Cannister round recovered from the Monmouth Battlefield with human blood on it

2,850 Views | 20 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by VanZandt92
BQ78
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Unique find:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/human-blood-found-revolutionary-war-shrapnel-47509367
74OA
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A little more......
Cardiac Saturday
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Interesting - thanks!
Sapper Redux
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That's an interesting battlefield in that it's still a working farm. They recently redid the Visitors' Center. Worth a stop if you find yourself in Jersey for some reason.
Rabid Cougar
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I am surprised more of them have not been found. When I worked at Petersburg National Battlefield in the early 80's road crews found a skeleton in a thickly wood road side. The sent for the Medical Examiner which suspected it was much older than a recent murder victim. when they "picked him up" they found a Federal belt buckle and buttons. They call the NPS historian, Chris Caulkins to look at the find. I got to go with him. While they were looking at the skeleton and other finds , they discovered a .36 cal. pistol ball in what would have been his chest cavity.
Rabid Cougar
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Canister is nasty. I cannot image having to face it at short range.
Rabid Cougar
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Rabid Cougar said:

Canister is nasty. I cannot image having to face it at short range.
Firing canister from a Napoleon





I have fired this stuff in real life during NPS Living History training. It was a very sobering experience.

According to the "manual", you start firing it when infantry is at 100 yards and then "double shot" it every shot afterwards. You don't swab between rounds at this point because you are within range of accurate rifle fire.. Its very dangerous but you are between a rock and a hard place.

Infantry, if properly commanded, will run flat out toward the guns after receiving the first round. If the guns are unsupported, they should be over run after the second round. If the battery commander is good, he will "fire by piece" so there is always a gun being fired.

I have read of crews "skipping " the shot to make it more effective.

Takes balls of steel on both ends at this point.
Stive
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So the guy in front of the shot.....there's basically nothing left after it would fire?
Sapper Redux
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When the 26th NC charged the 1st RI Artillery at Gettysburg it was said that only a pink haze lingered in the air following a round of double canister.
BQ78
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I recall the night I explained to Sam Watkins' grandaughter the concept of cannister. She read this sentence about the Battle of Perryville from Company Aytch and could not believe that they were all standing in a line and killed by one cannonball:

Quote:

Eight color-bearers were killed at one discharge of their cannon.
Rabid Cougar
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Stive said:

So the guy in front of the shot.....there's basically nothing left after it would fire?
Guy"s" ! Yes... Basically.

Four guns/ six guns with at least 10 yards between the hubs but more often 20 to 30 yards between the hubs.

Then you have instances where there where 50 + pieces lined up hub to hub like Malvern Hill and Stones River .
Stive
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So I know some of the more devastating examples of how charges like this failed....are there key examples where charging large numbers of entrenched batteries like that worked?
BQ78
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Gaines Mill, Chatanooga, sometimes they were successful but usually with great loss. Of course a bad set up on the hill crest, versus the military crest, like was done on Missionary Ridge could help the attacker.
Rabid Cougar
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Stive said:

So I know some of the more devastating examples of how charges like this failed....are there key examples where charging large numbers of entrenched batteries like that worked?
These are instance where the guns were out in the open and basically unsupported. They were operating as the very last lines of defense. Gaines Mills was also out in the broad open. Texas Brigade broke the Federal lines with a Federal battery on the receiving end of the point of the assault. But again, the Texans got the crap shot out of them.

There are numerous examples of assaults failing due to both infantry and artillery fire. Every battle has an example of that.

There are also of instances where guns behinds earthworks were over run. Lots of examples at Petersburg. The guns were simply over whelmed by numbers and not well supported with infantry. But again, most earth works did not contain 50 plus pieces in a two hundred yard or less gun line either.
BQ78
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The other thing about Gaines Mill was they could not depress the guns to cover the bottom of the slope and the Yankees had a defense in depth of several lines. The Texans made it to the bottom, drove the Yanks out of the first rebel pits, which gave them a line of Yanks to follow up the slope with increasing numbers as they cleared the other lines of rifle pits. This caused the Yank infantry and artillery to hesitate to shoot their own guys and the Texans swept past the other lines of rifle pits and on to the crest capturing the artillery.

It's hard to come up with a successful charge int he Civil War against entrenched infantry with adequate artillery support where the defenders did not make a huge mistake in their setup that aided the attackers.
Rabid Cougar
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BQ78 said:



It's hard to come up with a successful charge int he Civil War against entrenched infantry with adequate artillery support where the defenders did not make a huge mistake in their setup that aided the attackers.
Agreed. Every instance that I can think of with assaults against the above scenario usually met with huge loss of life on the part of the attackers. On the successful ones, the defenders always had that missing "piece".

There are those instances were the attacker breaks through but doesn't have the support to carry the lines and ultimately has to retreat. Lots of those examples too.
VanZandt92
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74OA
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Rabid Cougar said:

BQ78 said:



It's hard to come up with a successful charge int he Civil War against entrenched infantry with adequate artillery support where the defenders did not make a huge mistake in their setup that aided the attackers.
Agreed. Every instance that I can think of with assaults against the above scenario usually met with huge loss of life on the part of the attackers. On the successful ones, the defenders always had that missing "piece".

There are those instances were the attacker breaks through but doesn't have the support to carry the lines and ultimately has to retreat. Lots of those examples too.
Longstreet made this point repeatedly to Lee. By mid-war he could see that combat primacy had shifted to the defense over offense. He advocated an overall operational switch to the defensive to take advantage of the changed circumstances, but was rebuffed by Lee until the South's unsustainable losses forced him late in the war to adopt a defensive posture. Defense's primacy lasted until WWII when airpower and mechanized combined arms changed warfare yet again.
VanZandt92
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Can somebody please detail artillery of the 18th century? I know many of the answers but I'm sure there are those on here who love artillery.

I'll start it out. At Cowpens, the English brought along a grasshopper. How big do y'all reckon this was?
Rabid Cougar
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VanZandt92 said:

Can somebody please detail artillery of the 18th century? I know many of the answers but I'm sure there are those on here who love artillery.

I'll start it out. At Cowpens, the English brought along a grasshopper. How big do y'all reckon this was?
Not very big at all. 3 pounder. They were meant to be quickly moved by men in support of infantry assaults. Basically assault artillery of the day. On the march they could me pulled by one horse. in the top picture you can see the harness and rope used to by the crew to move the piece.



74OA
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VanZandt92 said:

Can somebody please detail artillery of the 18th century? I know many of the answers but I'm sure there are those on here who love artillery.

I'll start it out. At Cowpens, the English brought along a grasshopper. How big do y'all reckon this was?
Easy to find......
VanZandt92
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Great stuff Rabid Cougar.
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