Babylonians developed Trigonometry 1,500 years before the Greeks!

1,874 Views | 20 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by BQ78
Apache
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AG
Our ancestors were far more advanced than we give them credit for. I'll bet that the Egyptians had similar ways of calculating Trig in order to build their massive temples & pyramids... we just haven't found it yet.

Quote:

A 3,700-year-old clay tablet has proven that the Babylonians developed trigonometry 1,500 years before the Greeks and were using a sophisticated method of mathematics which could change how we calculate today.
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Babylonian mathematics used a base 60, or sexagesimal system, rather than the 10 which is used today. Because 60 is far easier to divide by three, experts studying the tablet, found that the calculations are far more accurate.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/08/24/3700-year-old-babylonian-tablet-rewrites-history-maths-could/
NormanAg
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AG
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of a base 60 numbering system. It seems like it would be incredibly complicated and inefficient as all hell.

Wait till Ancient Aliens hears about this - they will do an entire show claiming that a base 60 numbering system could only have come from alien visitors.

On a more serious note (and this is the History board after all), the fact that this ancient tablet was discovered and preserved serves to point out how important historical items (including statues) can be for helping us understand our history.

ISIS has been roundly criticized for destroying ancient artifacts (rightfully so), but now it seems many folks in our country want to destroy monuments, place names, etc from our own history. In my book what is happening is no different than what ISIS is doing in the Middle East.

The burning of the Library of Alexandria was another tragedy that destroyed so much of ancient history, literature and learning that has been lost forever.
Sapper Redux
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These Confederate monuments are not irreplaceable ancient artifacts. They are recent statues put up to celebrate a cause that denied the humanity of many Americans. The ones that have artistic of historical value should be preserved in a museum or at a battlefield. But there's no strong argument that every Confederate monument must remain in its current place for all time.
NormanAg
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AG
Quote:

But there's no strong argument that every Confederate monument must remain in its current place for all time.
Well, I can give you a VERY strong argument why they should remain in place. Removing Confederate monuments starts the proverbial "slippery slope".

Who gets to decide which ones go and which ones stay, which ones are moved to museums, which ones are outright DESTROYED!

And the bigger issue, of course - where does it stop? Renaming schools? Rewriting textbooks? Removing flags? The Sul Ross statue? Etc, etc, etc?

Does "guilt by association" become the standard? My father's ancestors were Yankees from NY and one was a Union general. My mom's ancestors were rebels from Georgia who moved to Texas after the Civil War. A great uncle of my mom's became a millionaire when oil was found in the Ranger area. FWIW, they were way to poor to ever own even one slave. Will I be called upon to disown and publically rebuke my maternal ancestors for choosing the wrong side in the Civil War?

And once the memory of the confederates is gone, who is next - Washington, Jefferson, some of the signers of the Declaration of Independence? (Hint: we already know the answer to that question)

Then which groups become the villains? How about the western settlers and army Indian fighters? I have plenty of those in my family tree, and certainly anyone with deep family roots in Texas does as well. They certainly "denied the humanity of many Americans".

I am frankly disappointed that you, a historian, would take the position that you have.

I will say again - the slippery slope of rewriting history is just starting in our country - who knows what is next (renaming schools is already underway) and who the next "villain" class will become.
Sapper Redux
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I think monuments are open to reinterpretation and change depending on the society (with some exceptions that I've already laid out). It's not changing history to change who we celebrate from history. And who we celebrate is a form of changing history and ignoring certain aspects of history. Frankly, it's saddening to me that folks can't understand why a number of Americans are upset about pride of place and honor being given to people who fought to deny those Americans their humanity and basic dignity. I also don't believe the slippery slope is a good justification for keeping everything status quo. It's a logical fallacy as it presumes things that are unproven and unprovable.
NormanAg
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AG
"Reinterpretation and change" of their society has always been a favorite tactic of totalitarian and communist regimes - Nazis, Soviet Communists, Chinese Communists, etc. It is also a favorite tactic of ISIS, who have destroyed countless centuries old artifacts.

Also, you didn't answer my central thesis - "where does it all end"?
Sapper Redux
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NormanAg said:

"Reinterpretation and change" of their society has always been a favorite tactic of totalitarian and communist regimes - Nazis, Soviet Communists, Chinese Communists, etc. It is also a favorite tactic of ISIS, who have destroyed countless centuries old artifacts.

Also, you didn't answer my central thesis - "where does it all end"?


The people who put up monuments to the Confederacy were reinterpreting and changing the view of the Confederacy and the causes and motivations of the Civil War. Memory and history are not the same, despite how much they are confused. The people of 1900 shouldn't be given an automatic pass, especially considering how they treated a huge percentage of Americans. The Lost Cause is a myth, not history. Preserving those monuments is not preserving history. It's preserving a specific idea of memory. Some may be worth keeping. Others are worth moving or disposing of. Every society and culture does this. The Germans and Russians did it with their Nazi and Soviet monuments. Are you saying they are equivalent to ISIS? Or maybe there's a difference between a democracy coming together to debate historical memory and tyrants who impose one notion of reality?
AtlAg05
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AG
A significant event that helped shaped the makeup of the US is a little bit more than a memory. US history is made of good and bad things but it is still our history.
The_Waco_Kid
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AG
No matter what is said, Dr. Watson will still say the cause was slavery.
A statue to honor the dead of a lost side? Dedicated to slavery.
Going to the moon? Done to escape the history of slavery?
Trigonometry? Created because ancient Babylonians bought slaves in sixty packs, because they shopped at Costco.
College educations are prohibitively expensive to keep slaves and descendants of slaves in slavery. /dr Watson rant
CanyonAg77
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AG
Quote:

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of a base 60 numbering system. It seems like it would be incredibly complicated and inefficient as all hell.

Wait till Ancient Aliens hears about this - they will do an entire show claiming that a base 60 numbering system could only have come from alien visitors.
Obviously, it came from an ancient civilization with 60 fingers and toes.

Me, I can only count to 10. Or 20 with my shoes off. Or 21 if I'm nekkid.
TPS_Report
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AG

Stive
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AG
I tend to think someone has very little basis for their argument when they primarily lean on the "slippery slope" argument as their main reason for something.
NormanAg
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AG
I tend to think it's already happening. It's not just about Confederate monuments now. It's about Washington and Jefferson monuments, our very own monument to Sul Ross, Teddy Roosevelt, etc, etc.

And it's about renaming schools, highways, public buildings, etc. Hell - maybe it will even spread to town names soon. How about Robert Lee, Tx? In the 50's (before interstate highways) my family lived in NM and we used to visit my Grandmother in San Angelo a couple of times a year. We always stopped in Robert Lee, Tx to get gas and take a leak. There must be countless towns across the US that have names with some connection to Confederates. Texas has 26 counties named after Confederates as well.

As I asked - "where does it end"?

I tend to think that's a pretty damned good argument - once this kind of crap starts (referring to Confederate monuments), the movement just keeps blossoming. Given the very sad state of history education in our country, lots of uninformed young folks will just eat that crap up.
Stive
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AG
The idea that taking a statue down removes "history" is fairly weak. The history is still there....it can't be taken away. Those statues weren't put up as some historical reference so that when little kids walk by they'd learn something. They were put up out of admiration and/or honor towards a person or group of people that wound up on the losing side (so go the spoils of war).

If those communities want to vote to change the name of a school, remove a statue, or some other similar movement, that's their choice. If a federal law gets put into place to do the same thing then I think you'd have a point. Up until now, for the most part, the same entities that voted to name a school REL, or voted to erect a statue of Jeff Davis, have also been allowed to vote to change and go the other direction as well. If outsiders don't like it...tough; it's up to that community and its delegates to make that determination.

NormanAg
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AG
Nobody is "voting" on these removals. Where did you get that idea? If people DID get to VOTE on issues like this, you might have a point. But that's not happening!

Edit: A city council, school board, or any other very small group "voting" to remove a monument does not constitute a decision by the citizens of city/county/state IMO.
Stive
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AG
They are representatives of the city/county/school elected to make those kinds of decisions on behalf of the citizens. That's how it works. Or maybe you don't think your rep has any decision making power when he or she joins the legislature.

It wasn't a full populace vote that put the statues up or named the school what it was named, and it's likely not going to be a full populace vote that takes them down either. If the citizens don't like their city council-persons decision or school board's decision they're welcome to give them the boot and put in someone that runs on the "bring back the statue" platform.


And I have no idea how a County would go about changing its name. Is that a state decision? Citizens of the county decision? Commissioners court?
NormanAg
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AG
Watching the news lately, it appears that "decisions" about removing confederate monuments will be made by protesting mobs - the side with the biggest (and most violent?) mob will win the day.

And have no doubt - every protester in the mob FAVORING the monuments will be labeled by the media as a white supremacist, Nazi, or KKK by the media. And conversely, every protester in the mob demanding removal of the monument will be labeled a peace loving, big hearted, kind, gentle, sensitive, and above all - highly intelligent citizen and patriot.

Mark my words, - it's going to get ugly. And for what purpose? Our society has lived with those monuments for over a hundred years in many cases.
The_Waco_Kid
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AG
It's primarily a case of virtue signalling and a sense of "I'm doing something right!" No matter how wrong it is.
Stive
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AG
You mean kind of like the decision to become a country? A pretty loud mob did their thing and look what happened.

The media is going to do their thing (as they always have). The mobs are going to yell on both sides, and in the end, decisions will be made. Welcome to a little world I like to call "The way it is".

To my knowledge I've never learned anything from a statue. I firmly believe that 100% of what I've learned about history I've learned from sources of information that were NOT statues and/or monuments. Feel free to keep sliding the scale to fit your narrative, but in the end, if there were no statues, the civil war would have still happened, and there would still be tons of info out there about it.
Rongagin71
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AG
I learned from statues that brave men are honored for defending their state.
Never saw a statue that honored anyone for defending slavery.
BQ78
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AG
Isn't that what ISIS wants reevaluation and reinterpretation?
BQ78
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AG
Asserting your white male privilige I see.
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