CanyonAg77 said:

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And an Aggie was in the water, watching them burn....

(If I have the timeline correct)

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You do!

On June 4, 1942, the Japanese Imperial Navy attacked United States forces on the island of Midway. With four Japanese aircraft carriers sunk by the conclusion of the conflict, the battle was the first major victory for the US in the Pacific. But victory did not come without cost. More than 300 Americans lost their lives during the Battle of Midway, including all but one member of the bomber group Torpedo Squadron 8. Two films made by Oscar-winning director John Ford, now preserved at the National Archives, tell the story of triumph and sacrifice at Midway.

The Battle of Midway is perhaps only nominally a documentary, with several sequences featuring fictitious families back home framing five minutes of battle footage, but audiences who saw the film may have had their first dramatic glimpse of what it meant for the country to be at war. The Battle of Midway was released to theaters by September of 1942 and was screened in most of the nation's theaters at a time when Americans had a regular movie-going habit. It is likely that The Battle of Midway was seen by nearly everyone who had access to a movie theater.

While The Battle of Midway was seen by nearly everyone on the home front, Torpedo Squadron 8 was made solely for the families of the lost Squadron members. On the day the attack began, Kenneth Pier was shooting footage on the deck of USS Hornet. Soon after, the men of Torpedo Squadron 8 (VT-8) were the first to fight the enemy, flying unaccompanied toward Japanese forces. When it became clear that twenty-nine of the thirty men of VT- 8 died during the battle, Ford identified and assembled footage of the airmen into a simple but poignant film. Torpedo Squadron 8 is a film memorial that shows the men mugging for the camera and posing beside their planes, unaware that they had only hours left to live.

Little known fact that John Ford was wounded during the battle of Midway.

With big brass balls, lots of skill, and a hell of a lot of luck.

Hiyru

Just an FYI. The Imperial Japanese Navy never addressed their ship with a prefix such as U.S.S or HMS.
they were simply "Hiryu" or "Akagi" .

Question about the images above: I remember reading that the reason the American dive bombing attacks were so destructive was that the Japanese were exchanging bombs for torpedos and had been planes full of aviation fuel. The images above suggest that there were few planes on the flight decks and it was the bombs that caused all the destruction. Which is it?

There were few planes actually on the flight decks at the time of the attack. The Japanese Navy loaded the bombs and often fueled the planes in the hangar deck. There were a lot of fueled and armed planes in the hangar deck directly below the flight deck.

Rabid Cougar said:

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Given the technology of the time, I'm impressed with all of the bombing patterns you posted.

dcbowers said:

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Question about the images above: I remember reading that the reason the American dive bombing attacks were so destructive was that the Japanese were exchanging bombs for torpedos and had been planes full of aviation fuel. The images above suggest that there were few planes on the flight decks and it was the bombs that caused all the destruction. Which is it?

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I am thinking the planes are represented for scale.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Rabid Cougar said:

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Given the technology of the time, I'm impressed with all of the bombing patterns you posted.

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The Dauntless' were releasing their bombs between 2,000 and 1,500 feet. They were literally right on top of the carriers when they pulled out.

Nice work putting bombs on target. Pretty impressive.

Skinner98 said:

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There were few planes actually on the flight decks at the time of the attack. The Japanese Navy loaded the bombs and often fueled the planes in the hangar deck. There were a lot of fueled and armed planes in the hangar deck directly below the flight deck.

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This. The Japs also lacked the systems we had in place for fire-suppression, and if I recall right, their fuel delivery systems were also quite vulnerable. We caught them at the exact right moment and laid waste to these carriers. Read "Shattered Sword" for an excellent depiction of the entire battle and for a very descriptive account of the destruction of those four carriers.

Rabid Cougar, thanks for posting the images showing where the ships were hit. Noticed a couple of our guys hit two different ships. Pretty impressive.

libertyag said:

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Rabid Cougar, thanks for posting the images showing where the ships were hit. Noticed a couple of our guys hit two different ships. Pretty impressive.

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It obviously would have been two separate sorties.

Where is titan? He is co-author of Shattered Sword, one of the best Midway books ever written. We should enlist his significant insights on the details of the battle as well as the Japanese political and military issues that led to the decision to attack Midway, despite the near total lack of good military reasons to do so and several military reasons to not do so.

Fascinating "what if" scenarios.

"Shattered Sword" is a tremendous read

Rabid Cougar said:

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libertyag said:

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Rabid Cougar, thanks for posting the images showing where the ships were hit. Noticed a couple of our guys hit two different ships. Pretty impressive.

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It obviously would have been two separate sorties.

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Still, how many pilots can claim to have sunk two Japanese carriers.

Norman Jack "Dusty" Kleiss. He has a new book out. "Never Call Me a Hero". Ne died in 2016.
E-book

This looks interesting, just ordered it.

I second the above comments, Shattered Sword is a great book. I didn't realize Titan was one of the co-authors.

His book on Surigao Strait is pretty much nails also

Titan is quite the treasure. He needs to get in here and educate us some more on Midway.

Hahah. You are selling yourselves short. Dcbowers and Skinner98's posts were very good in explaining things, some of the complexities, and what has been learned. And frankly, Rabid Cougar's posts are amazing renditions --- I had not seen color versions of the diagrams showing the hits, and with the pilots claim assigned to each. Dusty Kleiss's claim was able to largely verify from Japanese records.

By the way, Rabid Cougar mentioned Dusty Kleiss' book. Second that strongly - For any who care about this, buy it at once. The personal perspective story from the 40's, the often humorous moments of squadron training and rivalries are matched only by the "you are in the cockpit" quality of description of flying the Dauntless. Even the unfolding of his personal life worked around the war's outbreak is touching.

Already have "Shattered Sword." Now, I get to buy another book.

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CanyonAg77 said:
And an Aggie was in the water, watching them burn....

(If I have the timeline correct)

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You do!

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Yes. And what is interesting is Ensign Gay had mentioned seeing the carrier closest to him then scuttled close to sunset, apparently by gunfire. This had always been dismissed, but it now seems almost certain that Kaga and Soryu (one of which is what he was likely near) were indeed torpedoed and scuttled at sunset. At that distance assuming gunfire would be just as easy as torpedoes. The main point is it held true.

thach, there is irony in this thread, as your own handle (whatever it came from?) was a name of a very important guy at Midway too, "Jimmy" Thach of Yorktown's fighter squadron had come up with a tactic to help defeat the Japanese Zeros in dogfights, called the Thach Weave.

Told Ya we needed some titan !!

I happened to attend the 75th Anniversary ceremonies held on the USS Midway in San Diego bay on Monday. It was quite an experience. There were 6 veterans of the battle present. One was 102 years old. The Chief of Naval Operations gave the keynote. He spoke of how it wasn't luck that won the day but a series of key decisions and actions made by individual leaders that when combined allowed us to emerge victorious. I've never tried to attach anything on Texags so I hope you can read his comments.

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/people/cno/Richardson/Speech/CNO_RemarksBattleofMidwayCommemoration.pdf

Good talk, and I never knew that about the submarine Nautilus