I think there has been a debate on the number of Somalis killed in the action, but from what I understand it is pretty accurate as far as the timeline of what happened.
Watched the scene where one of the Deltas is in chow line with his rifle slung on his shoulder with the safety off. When he gets called out on it, he holds up his trigger finger & says "this is my safety".Quote:
the Operators at the base were no nonsense, true professionals 24/7.
Anything's possible, but I know no one in the modern military who takes that stuff so cavalierly and gets away with it. If you're in the Marines and you say that **** near a gunny, I don't care if you're special ops or a general, he'll tear your head off and stomp out your guts. If you saw the Pacific, where the gunny tears up some Captain for flagging people, this is EXACTLY like it would happen, and should happen. This isn't just basic training stuff (a lot of that goes away when you're downrange), but in certain areas, and weapons safety is one, there is not much tolerance for BS.Quote:
Quote:
the Operators at the base were no nonsense, true professionals 24/7.
Watched the scene where one of the Deltas is in chow line with his rifle slung on his shoulder with the safety off. When he gets called out on it, he holds up his trigger finger & says "this is my safety".
Always wondered if that is BS or something similar to that actually happened.
From personal observations... If you want to encourage the Wrath of God, flag (point loaded weapon) a vehicle or a dismount from your own convoy with an MRAP turret in RED status (loaded with round in chamber). If you were around local military, it was absolutely insane. US Mil would go ape **** on them, rightfully so.aalan94 said:Anything's possible, but I know no one in the modern military who takes that stuff so cavalierly and gets away with it. If you're in the Marines and you say that **** near a gunny, I don't care if you're special ops or a general, he'll tear your head off and stomp out your guts. If you saw the Pacific, where the gunny tears up some Captain for flagging people, this is EXACTLY like it would happen, and should happen. This isn't just basic training stuff (a lot of that goes away when you're downrange), but in certain areas, and weapons safety is one, there is not much tolerance for BS.Quote:
Quote:
the Operators at the base were no nonsense, true professionals 24/7.
Watched the scene where one of the Deltas is in chow line with his rifle slung on his shoulder with the safety off. When he gets called out on it, he holds up his trigger finger & says "this is my safety".
Always wondered if that is BS or something similar to that actually happened.
In training, I had a young kid under my command (an 18 year old submariner deploying to Iraq). He screwed up and fired a blank round into a clearing barrel. The army sergeants were all over me. He's my responsibility. I had to fill out paperwork and the chiefs and I set up some "reeducation" for the kid. It was a big hubbub, over a blank. There's a reason: because you train like you fight. Now, if stuff like this was overlooked in previous wars, I get that, there was a lot of laziness. But it certainly doesn't happen in the War on Terror age, and I'd guess Black Hawk Down isn't too much different. That being said, Special Ops guys are *******s and think they own the world, so it's not impossible that he said it. It's impossible that he meant it. (If you can get the distinction).
I've been in 2 wars, but not technically combat. (I've had IDF, but no DF). I have some perspective, but not absolute perspective, so would invite others to chime in.
I served in 1/75 Rgr in the 90s. I got the pleasure to meet Sgt. Struecker (the driver of the humvee in the movie) while in RIP at Ft. Benning. And by pleasure I mean hazed.aalan94 said:
Anything's possible, but I know no one in the modern military who takes that stuff so cavalierly and gets away with it.
Just hired a former 160th CH-47 crewman. He recognized Fob Wright, Afghanistan on my screen saver and said "I've been there". Turns out I probably flew on his bird once or four times in 2011.Teddy KGB said:Quote:
P.S. It's totally badass to ride on the bench seat of a little bird. The 160th are some amazing pilots.
aalan94 said:
Rabid, I agree wholeheartedly. I think the difference is that the U.S. military at all levels has gotten more professional. Back in the day, you'd see a guy with a finger on a trigger and that might come off as "cool" but today, everyone - particularly those well-trained like spec ops, is basically rote memory trained to have that finger pointing forward until ready to engage. Friendly fire casualties are about the worst thing that can happen and you'd better bet that spec ops guys are no more likely to risk blowing off their buddy's heads.
As for flagging, I got flagged a lot by some of our allies - the Macedonians were the worst - but almost never by an American. I did see some poor discipline, things like an AF female who wore her M-4 slung on her back instead of front. I don't pull rank that often, but I corrected her, because we had Afghans on base and it would be very easy for one of them to grab the rifle, cut her sling and he's good to go. I generally think most of our Afghans were good, and if we had Taliban or Haqqani on base, it was mostly in a spying capacity. I did stop guys from going into the chow hall without going through security. Probably confused guys, but you can never take chances. If a suicide bomber got into a chow hall, that would be about the worst scenario possible.
Back to our allies, I think they were probably the biggest threat I faced. While I was there, there were Poles and Romanians who inadvertently discharged while "cleaning" their rifles. The Pole shot through a wall and struck an Australian (if I remember right) in the leg. The Romanian fortunately shot another Romanian. Everyone survived those incidents.
I did see other stupid crap. There was an Albanian guy who duct-taped his magazine into his pistol. Either it was falling out, which is stupid, or he's just stupid.
Quote:
Dead Hero's Father Tears into Clinton
London Sunday Times
May 29, 1994, Sunday
BYLINE: James Adams
It was the moment President Bill Clinton wanted to restore his tattered reputation with the military before his departure for the D-Day celebrations in Europe this week, James Adams reports.
He had just presented posthumous Congressional Medals of Honour, America's highest military decoration, to the widows of two soldiers for valour in Somalia. After inviting the families for a moment of quiet reflection in the Oval Office, the president approached Herbert Shughart, the father of one of the two soldiers, and offered his hand.
To his astonishment the handshake was declined. "You are not fit to be president of the United States," said Shughart Senior. "The blame for my son's death rests with the White House and with you. You are not fit to command."
The president reeled and the unprecedented onslaught continued for some minutes. According to witnesses it was a "highly charged emotional moment" which resulted in Clinton trying to explain to Shughart,Sr. why the events of that day last October were not his fault.
Shughart and his colleague, both sergeants, were killed trying to rescue fellow rangers from a vicious fire-fight in which 18 died and 75 were wounded. A later Pentagon investigation revealed that the troops had been refused the right equipment and there was no political or military plan to justify the Americ an presence in Somalia. Although the president has tried to escape the blame, he is largely credited with the failure of the whole American effort to bring peace to Somalia. According to witnesses to the Oval Office scene, the Shughart family remained unconvinced by the president's arguments.
"The medal doesn't help anything, other than that we are grateful that Randy will be remembered in such an honourable way," said Lois Shughart, the soldier's mother.
Pat McNamara: Why Your Carbine Should Be on 'Safe' During a Mag ChangeApache said:Watched the scene where one of the Deltas is in chow line with his rifle slung on his shoulder with the safety off. When he gets called out on it, he holds up his trigger finger & says "this is my safety".Quote:
the Operators at the base were no nonsense, true professionals 24/7.
Always wondered if that is BS or something similar to that actually happened.
If you do enough digging you'll find comments from former SFOD guys that something as simple as an unintended flashlight discharge (turning on a flashlight when not supposed to) gets guys kicked out of The Unit...forever.Apache said:Watched the scene where one of the Deltas is in chow line with his rifle slung on his shoulder with the safety off. When he gets called out on it, he holds up his trigger finger & says "this is my safety".Quote:
the Operators at the base were no nonsense, true professionals 24/7.
Always wondered if that is BS or something similar to that actually happened.
Quote:
I'll let the video speak for it self on the subject of slinging your weapon with the safely off.