Patton

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ArmyTanker
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I will certainly claim not to be a military historian or an expert on Patton, but I would like to share what little I know of him. First, he was a brilliant combat leader. Second, his use of available assets to accomplish the mission was genius. My admiration for Patton gave me impetus to describe his narrative for WWII.

Patton took over beleaguered US forces in N African in NOV 1942. Rommel, the Desert Fox, had kicked our asses all over the place. Patton had a week to turn around the US Army before a large battle with the Germans. Patton used Infantry, Field Artillery, and Tank Killers to destroy a heavy German armored force of 50 tanks at a critical pass. That was the start for the US to change the fate of the N African campaign.

In JUL 1943 Patton and his Army conducted an amphibious landing at Sicily. He was relentless and conducted two more amphibious landings to outflank the Germans. He and Montgomery were racing to attack the Germans who had a difficult time retreating fast enough to the Port of Mesina to escape the Allied forces. I believe by this time the Germans feared Patton the most of all Allied generals.

In early 1944 Patton was reassigned by General Eisenhower due to a couple slapping incidents in field hospitals. Patton was made commander of a fictitious Army unit in the UK which contained many inflatable vehicles and proceeded to indulge in non stop communications to deceive the Germans into thinking an amphibious landing would be a direct channel route to Calais, France. The Germans were deceived due to much fear and respect for Patton.

AUG 1944 Patton's Army landed in France and commenced on a 30 day march to the border of Germany. At this point we had air superiority. He used fighter planes to protect his flanks and provide reconnaissance ahead of his Army to give him great intelligence and situational awareness. Often the fighter planes engaged German formations in decisive engagements which gave Patton the flexibility of action which included surrounding the enemy and other tactics.

He had a disdain for Montgomery and often competed with him. One time Eisenhower gave all the fuel to Montgomery's army which infuriated Patton. He ordered his soldiers to steal some of the fuel. In another instance Patton's army was low on fuel so he ordered fuel to be dispensed to the essential vehicles in order keep up the momentum. I can not say it enough, Patton was a brilliant commander.
Rabid Cougar
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He was my grandfather's regimental commander in the 5th Cavalry in the 1930'. Sighed his discharge papers in 1940.
Belton Ag
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On a whim the other day while at the bookstore I picked up this book and read it over the weekend. This guy made the landings with Patton in North Africa and Sicily, and was around Patton when he would come into the battalion aid station.

He wasn't a fan of Patton the person but thought he got too much flack for the slapping incidents. At the time. the soldiers in question had PTSD, and nobody really knew much about how to treat it. He said Patton wasn't slapping the guy because he thought he was being a wuss, he was slapping him because that was Patton's idea of telling a guy to get it together and get back out there. Certainly not the way it's handled these days, but it would make sense to me I guess.
ArmyTanker
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I am just amazed at how he improvised tactics and merged them with all the resources on hand to win. There is a little known saying that good leaders and commanders will utilize all the available resources available to them internal and external to the organization. I thought using fighter planes in front and on the flanks of his army group was brilliant. It increased his speed, protected his army group, caused German attrition, gave him superior intelligence, and gave Patton the freedom to choose where and how to fight the battles. Great commanders like Alexander the Great prepared his forces, predicted enemy actions, and dictated the battles. That is what Patton was able to accomplish.
Agthatbuilds
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Nice timing. Im reading a book right now recommended by this board called Visions from a Foxhole written by one of Patton's soldiers and he was not super complementary of him.

This is in context of the crossing at the river saar. Here are some quotes:

Quote:

The lead companies of the two assaulting battalions were especially deluged with this rain of hot steel and lead. Casualties mounted terribly in mere minutescompany officers and many men were killed and wounded almost immediately. It is a pity that Patton, who so loved this sort of war, was not on the riverbank to share the excitement of the action he had initiated.


Quote:

Anyone can understand the terrible disadvantage of a river crossing that faces such hilly terrain in daylight. Yet, hours earlier the 302d had succeeded a few miles south only because of the fog and dark. Until their dying day, when two or more veterans of the 94th Infantry Division gather, they will continue to ask each other, "When 'Ole Blood and Guts' said 'Cross at once!' why couldn't he have said instead, 'Cross just after dark'?a difference of a couple of hours."


Quote:

It is true that the longer we waited to cross, the more enemy reinforcements could move up to our front. However, this former eighteen-year-old private first class now seventyfive years old and piecing together this ancient chain of events, never was a decision-making general. But what happened at Ayl and Staadtcoupled with other incidents and decisions that Patton made throughout our warprovided further evidence of unnecessary casualties. To be fair, though, evidence also seems to indicate that at other times his tactics tended to minimize casualties.


On the other side, leaders must make tough decisions and live with their consequences. Patton was a brilliant leader who willed his men to victory.
Jaydoug
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Patton drove men through his own narcissistic self interest in being the best and getting the glory.

Sometimes you need that when dealing with death and war.

I prefer Omar Bradley's leadership style, but Patton was effective. A shame he wasn't available for Korea.
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Jaydoug
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JJMt said:

Jaydoug said:

Patton drove men through his own narcissistic self interest in being the best and getting the glory.

Sometimes you need that when dealing with death and war.

I prefer Omar Bradley's leadership style, but Patton was effective. A shame he wasn't available for Korea.
What do y'all think of Krueger? As all or most of you know, he was a mustang and considered a soldier's general. The stories are that he required all officers serving under him, when in the field, to eat the same rations as the enlisted men.

My grandfather, who was also a mustang and retired as a Colonel shortly after the end of WW 2 (without having ever obtained his high school diploma let alone a college or Army advanced school degree), thought very poorly of Patton but (unsurprisingly) very highly of Krueger.


And then you have General Clark. Man WW2 had the full range of Generals, didn't it. Woof.
Smeghead4761
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My first unit was 1-6 Inf, and Krueger was on the regimental Wall of Fame, since he commanded 6th regiment in the early 30s.

Interestingly, Krueger commanded the Third Army in the Louisiana Maneuvers. Patton was one of his division commanders.
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JABQ04
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What did his men say about Old Blood and Guts? Our Blood his Guts?
Smeghead4761
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JJMt said:

Here's some info on Gen. Krueger I discovered since posting yesterday:

MacArthur's Forgotten Field Commander (historynet.com)

Walter Krueger - Wikipedia

Why have all of the Army Generals in the Pacific been overlooked by history? Did MacArthur steal all of the attention?

Why are there so few, if any accounts, of life of the average Army grunt in the Pacific? We have lots about grunts in Europe, and lots about Marines in the Pacific, but I'm not aware of any about Army enlisted men in the Pacific.

MacArthur was a notorious attention hog, even more so than Patton by a long shot. Basically, the only person allowed to be mentioned by name in any press releases out of SWPA was MacArthur.

The only real notable Army commander outside of MacArthur's realm was Gen. Richardson, who was in charge of all the Army troops in the Central Pacific - a Navy theater, where it's barely even acknowledge that there were Army troops. Even though, up until the Palau landings in late 1944, Nimitz had employed the same number of Army divisions as Marines - 4 of each.

The Marines are just a lot better at publicity. The only Army unit that comes close is the 82nd.
JABQ04
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JJMt said:

Here's some info on Gen. Krueger I discovered since posting yesterday:

MacArthur's Forgotten Field Commander (historynet.com)

Walter Krueger - Wikipedia

Why have all of the Army Generals in the Pacific been overlooked by history? Did MacArthur steal all of the attention?

Why are there so few, if any accounts, of life of the average Army grunt in the Pacific? We have lots about grunts in Europe, and lots about Marines in the Pacific, but I'm not aware of any about Army enlisted men in the Pacific.


I've said this before and even to the point I'm worried I mention it too much, but my grandfather was an army infantryman who (from what I understand) was the in the army unit to see combat on Iwo Jima. I have a treasure trove of info about him (personal letters, mementoes, newspapers etc) from his time). I need to go back through his letters and finish scanning them all in.

Madman
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The two book "Patton Papers" are a good read. Can find them on ebay for nothing if you don't want to spend the money to buy new. I think I got both for $10 plus shipping a few years ago.
Hey Nav
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Quote:

What do y'all think of Krueger?
So I went to Krueger Middle School in San Antonio in about 1970 (it was pretty new then).

Sadly, the Viet Nam conflict was in full force, and I reckon that's why the school namesake was never discussed. I just don't understand that.

I wound up graduating from Weslaco HS and no one ever addressed Harlon Block and his legacy. What the hell, USA, in the 70s???

Living in the neighborhood near Krueger MS, I was near Ft Sam Houston and visited the hospital at BAMC, as someone very close to me was a patient there - on the "blind ward". Pretty much everyone there were young soldiers who has lost one eye or all their vision over in the war. It was something to absorb as a 7th grader. I still remember a specific Christmas Day, walking that ward and talking to so many guys who I had met. I remember it 50 years later as if it was last week.

One of those guys was my father. He is soon to turn 93 and is still plugging along. He has been without one eye for 50 years. But... I do remember the first time I visited him - the bandages, the bruises, the swollen face. Something I wasn't prepped for.

Down the road, I did my own research and read up on Gen Krueger. What a devastating personal life this great soldier and leader had to endure.

EDIT:

I had a 1st cousin who was 9 years older than me who died in action in Thua Thien Province on 3/25/1968. He was a medic in 1st BN, 502nd Infantry, 101st ABN Div. He was 18years, 10 months, 11 days old when he died. He was a volunteer. And yes, he died stepping on a landmine while going after a wounded soldier.

His father also served in combat in the Pacific (Navy). His father (who spent the rest of his life as a Methodist minister) did not (would not) sign his enlistment papers when he was still 17. But.. his mother did.

His grandfather was a Navy vet in WW1 and after a long break in service served in WW2 (who was fished out of the Pacific after his ship was sunk) and spent a few years in the VA hospital in San Diego in 44-46 recovering from burns.

It was guys like this that led me to know I wanted to join up. So I graduated from A&M on a Dec 15, and was on active duty on a Jan 2. (I did , in the interim, go up and see Roger Staubach beat the Redskins on a very very cold day up in Irving on two late TDs.)
nosoupforyou
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Has anybody read Killing Patton by Bill O'Reilly?

It was great.. love that entire series..
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