can win a lot of games with a good system. However, if you play in a major conference and want to have a shot at the title, you need the jimmy's and joe's.

[This message has been edited by sodiumacetate (edited 2/3/2010 9:26p).]
wlm
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Let's face it, it takes both great recruiting and great coaching ... i.e. Texas, Florida, USC, etc.
monarch
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S
Johnny Holland was recruited as a QB and what did he end up doing?

"Get your licks in while you can..."
yakman
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quote:
Coaches like Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Jim Tressel, and Brian Kelly have won right off the bat with the previous Coach's recruits where ever they have been.


Saban was 7-6 his 1st season at Bama and lost to La-Monroe at home. Bama had 3 top 20 classes the 3 seasons before he got there(#18, 15, 10). He pulled 2 straight #1 classes. At LSU he had to recruit the talent.

Meyer walked into Florida having inked the #2 and #7 classes the 2 years before he arrived. He pulled the #2 and #1 classes in consecutive years.

Tressel walked into a loaded team that Cooper couldn't get over the hump. Rivals' on-line record don't go back that far.

Kelley was 7-5 his 1st season at Cinci I have no idea on what talent was on hand or he faced in that conference.

Pete Carroll didn't make much noise at USC until his great recruiting classes matured.

B. Stoops inherited a loaded team from Blake and has consistently averaged the highest ranked recruiting classes in the Big 12 not MacIII. MacIII has to be looked at post VY's NC to find a 4 year span where he averaged a better class ranking than Stoops. Debatable if MacIII got better or continuous OU bowl failure bit Stoops in the butt.

These kinds of stats/correlation to recruiting is why I'm not sold on Pelini at NU yet. He walked into 3 good recruiting classes by Callahan.#5, 20,and 13. His success this year was on the backs of his upperclassmen that Callahan brought in. One of whom is the most dominate DT in a generation. What will 2011 hold for NU when all those guys are gone? Pelini's 3 classes are in the 25-30 range.




[This message has been edited by yakman (edited 2/4/2010 3:31a).]
HighPlainsAg
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Player development and recruiting good athletes have to work hand-in-hand. Remember, you can't get peaches from a mesquite tree. Well coached marginal athletes will,usually, not win consistently. Same with poorly coached superb athletes.
ttaghorn
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This thread reeks of "licking my wounds" since you didn't have a top 10 class as some rather insane individuals had predicted on earlier post. You lost a 5 star LB recruit on National Signing Day, which was sad, but this kid was poison, we at Texas knew it a year ago, if I had come on here and told you he was bad news you would have run me off the road.

Don't you wonder if this thread would have ever been started if you had just inked the #2 Class in the Nation?

Recruiting counts plenty, no if's, and's or but's about it. Star count is not the only thing about recruits but those that are rated 4 or above consistantly get on the field and play to a high level. Exceptions to the rule are every where in life, even in football. Tech's case is simply explained in the system they run, any capable QB that can throw the ball, can excell in that system, providing they can find receivers that can catch it.

You guys had a top 25 class, some services report it as #16, thats got to be a far better class than what you have been getting in past years. Take what you got, see if they will develope, and look forward to getting even better talent next year. As a note, you seem to have gotten a knock out OL coming on board, lets see if they are as good as reported in star class.
hardtimes
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In A&M's Big 12 history, the Aggies have recruited well enough to be much more successful than they have been. A&M's problem is that too many players are no better the day they leave Aggieland than they were the day they arrived. If Coach Sherman and staff can figure out a way to fully develop the players they sign, A&M can win a lot of big games by landing the #16 class in the nation year in and year out.
tcfitz3
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AG
If our coaching continues to develop players as it has in the past two years, we have much to hope for. The fact that we can get such a good class with such a lousy decade of field performance says a lot of GOOD things about us.

And the retro look at what happens to those 5 stars is quite instructive too.
Agnzona
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Just looking at the big 12 we have certianly been in the lower half in terms of "Coaching uP" our recruits.
rockylarues
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quote:
Tech's case is simply explained in the system they run, any capable QB that can throw the ball, can excell in that system, providing they can find receivers that can catch it


Which would imply that you have to recruit good QB's and WR's. You also need good OL to give you time to go through your progression. As stated many times already, it takes a combination of recruiting the right kids and coaching them up to achieve those performance levels.
Jeff George
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I'm pretty sure someone already said it, but it obviously bears repeating. Recruiting isn't overrated--the star system is. Pat Fitzgerald agrees.

quote:
"It's a very overhyped process," Fitzgerald said. "If you were to re-rank recruiting classes three years down the road, you'd get a truer (sense) of what these young men mean at the collegiate level."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0204-northwestern-main-football--20100203,0,1895805.story

Notice also that a certain site ranks USC as having the #1 recruiting class, while the Worldwide Leader ranks them at #7.
Lucas Jackson
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Who is Jeff George to talk about recruiting?

HE LEFT PURDUE FOR ILLINOIS AFTER ONE YEAR!


yakman
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quote:
Notice also that a certain site ranks USC as having the #1 recruiting class, while the Worldwide Leader ranks them at #7.


That certain site only measures by the top 20 recruits a school gets that year. Why they don't think the rest of a class are a factor I don't know.
BoyNamedSue
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OU was far from "loaded" when Stoops arrived - he fixed this issue to an extent by hitting the JUCO ranks early and hit on a few very key positions....mainly Heupel @ QB.
seanp39
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If I could kill 2 posts/arguments/whines on this board, they would be:

1. Recruiting isn't that important

2. Recruiting is important but all the rating services are biased, i.e. we are getting the studs but the world won't acknowledge that.

The first step in getting past both of these afflictions is standing in front of the mirror and repeating over and over again, "I am not a victim, I am not a victim, I am not a victim".
amercer
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AG
Everyone knows recruiting is really important. What is baffling is how A&M has had good recruiting over the last decade and has sucked anyway. According to our recruiting we should be the 3rd best team in the Big 12. Instead we have been closer to 9th for the last decade. So clearly recruiting isn't the only thing.
Citizen Reign
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Stars have nothing to do with it. The player a coach determines as a quality recruit is what makes recruiting everything. Who says TCU, Tech, Utah, aren't recruiting players? Rivals? It's easy for Rivals to pick a few 5 Star players. TCU goes out and finds top notch players with speed and upside. You can't coach speed and upside.

A player either has upside in the form of physical growth or he does not. Sure a player can be coached up, but he had to have had the upside all along. It's a programs job to identify those types. Rivals probably had them as a one or two star, while the TCU coaching staff could see the true "4 star" athlete.

Some folks act like Rivals ranking system is the word of God. How hard could it be to identify the countries 5 star players? "5 Star" or blue chip athletes are the difference makers and my grandmother could identify one of them from the top of the third deck at kyle. It's finding and recruiting team needs that makes recruiting everything.

"My advice to defensive players: Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in a bad humor."
--Bowden Wyatt
Carrot34
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The coach who can create the most excitement and enthusiasm in his player will win. Sure, it takes some athletes but enthusiasm and toughness can be taught... or generated by coaches.

For example the fable about coach Bryant had some truth in it.

"He can take hisn and beat yourn or he can take yourn and beat hisn". Sounds silly but it a fact.

I Support the Program win or lose.
TxAginAz
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AG
Urban Meyer won at BG and Utah right away before going to UF. And Pete Carroll won 7 straight to end his first season at USC and never looked back. And Saban's at bama predecessors had top recruiting classes and failed before him. And Tressel was winning titles with Youngstown ST before OSU.

Good coaching like that can't just be dismissed.



*********************************************************************************************************************
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."



[This message has been edited by TxAginAz (edited 2/4/2010 12:35p).]
GI
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quote:
Kelley was 7-5 his 1st season at Cinci


Didn't he win 10 games that year?
yakman
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He didn't win 10 in 2006 he went 8-5. Pardon my can't sleep middle of the night math.
TxAginAz
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AG
Yep, Kelly won 10 his first year and 11 in his second year at Cinci. I think Kelly only coached the bowl game in 2006. 2007 was his first full season as coach.

And they won that bowl game.



*********************************************************************************************************************
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."





[This message has been edited by TxAginAz (edited 2/4/2010 1:14p).]
yakman
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quote:
OU was far from "loaded" when Stoops arrived - he fixed this issue to an extent by hitting the JUCO ranks early and hit on a few very key positions....mainly Heupel @ QB.


Stoops did bring in key elements but a lot the talent was already there. But your point does get back to recruiting matters a heck of a lot.
yakman
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Y'all are right. Kelly took over after the 2006 season but before the bowl game. My mistake.
Syd_X_Barrett
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quote:
Stoops did bring in key elements but a lot the talent was already there. But your point does get back to recruiting matters a heck of a lot.


No, it WAS NOT. I'll keep posting this link every time I see this bullshat myth on here.

http://www.gnextinc.com/ou/nfldraftsooners.html

Notice the years that would correspond to Blake's recruiting classes and 2 of those were JUCO's that Stoops brought in. Blake left him with 4 draft picks & 2 of those guys were 2 star recruits. Over half of the 2 deep on their MNC team were brought in by Stoops in those 2 years.

Blake didn't leave shat. Blake's last 2 classes wouldn't have been ranked. Go back and look at the Fab 55 lists from those years and the number of guys OU was getting back then.
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