USS Texas

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I Like Mike
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8:35a, 6/13/17
AG
She sprang a bad leak over the weekend. Listed fifteen degrees before they could get the pumps working and patch the hole in her hull. It pains me to see this great vessel in such disrepair. I would encourage each of you to reach out to your representatives and ask them to find the funding to give this great vessel a permanent drydock. She needs SO many internal repairs and then needs a permanent berth built that gets her out of the water.

I am afraid if the state doesn't act soon, we will lose this fine ship.
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BQ78
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9:07a, 6/13/17
AG
Would be a damn shame to lose her but the cost to do it right must be astronomical.
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I Like Mike
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In reply to BQ78 • 9:08a, 6/13/17
AG
BQ78 said:
Would be a damn shame to lose her but the cost to do it right must be astronomical.
We build $40 million football stadiums for high schools in this state. Surely we can find the money to keep this treasure in proper shape.
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74OA
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11:09a, 6/13/17
AG
I agree, but a 1912 ship is going to require ever more maintenance merely to keep it safe. It's not like there hasn't been, and currently are, lots of Navy vessels named for Texas or places and people associated with Texas. Maybe it's sadly time to start considering replacing BB-35 with one of them? Pick
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Rabid Cougar
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In reply to 74OA • 11:19a, 6/13/17
AG
74OA said:
I agree, but a 1912 ship is going to require ever more maintenance merely to keep it safe. It's not like there hasn't been, and currently are, lots of Navy vessels named for Texas or places and people associated with Texas. Maybe it's time to start considering replacing BB-35 with one of them? Pick
All those APA named after counties in Texas. Very Cool.

The CGN is long gone.

I am leaning towards the CVN when it is decommissioned in 50 years.
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p_bubel
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11:24a, 6/13/17
It's beyond time for her to come out of the water.





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DrEvazanPhD
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In reply to p_bubel • 12:48p, 6/13/17
I've wondered for a long time why she hasn't been put into dry dock.
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I Like Mike
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12:50p, 6/13/17
AG
Apparently her internal structure needs major repairs. If they towed her out of the channel, she would split in half. So those repairs have to be made in place. Until then. they cannot dry berth her.
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Cen-Tex
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1:02p, 6/13/17
AG
A video from KHOU re: the current leak




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JABQ04
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1:26p, 6/13/17
AG
Wish they'd put donation boxes at HEB or Krogers and try to get donations that way. If everyone in the state gave $1 then we'd be in damn good shape
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DrEvazanPhD
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2:34p, 6/13/17
I took a guided hard-hat tour a few years ago. They had just completed a major renovation to one of the engine rooms. Damned shame this keeps happening.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to 74OA • 9:44p, 6/13/17
74OA said:
I agree, but a 1912 ship is going to require ever more maintenance merely to keep it safe. It's not like there hasn't been, and currently are, lots of Navy vessels named for Texas or places and people associated with Texas. Maybe it's sadly time to start considering replacing BB-35 with one of them? Pick


It's ironic that removing one Confederate monument out of thousands in a public space causes a huge outrage, but it's just too much to repair the only WWI battleship we still have. Not trying to pick on 74OA, but the USS Texas really is history in its most authentic. I don't think cost should be the first priority given the long term possibilities and ramifications.
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JABQ04
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9:57p, 6/13/17
AG
What was he estimated cost of creating a dry-dock for the Texas? Once that would be built I imagine the cost of maintenance to be considerably less than what it is now. As someone pointed out earlier we can build HS football stadiums for $40 million but can't save and restore a truly unique piece of History.
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Rabid Cougar
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9:30a, 6/14/17
AG
In 2010 the cost estimate for the dry dock and repairs was a bit north of $40 M.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/2010/04/19/20100418-Lines-are-drawn-over-plans-for-8155

In 2013 it was $70 M

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/USS-Texas-repairs-underway-but-that-won-t-be-4549044.php


I don't think there is a quick fix. She needs a new hull, including internal structure. How do you do that without getting here out of the water? There is a possibility of her breaking her back even if she was dry docked.
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Liquid Wrench
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In reply to JABQ04 • 11:51p, 6/14/17
JABQ04 said:
Wish they'd put donation boxes at HEB or Krogers and try to get donations that way. If everyone in the state gave $1 then we'd be in damn good shape
We had a big regional recycling drive to donate aluminum cans for it when I was a kid.



*I'm not from Baytown, this is just what I found when I searched. From 1987.

As a kid, I thought they were going to melt the cans down or something and add them to the ship, but it looks like the cash value of the scrap was donated.
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titan
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In reply to Rabid Cougar • 3:11p, 6/15/17
S
This is dismaying news. The forensics of the leak would be interesting, because a FIFTEEN degree starboard list is not trivial. A Japanese torpedo hit flooding Hornet's engine room gave her only an 11 degree one.

Rabid Cougar, CalebMcCreary06 point out,

Quote:

I don't think there is a quick fix. She needs a new hull, including internal structure. How do you do that without getting here out of the water? There is a possibility of her breaking her back even if she was dry docked.


Quote:

Apparently her internal structure needs major repairs. If they towed her out of the channel, she would split in half. So those repairs have to be made in place. Until then. they cannot dry berth her.
I think an out of the box approach is the solution, see below, though not sure of the form would take. 20th C America used to display great ingenuity, If imagine we retain at least 75% of it now though it does seem to be fading where government is concerned.

That solution would be to find a way to make her present place permanent. Don't `move' her at all. The challenge is find a way to cofferdam the river side and somehow get blocks under her before draining it. Then possibly fill the basin to waterline level with some kind of faux stone but polished surface to look like water, and do something like what the Japanese have the Mikasa arranged as. It might also be the most cost-effective, and end up giving Texas the most longevity.

One thing is for sure, if they do have to move her, I have no doubt the American minds that did this can figure out a way to do it even better now. Look at what was involved moving Oklahoma to dock---far bigger "leaks".

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/OnlineLibrary/photos/events/wwii-pac/pearlhbr/ph-ok9.htm

The battleship Texas needs to be preserved as long as possible. Its not realized she is the only one that gives you any idea of what Pearl Harbor era battleship fitting and spaces were like. You want to see what Arizona or Oklahoma was like internally, you can't got to Iowa or Wisconsin -- you have to go to Texas. She is also one of the few pre-WW II designs of any kind around ---- a sad case is the effort up northeast to restore and save USS Olympia (it still exists) -- none other than Dewey's flagship in the Spanish-American War. They are having trouble because today's generations have never or barely heard of the Maine, or even the Spanish-American War naval battle of Manila or Cuba actions, or know that it is not the `Alamo' era war with Mexico. .

Edit: If you have ever seen the famous Doolittle raid photo passing over Yokosuka Navy Yard (one of few photos that came out of the raid and very, very commonly seen) you almost see where Mikasa (Japanese flagship at Tsushima, Japan's `Trafalgar' victory) is. She is half fastened into one side of the quay there.




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et98
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10:12a, 6/16/17
AG
This is really disappointing.

My wife and I are headed out to the San Jacinto Monument/Museum/Battleship etc in a few minutes. I had no idea about this issue with the battleship until now. My wife has never been out there, and this isn't the way I wanted her to see the battleship for the first time.
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titan
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In reply to et98 • 10:34a, 6/16/17
S
et98,


Quote:
This is really disappointing.

My wife and I are headed out to the San Jacinto Monument/Museum/Battleship etc in a few minutes. I had no idea about this issue with the battleship until now. My wife has never been out there, and this isn't the way I wanted her to see the battleship for the first time.


It vicariously pains me to hear that. Having visited to exhibit ships USS Lexington and USS Wisconsin not long ago, it is the stuff of nightmares to imagine learning something like this had happened during the very weekend you were planning to visit the ship. It looks like from the video people are still able to observe, but I wonder if they will even let you aboard now. Go see let her see it anyway. Seeing the scale of these things life-size is no small part of the reward, and that you can still do. And because of the narrow width of the inlet, you can see much of the above deck fittings very easily.

Good Luck.

It is worth noting that the video makes clear that pumping has corrected the list to 8 degrees. The big problem is the pylons. For comparison, USS California and USS Saratoga are listing 8 and 9.5 degrees in these:




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I Like Mike
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12:45p, 6/16/17
AG
Closed to visitors for now.
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jickyjack1
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 2:59p, 6/16/17
Dr. Watson said:
74OA said:
I agree, but a 1912 ship is going to require ever more maintenance merely to keep it safe. It's not like there hasn't been, and currently are, lots of Navy vessels named for Texas or places and people associated with Texas. Maybe it's sadly time to start considering replacing BB-35 with one of them? Pick


It's ironic that removing one Confederate monument out of thousands in a public space causes a huge outrage, but it's just too much to repair the only WWI battleship we still have. Not trying to pick on 74OA, but the USS Texas really is history in its most authentic. I don't think cost should be the first priority given the long term possibilities and ramifications.
From a Confederate monument to the USS Texas is a natural progression, no doubt.

Were you to do a dissertation on brands of dog food, you would work in a reference to some facet of the Confederacy and, by inference, all the injustices with no redeeming qualities worth mention propagated by that evil institution.

I do have a question: Would you in the first round of executions have hung Davis, Lee, Forrest, Hampton and Stevens one at a time, or side by side? I don't include Longstreet because by that time he, of course, probably would have insinuated himself into the post of honorary trap-puller.

One final thing: How far would you have gone to get the government's mitts on J.P. Benjamin, the ablest man of the Confederacy and possibly the ablest in the Americas*? He would have been quite a fish to fry. (I am sometimes guilty of turning conversations, too.)


*outside Lincoln. Benjamin could do it, but one can't picture him doing it in the spotlight, as it were.
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JABQ04
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4:21p, 6/16/17
AG
Good news. Looks like the Texas will be open tommorow. News reports saw leak is fixed (for now) and will open Saturday Morning.

http://www.khou.com/amp/news/local/battleship-texas-to-reopen-saturday-following-more-leak-repairs/449619659
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et98
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6:57p, 6/16/17
AG
We just got back from San Jacinto. We couldn't go on board the battleship, but we were able to walk around and see everything from the outside. As the poster above said, they plan to open tomorrow.

Everything else was great, and it turned out to be a nice little excursion for me and the wife. We'll have to go back again one day and do the battleship, but she enjoyed it today even without getting the full version.
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TRD-Ferguson
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8:44a, 6/17/17
AG
I grew up in South Houston. The Texas was my "playground" on many a weekend. A high school classmate is a guide on the Hard Hat Tours. My youngest son, now 32, and I did the tour with him last March. It was a dream come true to have access to the formerly closed locations. Texas is truly a treasure.

At the time of our tour there was 27 feet of water under her keel. I was shocked having been told for years she was stuck in the mud. Those tour guides are exceptional. Even ran into a fellow Class of '78 member! I highly recommend the Hard Hat Tour.
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titan
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In reply to TRD-Ferguson • 12:09p, 6/17/17
S
et98,

Good to hear it turned out well even so. As suspected, even seeing it from outside at close range has enough appeal to be sure to do it.

Pacing the Cage,

(Italicized BB's name out of habit)
Quote:
I grew up in South Houston. The Texas was my "playground" on many a weekend. A high school classmate is a guide on the Hard Hat Tours. My youngest son, now 32, and I did the tour with him last March. It was a dream come true to have access to the formerly closed locations. Texas is truly a treasure.
Funny fact then I bet you recall: in 1974 when first saw it (I am not sure when it changed) Texas used to have concrete decks, like USS Utah's wreck at Pearl Harbor still shows. In Utah's case it was against practice bombing, for Texas it had to do with a short cut to protect the topsides I suppose. They did a fuller restoration sometime after. It was gone when next there (most recent in '02)

You say "formerly closed locations" ---- Does that mean one of the reciprocating engine rooms or a boiler room is now open? I have to get back down there if so. Reciprocating is the kind Titanic and various WW I era ships had--you can barely find a place to see how giant they were in context.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to jickyjack1 • 2:24p, 6/17/17
My point had to do with a double standard as to what merits historical preservation. If you want to discuss treason and how to deal with it, by all means start another thread.
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TRD-Ferguson
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In reply to titan • 4:43p, 6/17/17
AG
Titan, much more is open than some of the engine rooms, etc. you could always get into the 14 inch turrent areas but were never allowed into the Barbette. You see all of that plus powder/shell stores, hoisting mechanism, etc. Also CIC, and many other places I can't remember the terms for. At the end you can spend another 1/2 hour with a former Navy man who will delightfully tell you all you could hope to know about reciprocating engines!

I knew that ship like the back of my hand as a kid. When we walked into doors that were formerly locked (they lock them behind you when you go in now) it was, for me, like being a kid at Christmas!

I do remember the concrete decks. All wood now. Plus you get a lot of interesting commentary and insights you may not find elsewhere. You may recall from your visits that the ship is stripped of almost everything when compared to other museum ships such as the Alabama. The reason is that the Navy was still using most of the equipment on other ships when they sold the Texas to the state. We basically received an empty ship.
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Mule_lx
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In reply to Liquid Wrench • 12:47p, 6/19/17
AG
I remember hauling sacks and sacks of Miller Lite and Tab cans to Kindergarten for this.
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terata
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9:20a, 6/23/17
AG
By all means lets try to preserve the USS Texas.
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Aggie1205
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In reply to I Like Mike • 9:56a, 6/23/17
AG
CalebMcCreary06 said:
BQ78 said:
Would be a damn shame to lose her but the cost to do it right must be astronomical.
We build $40 million football stadiums for high schools in this state. Surely we can find the money to keep this treasure in proper shape.


Those HS stadiums are put to votes. Perhaps the funds for this should be as well.
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I Like Mike
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In reply to Aggie1205 • 10:53a, 6/23/17
AG
I think it should be
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Rongagin71
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 5:18p, 6/25/17
AG
Dr. Watson said:
My point had to do with a double standard as to what merits historical preservation. If you want to discuss treason and how to deal with it, by all means start another thread.

There is no double standard...
Most Aggies want both the battleship and the battle monuments kept in good repair and appreciate that
both subjects have received reasonable publicity.
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terata
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5:58p, 6/25/17
AG
Lets make an aggressive effort to get the USS Texas out of the water and onto a dry platform. That might help preservation a little.
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JABQ04
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10:12p, 6/26/17
AG
Just visited today with the kids. Seems like lots of areas are closed off. Still good to be able to walk the deck and show her off to my kids.
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Liquid Wrench
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In reply to Aggie1205 • 4:02a, 6/27/17
Aggie1205 said:
CalebMcCreary06 said:
BQ78 said:
Would be a damn shame to lose her but the cost to do it right must be astronomical.
We build $40 million football stadiums for high schools in this state. Surely we can find the money to keep this treasure in proper shape.


Those HS stadiums are put to votes. Perhaps the funds for this should be as well.
We did pass a constitutional amendment in 2007 authorizing bonds which were supposed to include Texas Parks & Wildlife dept. funds for the Battleship Texas. Don't know what was done, but it has been ten years.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/newsmedia/releases/?req=20071022a

Quote:

Texas State Parks stand to get $52 million in bond authority from Proposition 4 for 2008-2009, including $27 million for major repairs at parks across the state and $25 million to help fund a new dry berth for long-term preservation of the Battleship TEXAS.
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Rabid Cougar
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In reply to Liquid Wrench • 10:12a, 6/27/17
AG
ChiliBeans said:
Aggie1205 said:
CalebMcCreary06 said:
BQ78 said:
Would be a damn shame to lose her but the cost to do it right must be astronomical.
We build $40 million football stadiums for high schools in this state. Surely we can find the money to keep this treasure in proper shape.


Those HS stadiums are put to votes. Perhaps the funds for this should be as well.
We did pass a constitutional amendment in 2007 authorizing bonds which were supposed to include Texas Parks & Wildlife dept. funds for the Battleship Texas. Don't know what was done, but it has been ten years.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/newsmedia/releases/?req=20071022a

Quote:

Texas State Parks stand to get $52 million in bond authority from Proposition 4 for 2008-2009, including $27 million for major repairs at parks across the state and $25 million to help fund a new dry berth for long-term preservation of the Battleship TEXAS.
It's been spent. The last $17.5M was spent in 2013.

"At the top of the list, Smith said, is replacing corroded metal supports beneath the ship's twin engines, each of which weighs more than 1,000 tons. The ship's steel skin is being reinforced with concrete and rubber sheeting, which should guard against leaks such as those that plagued the vessel last summer.

Repairs also will be made to metal framework associated with the hull, and workers will assess the condition of the Texas' pump, electrical, water and wastewater systems. The condition of the concrete pylons that stabilize the warship in its berth also will be evaluated"
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