Research update

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aalan94
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9:57a, 4/23/19
AG
Folks, I'm now in year 3.5 (counting my thesis) of research for my book. The first draft of course, is written, and I've been plugging away on the 2nd draft for five months now. Sounds like a lot of time, but it's worked in and around work and family time. I made faster progress while I was overseas because I had uninterrupted time in the evenings in my room to work on it.

I keep hearing folks say I should just stop and declare it done, but I keep finding stuff that is new and a revelation. I've read everything published on the Gutierrez-Magee Expedition so I can say no one's done this before. This week I found a good "smoking gun" that while still circumstantial, is a pretty damn good circumstance to help me make my primary case for the origins of the expedition. I can't really reveal the details here, but I'll explain it with a only half tongue-in-cheek remark that I made to my brother this weekend. "When I'm done," I told him, "People aren't going to say Stephen F. Austin was the father of Texas, they'll say that Aaron Burr was."

Like I said, only an exaggeration of degree. Austin certainly founded the colonies, but the point I'm going to make is that Austin was working in the context of a tradition deeper and more nuanced than people realize.

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aalan94
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9:58a, 4/23/19
AG
I'll hit the National Archives in June and then hopefully at that point I'll be in the home stretch. There is one serious limitation: I need the services of a good Spanish translator. And not just anybody can do this. This is archaic Spanish, not the sort of thing a Southside San Antonio guy whose greatest Spanish literary achievement is reading the subtitles in a telenovela. I'd love to find someone with a passion for history who just wants to help. I may have to pay for it. Most of the short documents I can look at myself, but I have one longer document that needs work. And Google Translate, which is decent for at least getting meaning out of modern texts, is useless with this stuff. Misses all the nuance.

If any of you guys by some amazing coincidence are history lovers AND M.A. students in Spanish translation, please feel free to let me know.
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p_bubel
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10:27a, 4/23/19
Perhaps send a message to these guys?

Los Bexareos Genealogical and Historical Society (facebook group)

If it were me, I would also ask Paula Allen. She has a semi-regular history column in the Express News and might have connections.
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aalan94
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12:36p, 4/23/19
AG
I've also considered contacting university Spanish professors and seeing if they'll let one of their students translate the text for a class project.
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aalan94
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12:42p, 4/23/19
AG
My brother asked me yesterday "How do you know no one has found source X" (one I described to him).

My response: Because it's in an obscure 180-year old book on a subject entirely different that previous generations of historians would have had to search for in 100 different libraries in 40 different states to find, which would be impossible because they didn't know it existed or is relevant to the topic. It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack when you don't know where the haystack is and have no clue if there are in fact needles in it.

But this book was digitized in 2014 and is now subject to a line-by-line Google search. And you have to have a lot of other facts in your head based off similar searches in the past in order to craft the right search terms. So no, no one has found this before.
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huisachel
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2:12p, 4/23/19




How long is the long document?

I used several translators for some litigation involving 18th and 19th century documents from DF and Camargo a few years ago. Might be able to get you some help

The now retired translator for the GLO might be interested: call the GLO and see if they can get you to him.

The Benson library at that big school in Austin is bound to have somebody who can help.

You going to the Tejano history meeting in Goliad next month?

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Rabid Cougar
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In reply to aalan94 • 2:16p, 4/23/19
AG
aalan94 said:
I've also considered contacting university Spanish professors and seeing if they'll let one of their students translate the text for a class project.
Dr. Mark McGraw at Ouachita Baptist University in Arkadelphia, Ark. Asst. Professor of Spanish.

Former US. Marine Lt. Colonel (MarSoc) and Corps of Cadet (S-2 '85).
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Rabid Cougar
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In reply to aalan94 • 2:51p, 4/23/19
AG
aalan94 said:
Folks, I'm now in year 3.5 (counting my thesis) of research for my book. The first draft of course, is written, and I've been plugging away on the 2nd draft for five months now. Sounds like a lot of time, but it's worked in and around work and family time. I made faster progress while I was overseas because I had uninterrupted time in the evenings in my room to work on it.

I keep hearing folks say I should just stop and declare it done, but I keep finding stuff that is new and a revelation. I've read everything published on the Gutierrez-Magee Expedition so I can say no one's done this before. This week I found a good "smoking gun" that while still circumstantial, is a pretty damn good circumstance to help me make my primary case for the origins of the expedition. I can't really reveal the details here, but I'll explain it with a only half tongue-in-cheek remark that I made to my brother this weekend. "When I'm done," I told him, "People aren't going to say Stephen F. Austin was the father of Texas, they'll say that Aaron Burr was."

Like I said, only an exaggeration of degree. Austin certainly founded the colonies, but the point I'm going to make is that Austin was working in the context of a tradition deeper and more nuanced than people realize.

Aaron Burr and General James Wilkinson were setting the stage for Austin some 20+ years before . In doing research for Lewis and Clark expedition, Texas was frequently part of the conversation in regards to Wilkinson's involvement in the expedition. Supposedly Phillip Nolan was one of Wilkinson agents that was going into Texas in the late 1790's. He was caught and killed by the Spanish in Hill County just north of the Brazos ( Blum) in 1800.
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aalan94
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11:24a, 4/24/19
AG
Rabid,

Wilkinson was kind of the grandfather of all plots on the frontier, but he wasn't particularly interested in Texas, except as a means to an end. His real goal, I think was Santa Fe. He's probably the biggest rogue in American history. He was at the same time:

1. The senior general in the U.S. Army
2. A spy for Spain
3. Considering breaking off the western United States and handing it to England.
4. Considering breaking off the western United States and handing it to Spain.
5. Considering invading Spanish territory to attach it to the U.S.
6. Considering invading Spanish territory to create a new Western confederacy.

In the end, Wilkinson never pulled the trigger, but his efforts and those of Burr left a legacy, and the legacy materialized in the Gutierrez-Magee expedition.

Wilkinson was such a dirtbag that he stabbed anybody he met in the back. He may even have betrayed Zebulon Pike's expedition, even though he sent him there. The only person alive Wilkinson did not betray, oddly enough, was his wife. He was a dirtbag, but devoted to her.
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RGV AG
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7:11p, 4/26/19
AG
Aalan, I would be humbly grateful to help you in any way I could if you think I could do it. I have a history undergrad and it is my passion, and I learned Spanish before I did English. In years past I would translate for pay; some legal stuff, but a lot of technical and training materials and such.

I think my grasp of older Spanish is pretty good having learned it CDMX, where it is was a more formal Spanish than a lot of places. I would be more than happy to try and see if I might be helpful. And I will do it at no cost. Just let me know.
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Rabid Cougar
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In reply to aalan94 • 1:01p, 4/29/19
AG
aalan94 said:
Rabid,

Wilkinson was kind of the grandfather of all plots on the frontier, but he wasn't particularly interested in Texas, except as a means to an end. His real goal, I think was Santa Fe. He's probably the biggest rogue in American history. He was at the same time:

1. The senior general in the U.S. Army
2. A spy for Spain
3. Considering breaking off the western United States and handing it to England.
4. Considering breaking off the western United States and handing it to Spain.
5. Considering invading Spanish territory to attach it to the U.S.
6. Considering invading Spanish territory to create a new Western confederacy.

In the end, Wilkinson never pulled the trigger, but his efforts and those of Burr left a legacy, and the legacy materialized in the Gutierrez-Magee expedition.

Wilkinson was such a dirtbag that he stabbed anybody he met in the back. He may even have betrayed Zebulon Pike's expedition, even though he sent him there. The only person alive Wilkinson did not betray, oddly enough, was his wife. He was a dirtbag, but devoted to her.
His niece was Jane Long... Supposedly he let the Spanish know about the intentions of the American soldiers camped at Alton, Ill. during the winter of '03. They had an expedition up into Kansas looking for L&C in '04 and didn't miss finding them by very much.
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