Free Masonry

5,652 Views | 65 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Blue Bell Ag
VanZandt92
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Question for Christians. Not strictly a historical question, but my dad and other relatives are masons. I'm not,but I have taken a fraternity oath. My aunt was texting me some prayers this morning and said something about those oaths being to other gods than ours.

What do you think? It isn't something I've put much thought into.
Rabid Cougar
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AG
VanZandt92 said:

Question for Christians. Not strictly a historical question, but my dad and other relatives are masons. I'm not,but I have taken a fraternity oath. My aunt was texting me some prayers this morning and said something about those oaths being to other gods than ours.

What do you think? It isn't something I've put much thought into.
Lots of oaths are taken, usually with a hand placed on a Bible with the ending phrase "So help me God."

Fraternal oaths are for allegiance to an organization.

Now if you put that organization above your faith, you may have something there.

aalan94
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AG
If you take the bible literally, it's provably false. If you take the spirit of the bible, no science will ever prove it wrong. That's why I never take the bible literally. When it says don't kill people, yeah. When it says don't take oaths, what does it really mean? It's referring to putting another God above God which is a violation of the first commandment.
Blue Bell Ag
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First and foremost, I am a Christian, I am also a Master Mason. You can email me with questions or comments. I also urge you to speak to Mason's near you to get more comfortable with your decision.

If you want to tell me where you live, I can put you in contact with a local lodge.

Kirbyms at yahoo
HollywoodBQ
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I don't believe the oaths are the issue per se. I took an oath to protect and defend my nation against all enemies foreign and domestic, etc.

My understanding is that Christians like Catholics and Lutherans are prevented from becoming Freemasons because the Freemasons have practices that offer a different path to heaven/salvation - through works rather than believing that Jesus died for your sins and it is only through the grace of God that you will receive the Kingdom of Heaven, etc. At least that's what my LCMS grandmother told me. I never researched it too much because I knew that as a Lutheran, we weren't allowed to join anyway.

A quick scour of Google turns up this document from the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod that cites some of their reasons for being opposed to Freemasonry - https://www.lcms.org/document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=282

Might be a topic better suited for the Religion Board.
BrazosBendHorn
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Quote:

My understanding is that Christians like Catholics and Lutherans are prevented from becoming Freemasons because the Freemasons have practices that offer a different path to heaven/salvation -

Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (both theologically conservative) definitely have a prohibition about belonging to the Masons. I'm not aware of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (the largest Lutheran denomination in the USA) having an issue with this. (btw, my mom's side of the family is nearly all ELCA Lutheran.)
BQ78
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Hollywood:

Catholics believe good works are essential for salvation, not just acceptance of Christ, i.e. good works are a manifstation of acceptance. I think the Catholic big beef with Freemasonry are the Deistic aspects of the organization.
74OA
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Wiki: "The "irreconcilable principles" that the Catholic Church believes Freemasonry possesses include a "deistic God", naturalism,and religious indifferentism."
HollywoodBQ
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BQ78 said:

Hollywood:

Catholics believe good works are essential for salvation, not just acceptance of Christ, i.e. good works are a manifstation of acceptance. I think the Catholic big beef with Freemasonry are the Deistic aspects of the organization.
Yeah, I could have worded that better. I just kind of typed stream of consciousness. What I intended to say was:
Certain Christian denominations do not allow their members to participate in Freemasonry.
Lutherans and Catholics are two examples of this.
Sapper Redux
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Ironically, most of the Masons I know today are also Catholic.
terata
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Excellent, Dr. Watson. Freemasonry in no way, shape or form blocks any Mason, or aspiring Mason from worshipping God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, regardless of the title they're given in any culture. I am a Mason and it's one of the best choices I've ever made.
Belton Ag
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I clicked on this thread thinking OP was handing out concrete blocks.
Presley OBannons Sword
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Belton Ag said:

I clicked on this thread thinking OP was handing out concrete blocks.

Same.
coupland boy
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This is interesting. I went to a Mason's funeral once and i got somewhat of a convoluted answer about Christianity from the guy's son.

I'm Lutheran and our church was once ALC which switched to ELCA and then we split off and went LCMC.

Kind of reminds me of this Judean People's Front bit from Monty Python whenever i use those acronyms.

BrazosBendHorn
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Quote:

I'm Lutheran and our church was once ALC which switched to ELCA and then we split off and went LCMC.

Kind of reminds me of this Judean People's Front bit from Monty Python whenever i use those acronyms.

From the Wikipedia entry for ALC:

Quote:

The ALC was a founding member of the "Lutheran Council in the United States of America", which began on January 1, 1967. The ALC cooperated with the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod in many ventures, but the ties came to an end when talks concerning a merger of the ALC with the Lutheran Church in America began.

After six years, in 1966, Canadian congregations of the ALC formed the autonomous Evangelical Lutheran Church of Canada (ELCC), which in 1986 joined with the Lutheran Church in America Canada Section (LCA-CS) (former LCA congregations in separate regional synods in Canada) to form the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada (ELCIC).

---

American Lutheran Church (19301960)
The first American Lutheran Church was formed in 1930 by a merger of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Iowa and Other States (est. 1854), the Lutheran Synod of Buffalo (est. 1845), and the Evangelical Lutheran Joint Synod of Ohio and Other States (established 1818 from Ministerium of Pennsylvania), with headquarters in Columbus, Ohio. After the merger of 1960, this body was informally referred to as the "old American Lutheran Church" or the "first American Lutheran Church" to distinguish it from the later body into which it had been absorbed.

Evangelical Lutheran Church
The Evangelical Lutheran Church, established in 1917 and known from its founding until 1946 as the Norwegian Lutheran Church of America (NLCA). The NLCA had itself been formed from a merger of the Hauge Synod (established 1876), the Norwegian Synod (established 1853), and the United Norwegian Lutheran Church of America (established 1890).

United Evangelical Lutheran Church
The United Evangelical Lutheran Church, founded in 1896, and known until 1946 as the United Danish Evangelical Lutheran Church. The UDELC had been formed from a merger of the Danish Evangelical Lutheran Association in America (the "Blair Church", established 1884) and the Danish Evangelical Lutheran Church in North America (the "North Church", established 1894).

Lutheran Free Church
The Lutheran Free Church, which had broken away from the United Norwegian Lutheran Church in 1897, joined the ALC on February 1, 1963. Forty Lutheran Free Church congregations chose not to participate in the merger, and instead formed the Association of Free Lutheran Congregations, today the sixth-largest Lutheran denomination in the U.S. with over 250 congregations.
BTW, my mom and one of my cousins attended Augustana College. (The Augustana College in Rock Island, IL. NOT the Augustana College in Sioux Falls, SD. Not that there's anything wrong with that.)
BrazosBendHorn
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The divide between LCA and LCMS was serious enough to be grist for a Cheers script ...




FWIW, my parents felt that there was less of a divide between the LCA and PCUSA than between LCA and LCMS ...
BrazosBendHorn
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Quote:

Comedian Emo Phillips wrote a joke about our tendency as Christians to obsess over the differences between us while ignoring the many beliefs and practices that we have in common. Apparently, the joke is hilarious; GQ magazine named it the 44th funniest joke of all time in "The 75 Funniest Jokes of All Time" (June 1999).
Here's the joke:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"

He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"


He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"


He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me too! Protestant or Catholic?"


He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! What denomination?"


He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"


He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"


He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes
Region or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"


He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me too!"


"Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879 or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"


He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912" I said, "Die heretic!" And I pushed him over.

Purple Parrot
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Stive
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AG
Man I loved Cheers
Rabid Cougar
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BrazosBendHorn said:

The divide between LCA and LCMS was serious enough to be grist for a Cheers script ...




FWIW, my parents felt that there was less of a divide between the LCA and PCUSA than between LCA and LCMS ...
that's some funny stuff there. I miss that show. It reminds me of my wife and I. She was Catholic and I was Baptist. We compromised and became Catholic Lite ==== Methodist.
Blue Bell Ag
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I know the Catholic Church discourages its members from joining Freemasonry, but I didn't know the various Lutheran churches have the same restriction.

Given the strong German heritage of the town where I live, Most of our Lodge members are Lutherans. We even
have a Lutheran pastor.

HollywoodBQ
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I had never seen that video before. That was hilarious. Thanks.

For your six degrees of separation from Cheers, I used to see Ted Danson frequently at Coogies in Malibu before he resurrected his career and booked the CSI gig. And my kids unknowingly hit Kirstie Allie's house in Toluca Lake for Halloween one year. She handed out flyers for Scientology.
coupland boy
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I remember that episode. Greatness!

"Heretic!!"
BrazosBendHorn
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I've enjoyed this thread so much, I almost forgot to ask: What the heck is it doing in the History forum, rather than R&P?
coupland boy
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BrazosBendHorn said:

I've enjoyed this thread so much, I almost forgot to ask: What the heck is it doing in the History forum, rather than R&P?


Not only that, we took a thread about free masonry and turned it into one about Lutherans.
BrazosBendHorn
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On a related note: I used to listen to Prairie Home Companion just to hear all the humorous references to Lutherans and people of Scandinavian descent living in Iowa and Minnesota. It really resonated with me, since my mom and her brothers grew up on a farm near Swedesburg, IA. Hearing Garrison Keillor spin those tales about midwestern Swedes and Lutherans, I would nod my head and think, "Yeah, I get that. That's them (my cousins, aunts & uncles, and grandparents) all over."

PHC hasn't been the same since Keilor left ...
terata
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How many of those fine Lutherans were Free Masons?
CanyonAg77
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To qualify the following, let me say that almost none of my direct relatives or in-laws are or have been Masons. None of us have been in any Fraternal order of any sort, at least not in recent generations. I have known a few people growing up who were Masons, and don't have any opinions on them more or less favorable than the non-Masons I knew when I was a kid.

And I talk about "as a kid", because I can't think of anyone my age or younger who is a member of any such group. I think my generation thought it was just for the old farts, and have too many other demands on our time.


All that being said, the sole relative (and him by marriage) that I knew to be a Mason, passed away several years ago. At the funeral, a few Masons came to do their graveside rites. Another elderly relative, who has also since passed, was grumbling about the Masons. I forget the exact words, but the sentiment was basically

"They ain't nothin' but a high class version of the KKK...."

There wasn't a lot of explanation, so I didn't know if the disparagement was that they were racist, or that they were a secret society, or that they were elitist. Knowing the relative, the dislike was probably least to most, in the order I gave.

Anyone have any insight on the comments? Do the Masons have a racist past? Or do you figure is was just a distrust of secret societies in general?
Ol Jock 99
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BrazosBendHorn said:

I've enjoyed this thread so much, I almost forgot to ask: What the heck is it doing in the History forum, rather than R&P?
Have you been over there? This thread would be 30 pages and none would be able the topic of freemasonry.
terata
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I'm just curious, how many reading the History board are MASONS?
Blue Bell Ag
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terata said:

I'm just curious, how many reading the History board are MASONS?

It looks like at least two of us.
The Original AG 76
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I read somewhere that fraternal social type orgs like the ELKS are on life support as young folks simply do not join. The Knights Of Columbus are battling a dwindling membership as is the Protestant club..Demolay ( sorry if misspelled).
Are young uns getting into Masons as avidly as their fathers ? I know a lot of old guys that are Masons but I can't think of a single 20 or 30whatever that I can identify as a member of any social frat ( non school).
Ol Jock 99
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The Lake Highlands area of Dallas has a pretty viberant civic organization culture (part of what drove us here), but I'm. It sure on Masons. Most of the guys are Exchange or Elks, and the girls are Women's League or Jr Women's. They actually just started a new women's group called 100 Women because the Leagues are full.
Stive
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Mason's are on life support in the US as well. I'd say less than 1 in 10 sons of Masons join, and the number of young men joining that don't have a father connection is virtually zero. My father in law is in the Fort Worth lodge and is a past potentate for the shriners over there. They drag us along to an event or two per year and other than my brother in law (age 40), you might see one or two others less than 60 years old in the room, and my brother in law isn't really involved anymore after joining 10 years ago. They're hemorrhaging members because of age/death on an annual basis and replacing less than 5% of that number annually (FIL's numbers).

Their fundraising is antiquated, the reasons men used to join lodges aren't really there anymore. I admire the Shriners support of the hospitals and burn centers, but their marketing of that fact is virtually non-existent. If you don't have a direct connection to them (like me) to know what they do in the service area, or unless you've had to use the Scottish Rite hospitals or the Shrine burn clinics, then you have no idea where their philanthropic interests lie.

I'd say it's likely that in 50 years those organizations will be non-existent in the US.
BQ78
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Not trying to paint with too broad a brush here but the young people and youth of today don't seem to be joiners of anything other than sports organizations such as elite sports teams. Guess momma and daddy think every little junior is going to be a professionald athlete. Dreams will die hard when they all don't get a trophy anymore.
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