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Big 10 adding 12th team...

9,831 Views | 61 Replies | Last: 13 yr ago by NEINTXAggie78
hornyhoosier
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Interesting article about who they might want...

http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2009/12/27/the-big-ten-expansion-index-a-different-shade-of-orange/

I'm still thinking they go with Missouri, but the guys gives a compelling argument.
who?mikejones
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i wish he would have put TU at the top of the list so i didnt have to read all the way down to see he is full of ****.

tu would be the ideal candidate for any conference to add.

duh.
AgPrognosticator
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LOL

tOSU + UM would never ever ever ever ever let t.u. in on their parade.
Snowball
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Sabreman
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Ha ha ha! I didn't know it was April Fool's already. The sips would never abandon their dominant position in the Big 12 for a satellite spot in the Big 10. That guy's on crack. If the Big 12 broke up then the sips would look to the Pac 10, like they did when the SWC died.

Besides, the lege would never let them go.

Sabreman '92



musicman55
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The author makes some very interesting and compelling arguments...

I think it'll be Notre Dame. I think the Irish will see that the revenue landscape has changed markedly since the Ten last made a run at them, and the Irish will be very interested as long as the Ten don't make them do too many mea culpas for turning them down 15 years ago.

The arguments for Texas are good ones, but also arguments that very well may keep tu in the Big 12... mainly that the sips are used to running things and being deferred to. They won't get that in the Ten, no way in hell. They have much more consideration in the 12 than they do in the Ten. Plus, there may very well be political considerations here in Texas that, even with all their athletic money, they wouldn't be able to overcome.

It will be interesting to see how this thing turns out.

If Texas were to go to the Ten, let's hear some opinions on what happens, if anything, to the 12, and what should A&M do....
Bag
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if texas left, which is highly unlikely, the entire big 12 would implode.
p-wonk01
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there is a texas grad that made interesting comments regarding the longhorns fear of A&M joining the SEC as a big reason to keep them from the Big 10. Not saying we would be able to, but he made good points.
whiryno
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Its funny how people forget that tu already tried to get into the B10 in the 90s. As college sports become more and more of a cash cow, I expect in the next decade for the true "super conferences" to start forming unless a governing body that actually has all member's best interests in mind comes in (since the NCAA doesn't). "Super conferences" means leaving the dregs of revenue behind for greener (pun) pastures.

Personally, like one of the comments said, if tu went and tamu could get into the SEC, I can't imagine tu being able to stay on top of the recruiting landscape here, but their national audience may make up for it. Either us or ou would probably lose our rivalry game, however.
musicman55
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Wonk, I think your sip friend has brought up a very interesting point... I don't think the academic powers-that-be in Austin would ever allow the horns to go to the SEC... but the athletic administration probably recognizes that an A&M in the SEC would be much more trouble for them than we currently are....

This is not to say that our academicians would be thrilled over an SEC move either. But that's another subject.

I think that, purely for A&M's sake and future, we'd have to look long and hard at an overture from the SEC should the sips move to the Ten. Problem is, we'd be the odd-numbered team in the SEC... who else could they add that brought fans, money, etc to the table?
VikingNik
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Couldn't the SEC kick someone out? Maybe one of the Miss's?
shiftyandquick
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I hate tu. But I don't think tu EVER has to worry about becoming little brother to A&M.

It's a fantasy that A&M fans like to indulge in from time to time, but it has no basis in history or reality.
musicman55
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I don't think the SEC would kick out a charter member (MSU) to admit someone else, no matter who they are. Ten of the current SEC teams are charter members of the league, which was formed in 1932. There have been three members leave the SEC over the years... Sewanee (1940), Ga Tech (1964), and Tulane (1966). I don't believe any of them were kicked out, they just left for their own reasons.

I don't see A&M considering leaving for the SEC as long as Texas is in the Big 12. If Texas were to leave the Big 12, I think A&M would be open to an SEC overture. If Texas were to seriously consider going to the SEC, I think A&M would have to be considered in the discussion as well... political considerations in Austin would dictate that. If TX went to the SEC, we'd go too.

However, if A&M went to the SEC and Texas were to go elsewhere, I think A&M would insist that, as part of its agreement to join the SEC, that we'd be the only Texas school in the league.

[This message has been edited by musicman55 (edited 1/5/2010 10:42a).]
AgPrognosticator
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Shifty, I'll have to disagree with you fully.

From 1984-1994 t.u. was WIDELY considered A&M's inferior half in respect to football. A&M went 9-1 against the t-sips during that span.

Since then, the t-sips have come back to the forefront. Implying that we are dellusional by wanting to be "big brother" is pretty sad. I'm assuming you're a 20'something year-old and do not recall "reality" 15 years ago as you spoke of it.

DisTex
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Texas has a better shot at the MNC in the Big 12.

Beat OU and some whimpy North Champion and you are in the MNC game.

Now in the Big 10, tougher schedule. Harder traveling schedule. Add A&M and OU to non conference instead of cupcakes.
Maroon Dawn
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Being the sole Texas school in the SEC would do wonders for A&M overnight. However, the sips aren't dumb and as that comment implies, they know that however unlikely the scenario is, A&M to the SEC alone really is their nightmare scenario.
musicman55
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Lax, I think you're right... which would be the huge issue for the sips... IF the Ten were to invite them to join, the pressure for them to do so from many of their constituent groups (both athletic and academic) would be intense. There would be an opportunity here for A&M, IMO, to exact some concessions from the sips politically so we wouldn't oppose the issue in Austin. I do feel that, athletically, an A&M-in-the-SEC would be a tremendous challenge for the sips in future years, moreso than we are now.... and we haven't done that bad against them on an all-sports basis the last few years. The biggest problem Texas U. may have in going to the Ten might be... what kind of concessions would we have to make to A&M to get them to go along with it?
DisTex
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I would think if Texas goes Big 10.
You now are looking at 14 team conferences.

SEC would probably like to have aTm and OU.

I then see BU, OSU becoming C-USA.

TT going to MWC or WAC.

KU, KSU, ISU to big east.

NU and MU to Big 10 or Big East.

CU pac 10.
cox036
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SEC fan here.

IF the Big 12 were to get pillaged of its teams I can see a few scenarios.

I dont see Texas joining up with the Big Ten. IMO, too much of a stretch. I do think that Notre Dame will talk to Big Ten about joining. If the Big Ten were to propose to them an increase in 10-15 million annually from TV revenue, then ND would use that number against NBC when they renegotiate. IF NBC fails to keep up, then boom ND, is in the big Ten.

I can see Mizzou going to the Big Ten. It works regionally and offers an added boost to the flak that ND brings in. Alot of Mizzou fans living in Chicago. St Louis is a growing market.

The big powers of the Big Ten(OSU Mich Penn State) would balk at the idea of adding a heavy weight (Texas) into the mix. The only consideration it would offer is expanded recruiting base, but that are already going south for these kids.

I think the Big East escapes the notion of losing a team. There is just not much else there. Teams will want to have the ability to play for BCS games, if any of them moves up in ocnference that will be a tougher struggle.

If Missouri leaves, the Big 12 is on life support. They would look to add a team (TCU) but that will still leave them without a replacement market for the Mizzou loss. New Mex is nothing. Maybe Utah, but even that is a stretch becuase of....

The Pac-Ten... They have already said that they will look into expansion. Utah already works regionally, Salt Lake City market is a boost. Utah compete well in Football and gymnastics. Culture fits in well too. The same goes for Texas. I can see Texas in the Pac 10. Colorado as well, but they would be in a line ot join.

BIG 12 is officially gone. The SEC could look into adding two to three teams(drop Vandy - Their money rivals that of Notre Dame, they could actually gain from a competitive standpoint to drop into the Big East. The Big Ten has offered up the possibility of an expansion to 14 teams, The SEC would follow suit.

SEC would target Oklahoma, Tex ATM first. Opens up great fan bases and restores annual rivalries(OU-ARKY, Tex AM-LSU) Follow up with a third in an ACC school that fits in well culturally (FSU, Clemson, UNC).

Reallignment of the divisions with 7 between the east and west.

SEC west SEC East
OU Auburn moves over
Tex ATM Possible Vandy repacement.
MSU
LSU
Ole MIss
ARky
Bama

That is what it would look like after the dust settled. IMO.
musicman55
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I think that IF the Ten decided they wanted 14 teams, and IF Texas was one of them, that we'd be invited to join too. Our academics match up well with theirs, and politically it might be the only way to get the sips into that league.

So, who would be the 14th team?

IMO.... Notre Dame. The current Big Ten, plus us, the sips, and the Irish... WHAT A CONFERENCE.
UKAggie96
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If A&M went to the SEC, I wonder how competitive we would be - considering we haven't been competitive in the Big XII since 1998. Also, Texas going to be the Big X would mean ruin for the Big XII.

Personally, I am not that much of a fan of the Big XII for football anyway. My feeling is there are only 6 of the 12 programs where football is a major athletic draw on campus (A&M, UT, Tech, OU, OSO, Neb) - the rest are passive fans at best for football. Secondly, the Big XII doesn't enjoy the same sense of conference comraderie that the Big X and SEC enjoy. I believe a that has to do with 1) the age of the conference and 2) the fact that the Big XII incorporates people from different geographic regions - with people from Texas and Oklahoma more aligned as being from the Southwest and people from Kansas on up feeling more like midwesterners. As someone who currently lives in Chicago - there are subtle differences in points of few that shape peoples allegences to their regions of the country. The benefit the SEC has is that they are a conference of southerners and the Big X is a conference of midwesterners that tend to band together.

Who knows - but I think if UT goes the the Big X, then A&M should also consider the Big X for revenue, academics, etc...hoping that the Big X also decides to pick up a team like Pitt or ND to make it a 14 team conference.
musicman55
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Wow, this is getting interesting...

Cox, the only point I'll take issue with you on is the Vandy-out-of-the-SEC scenario. Vandy is a charter member of the SEC, and I think their leaving would have to be initiated by them... I don't see them doing that. Plus, having a private school as a conference member relieves the SEC of adhering to many of the open-meeting laws/regulations of the fed gov't. We've got the same situation with Baylor in the 12.

I do think, like UK, that geographic location plays a little larger role in any conference decision than a lot of folks might think, or want. Example: A&M is a lot better fit culturally with the SEC than the Pac 10... can't necessarily say the same for the sips, IMO.

These conference realignment discussions are all about the allmighty dollar, but I do think that the geographics are a consideration, also.
Twelfthman99
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Why do people want us in the SEC so badly? I can remember four games against SEC teams in recent years and we have only been competitive in one of them.

Here's a newsflash... those wins over Auburn and LSU were over 20 years ago. The SEC already has their version of A&M and it is called Mississippi State.
DisTex
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It's either SEC, a lesser respected Big 12 with TCU instead of Texas, or C-USA.

Take your pick.
musicman55
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I don't think it's so much that hordes of Aggies WANT us in the SEC, rather that this discussion is "what is the best move for A&M IF there is another conference realignment?"...

And, although I have great respect for Miss State, they are not our peer, either athletically or academically. Not even close.
amg405
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quote:
tOSU + UM would never ever ever ever ever let t.u. in on their parade.


exactly.
iceman08
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if the big ten took missou or nebraska... the chain reaction would hit everyone pretty hard :-/
wavodano
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There is even talk of the Big 10 becoming the Big 16. The first Super Conference. Not sure A&M would be selected to join though. Most likely they would go after Notre D, Mizzo, kansas, Neb, Okla, Tex or Pitt. If that happened I'm confident the SEC would bring us and a few other teams in. If not we would be stuck to a super Confernce USA or MWC. If thats the case I see us having more financial problems. On the bright side, we may win more games.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-17-big-ten-brite-dec17,0,3820862.story
jread07
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Right now Texas and A&M offer the exact same thing student athletes except for recent accomplishments. They play the same teams, are in the same conference, and are both the top academic school in the state.

Now say the two best teams in Texas play for two difference conferences. Texas Big 10…A&M SEC.

Say you’re a young man from Texas who wants to play football close to home (Preferable instate) so Mom can come see you. Your Choices are Texas, A&M, OU, Ark, and LSU.

Texas Coach tells you that you will be playing in the best Academic BSC conference. Plus you will be able to play in the Beaver Stadium, Big House and the Horse Shoe.

I would think my mom will only be able to see the home games and I’m from Texas I don’t want to play in Michigan/Minnesota/Wisconsin in November.

A&M Coach tells you that you will be playing in the best athletic BSC conference. Plus you will be able to play at Death Valley, The Swamp, Neyland, and between the Hedges.

I would think my mom can see all the home games plus travel to Ark LSU and Miss. Also, I grew up watching the Big XII and SEC.

I would think this would make top recruits think a lot more.

Though it would be interesting, I would not think it would be a fair fight for Texas Boys to play in the snow vs Midwesterns.


musicman55
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IMO, if the Ten went to the Big 16, and they wanted Texas, they'd offer to A&M too. We are compatible academically with the current Big 10, and politically if they wanted Texas it would be made clear to them that they would have to offer A&M membership, also.
UKAggie96
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Assuming the Big XII implodes at some point - I think the Big X would offer A&M more than the SEC as far as reputation, academics, research dollars through the CIC, national exposure and revenue. If given a choice between the two, i go Big X...

The SEC, as great as it is in football, is much more of a regional draw than the Big X - who has much more of a national draw with it's alumni more spread out across the country.....

Take football and tv - the Big X has its own network (2 channels in Chicago), it controls the exclusive slots on ESPN and ESPN2 at the 11 am hour, controls regional coverage at 2:30 on ABC and has rights to ABC night game - in addition to getting on television with Notre Dame on NBC for at least 4 games a year. Therefore, every week, every team, not just the good ones, are on television...as opposed to the Big XII, which shuts out schools like A&M half the year....

All of those things, regardless of how close we are to Louisiana & Miss, are much more attractive than the SEC.
hornyhoosier
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quote:
I think that IF the Ten decided they wanted 14 teams, and IF Texas was one of them, that we'd be invited to join too. Our academics match up well with theirs, and politically it might be the only way to get the sips into that league.

So, who would be the 14th team?

IMO.... Notre Dame. The current Big Ten, plus us, the sips, and the Irish... WHAT A CONFERENCE.


I think you are on the something musicman.

Your scenario has several appealing attributes:

1. The new 14 team conference would be the only one of such size. I think that fact is appealing to the TV folks.

2. People in Texas are, by and large, either longhorn or aggie fans (sorry tech). Having both in the Big Ten offers a complete lock on the second most populous state in the country. This is huge for the $.

3. A&M and Texas are the only big 12 schools (maybe CU but the Big Ten wouldn't want them) that are anywhere near the level of the big ten academically.

4. The division breakdown would preserve all the rivalries:
East: Penn State
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Notre Dame
West: Illinois
Northwestern
Minnesota
Texas
Texas A&M
Wisconsin
Iowa

I, for one, would love to see those matchups. The $$$ would be there. The academics of both state schools would get a boost.

And as to weather. Playing football in cold weather is fun. It's living day in and day out in cold weather that sucks.
musicman55
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I think you're on target hoosier. To me, here are the issues for the Ten:

1. If they want to expand by one school, then their best bet is ND. The Ten will play hell trying to take Texas without A&M.

2. The other option would be to expand by three... if one of those three is Texas, then A&M needs to be in the mix also. That leaves one spot, which I think should be ND.

3. You're right in that taking both Texas and A&M would lock up the second largest state in the Union for the Ten. No brainer.

4. Academically, both Texas and A&M stack up well. Both are AAU members... both are solid when comparing them to the current Ten members in the US News rankings... and A&M was just admitted as a Top 20 member of the National Science Foundation rankings for 2009. Penn State and Ohio State are also members of this elite group, and A&M is the only Texas school in the Top 20 of the NSF.

5. Texas and A&M are the flagship universities of the State of Texas, and although we are fierce rivals athletically we actually work together on many things, both academically and politically. We're "joined at the hip" in this way more than many Aggies or Horns want to admit.

This would be a hell of a scenario. The politics here in Texas would make a Texas U.-only move to the Ten very difficult... but then, adding both would necessitate adding a 14th school to the Ten, which would present issues of its own.
weatherford
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People may not like to hear this but if texas leaves, this conference will fall apart.

They are the marquee team in the conference. they have the top bb, football, baseball program. They have the greatest following, most TVs, most revenue.

If the went to the big 10, they will be the top dog. There is no denying this. What program in the big X can top them?

Hell... if they went to the MWC, the MWC would get an automatic bid in the BCS bowls.
Twelfthman99
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Whatever, dude... If you want to believe it or not, our success in the SEC would be on par with Miss. State. We have been irrelevant for a decade with little sign of improvement in the near future. We have to hope for programs in our conference to implode to have hopes that we can get better. We do less with more than any team in America.
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