Purple Hearts (inventory from WW2 still being used)

1,838 Views | 17 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by JABQ04
nortex97
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I just thought this was interesting. Incredible reminder of the scale of death expected if we had to invade Japan.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/176762
Quote:

As for the most recently minted medals, they, like those manufactured in 2000, are functionally identical to the refurbished 1945 medals which had their ribbons and clasps replaced before being place in the sleek plastic presentation cases that replaced the original World War II-era "coffin boxes."

All medals, old or new, are considered part of the same stock for inventory purposes and some portion of the new production is undoubtedly mixed in with the refurbished oldsters ready for immediate distribution by the Armed Services --- not that anyone other than a specialist in the decoration would be able to tell them apart.

An important thing to consider on this 75th anniversary of the war's end is that when Harry S. Truman became president following Roosevelt's death in April, 1945, Americans from Walhalla, Texas, to Washington, DC, believed America to be in the middle of the war.

Nazi Germany had been defeated at a terrible cost and now the final battles with Imperial Japan loomed. The initial invasion operation of Operation Downfall would be launched before Christmas 1945 and all wondered who would survive to sail home beneath "the Golden Gate in '48" after more years of brutal combat.

By July 1945, the US Army and Army Air Force had already suffered more than 945,000 all-causes casualties. As early as January that year the New York Times printed the dire warning of General George C Marshall and Admiral Ernest J. King that ''The Army must provide 600,000 replacements for overseas theaters before June 30, and, together with the Navy, will require a total of 900,000 inductions by June 30.''

To meet these needs, the Army had organized a 100,000 men-per-month ''replacement stream'' for the coming one-front war against Japan and the Army's figures, of course, did not include Navy and Marine casualties.

Meanwhile, some War Department estimates indicated that the number of Japanese dead could reach between five to 10 million, with the possibility of 1.7 million to as many as four million American killed, wounded, and missing to combat, disease, and accidents if the worst case scenarios based on the recent Iwo Jima and Okinawa battles came true. Across the Pacific, the ultimate casualty figure being circulated within imperial circles in Tokyo was 20 million --- a fifth of Japan's population.

Among the fantastic quantity of war supplies to support the young Americans grimly facing the coming Armageddon were the Purple Hearts awarded into the twenty-first century despite their production being cut short by Japan's sudden and unexpected surrender.

Many of the World War II veterans, still alive fifty years after the war, were keenly interested in the fact that a huge quantity of medals had been discovered in a government warehouse and readied for future use. Chief among them were those who had worked with the Smithsonian Institution on the 50th Anniversary display of the Enola Gay, the B-29 bomber that dropped the atom bomb on Hiroshima.

Controversy had erupted over the Smithsonian's presentation at the National Air and Space Museum, when veterans protested that the multimedia display and exhibit script was crafted in a way that portrayed the Japanese as victims, and not instigators, of the war.

The veterans were heavily criticized in some academic circles for their insistence that the dropping of the atom bomb had ended the war quickly and ultimately saved countless thousands of American --- and Japanese --- lives during an invasion.

When learning of the rediscovered medals and new production after the Smithsonian fiasco, Jim Pattillo, president of the 20th Air Force Association stated that, "detailed information on the kind of casualties expected would have been a big help in demonstrating to modern Americans that those were very different times."

Medical and training information in "arcanely worded military documents can be confusing," said Pattillo, "but everyone understands a half-million Purple Hearts."

But perhaps the most poignant appreciations came from a Vietnam vet --- with a grandson and nephew in the Army today --- who learned for the first time that he had received a medal minted for the fathers of he and his buddies.

"I will never look at my Purple Heart the same way again," he said.
With perhaps as many as 60,000 of the World War II production still spread throughout the system, it's possible that some unknown number will still be available another 75 years from now. Let's hope that all are.
CanyonAg77
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AG
Often heard this stated, never seen it confirmed before.

Dad turned 17 in January 1946, I have little doubt he would have been drafted for Olympic, and you guys might not had to put up with me.
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Cen-Tex
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Recently buried a relative with his Purple Heart medal. Still in pristine condition.
CT'97
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I wonder if there is a way to tell by looking at them if they were refurbished or new production.
Texas A&M - 144 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress.
CanyonAg77
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CT'97 said:

I wonder if there is a way to tell by looking at them if they were refurbished or new production.
From the OP, it appears they are getting new ribbons, with the metal part being refinished. Maybe there is a manufacturer or date stamped on the back of the metal?
BQ_90
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nortex97 said:

I just thought this was interesting. Incredible reminder of the scale of death expected if we had to invade Japan.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/176762
Quote:

As for the most recently minted medals, they, like those manufactured in 2000, are functionally identical to the refurbished 1945 medals which had their ribbons and clasps replaced before being place in the sleek plastic presentation cases that replaced the original World War II-era "coffin boxes."

All medals, old or new, are considered part of the same stock for inventory purposes and some portion of the new production is undoubtedly mixed in with the refurbished oldsters ready for immediate distribution by the Armed Services --- not that anyone other than a specialist in the decoration would be able to tell them apart.

An important thing to consider on this 75th anniversary of the war's end is that when Harry S. Truman became president following Roosevelt's death in April, 1945, Americans from Walhalla, Texas, to Washington, DC, believed America to be in the middle of the war.

Nazi Germany had been defeated at a terrible cost and now the final battles with Imperial Japan loomed. The initial invasion operation of Operation Downfall would be launched before Christmas 1945 and all wondered who would survive to sail home beneath "the Golden Gate in '48" after more years of brutal combat.

By July 1945, the US Army and Army Air Force had already suffered more than 945,000 all-causes casualties. As early as January that year the New York Times printed the dire warning of General George C Marshall and Admiral Ernest J. King that ''The Army must provide 600,000 replacements for overseas theaters before June 30, and, together with the Navy, will require a total of 900,000 inductions by June 30.''

To meet these needs, the Army had organized a 100,000 men-per-month ''replacement stream'' for the coming one-front war against Japan and the Army's figures, of course, did not include Navy and Marine casualties.

Meanwhile, some War Department estimates indicated that the number of Japanese dead could reach between five to 10 million, with the possibility of 1.7 million to as many as four million American killed, wounded, and missing to combat, disease, and accidents if the worst case scenarios based on the recent Iwo Jima and Okinawa battles came true. Across the Pacific, the ultimate casualty figure being circulated within imperial circles in Tokyo was 20 million --- a fifth of Japan's population.

Among the fantastic quantity of war supplies to support the young Americans grimly facing the coming Armageddon were the Purple Hearts awarded into the twenty-first century despite their production being cut short by Japan's sudden and unexpected surrender.

Many of the World War II veterans, still alive fifty years after the war, were keenly interested in the fact that a huge quantity of medals had been discovered in a government warehouse and readied for future use. Chief among them were those who had worked with the Smithsonian Institution on the 50th Anniversary display of the Enola Gay, the B-29 bomber that dropped the atom bomb on Hiroshima.

Controversy had erupted over the Smithsonian's presentation at the National Air and Space Museum, when veterans protested that the multimedia display and exhibit script was crafted in a way that portrayed the Japanese as victims, and not instigators, of the war.

The veterans were heavily criticized in some academic circles for their insistence that the dropping of the atom bomb had ended the war quickly and ultimately saved countless thousands of American --- and Japanese --- lives during an invasion.

When learning of the rediscovered medals and new production after the Smithsonian fiasco, Jim Pattillo, president of the 20th Air Force Association stated that, "detailed information on the kind of casualties expected would have been a big help in demonstrating to modern Americans that those were very different times."

Medical and training information in "arcanely worded military documents can be confusing," said Pattillo, "but everyone understands a half-million Purple Hearts."

But perhaps the most poignant appreciations came from a Vietnam vet --- with a grandson and nephew in the Army today --- who learned for the first time that he had received a medal minted for the fathers of he and his buddies.

"I will never look at my Purple Heart the same way again," he said.
With perhaps as many as 60,000 of the World War II production still spread throughout the system, it's possible that some unknown number will still be available another 75 years from now. Let's hope that all are.

I think the film shot on all these island battles need to be shown in school with all the graphic reality. We are letting modern historians scrub the brutality of the Pacific campaign.
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JABQ04
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CanyonAg77 said:

CT'97 said:

I wonder if there is a way to tell by looking at them if they were refurbished or new production.
From the OP, it appears they are getting new ribbons, with the metal part being refinished. Maybe there is a manufacturer or date stamped on the back of the metal?


I dont see one.
bkag9824
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Grandpa (98 and still kicking it) had just finished flight school/pre-deployment and was flying west over the Pacific when they dropped the first bomb.

Of his potential involvement in the air war: "I was scared ****less and glad the war was over."

He went on to serve in several other theaters, seeing significant combat as a rescue pilot, and ultimately retired a Lt. Colonel.
BQ_90
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bkag9824 said:

Grandpa (98 and still kicking it) had just finished flight school/pre-deployment and was flying west over the Pacific when they dropped the first bomb.

Of his potential involvement in the air war: "I was scared ****less and glad the war was over."

He went on to serve in several other theaters, seeing significant combat as a rescue pilot, and ultimately retired a Lt. Colonel.
it's amazing, if you believe the revisionist historians that the bomb wasn't needed, why was the US putting so much effort to get troops trained, transported, and moved to the Pacific theater? Even troops in Europe where being trained to redeploy.
Aggie12B
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Revionist historians who say the bomb shouldn't have used are out of their damned minds. If we would have invaded the 4 main islands of Japan (Honshu, Hokkaido, Shikoku, and Kyushu) the death toll of both sides combined would have been well in the millions.
AllTheFishes
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Aggie12B said:

mistaken post
Sorry, didn't notice my wifes account was still logged in.
CT'97
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Quote:

Aggie12B said:
Revionist historians who say the bomb shouldn't have used are out of their damned minds. If we would have invaded the 4 main islands of Japan (Honshu, Hokkaido, Shikoku, and Kyushu) the death toll of both sides combined would have been well in the millions.
There were plenty of people at the time that felt it was unnecessary. That list included Adm. Nimitz, who was never quoted personally but after his death his wife stated he disagreed with dropping the bomb because we had already beat them. Adm. Halsey was more forth right, probably because he was getting out of the Navy and was a bit of a media darling and called it an "unnecessary experiment."

The whole push for the invasion was largely a McArther campaign and some of the Navy arguing against the use could have been inter-service rivalry coming through, but I'm not sure I believe that. It's clear to me that the top Navy admirals felt that we had beat them and it was just a mater of time. No need to invade or drop the bomb. Remember we killed more people and destroyed more square miles of Japanese cities in the fire bombings the previous months than either of the bombs did.

The shifting of the Russians pushing troops into northern Japanese islands also added pressure on the Japanese government.
Texas A&M - 144 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress.
30wedge
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Just looked at my dad's Purple Heart and no date is on the back. I have that Purple Heart from his service on Tarawa and the letter from Julian C. Smith that accompanied it at that time, He was wounded again on Saipan but nothing additional for that one. I have his dog tags. When he went in, they were still putting the fingerprint on the back of the dog tag.

He was on Tinian when the war ended. I don't know about McArthur, or Halsey, or Nimitz or those whose role was away from the action, but I bet if you polled the guys who were the ones about to do the dying, the vote would have been nearly unanimous for the use of the atomic bombs.
OldArmy71
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Quote:

it was just a matter of time
The war continued during this "time."

British and American POWs continued to die. (My uncle was one of them.)

200,000 people in occupied China, Korea, Burma, and the Philippines continued to die every month that the war continued.

As you said yourself, Japanese civilians continued to die at a horrific rate from conventional bombs.

Dropping the bombs was the right thing to do.
CT'97
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Maybe it was, but it isn't just "revisionist historians" who thought it was a mistake to drop the bombs. We need to remember all of history, not just the parts that we agree with.
Texas A&M - 144 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress.
CanyonAg77
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If the Japanese were only on the home islands, and if they had released all POWs, I could see not using the nukes. But here's a list of the territories the Japanese surrendered a full month after the A-bombs

Quote:

September 2, 1945
Japanese garrison in Penang surrenders, while the British retake Penang under Operation Jurist.
September 3, 1945
Japanese commander in the Philippines, Gen. Yama****a, surrenders to Gen. Wainwright at Baguio.
September 4, 1945
Japanese troops on Wake Island surrender.
September 5, 1945
The British land in Singapore.
September 5, 1945
The Soviets complete their occupation of the Kuril Islands.[4]
September 6, 1945
Japanese forces in Rabaul surrender.
September 8, 1945
MacArthur enters Tokyo.
September 8, 1945
U.S. forces land at Incheon to occupy Korea south of the 38th Parallel
September 9, 1945
Japanese forces in China surrender.
September 9, 1945
Japanese forces on the Korean Peninsula surrender.
September 9, 1945
Japanese forces in Borneo surrender.
September 10, 1945
Japanese in Labuan surrender.
September 11, 1945
Japanese in Sarawak surrender.
September 12, 1945
Japanese in Singapore formally surrender.
September 13, 1945
Japanese in Burma formally surrender.
September 14, 1945
Japanese in Sulawesi surrender.
September 16, 1945
Japanese in Hong Kong formally surrender.
October 25, 1945
Japanese in Taiwan surrender to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek as part of General Order No. 1, which later led to the ambiguous and unresolved political status of Taiwan.
About 140,000 Allied POWs were captured by the Japanese, and 30,000 died. About 36,000 were held on the Japanese home islands at war's end.

Some Japanese commanders simply walked away from camps that were about to be liberated during the war. Others killed or attempted to kill their prisoners.
JABQ04
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Would the invasion have been unnecessary? Yes. However the process of starving the Japanese into surrender would have still cost many many lives. Japanese officers still attempted a coup against the emperor when they found out he wanted to surrender AFTER the two atomic bombs. We would also still be losing men at a fairly steady rate to keep Japan blockade. The American public was tired of this war and wanted it over. If the bombs didn't work on, then we were going in and we would have essentially wiped Japan off the face of the earth.
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