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3,192 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Dr.Rumack
azul_rain
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so im on a bit of a health journey and i want to fix my sleep.

I have to take 2 melatonin gummies everynight for me to fall asleep. I consistently also wake up at least once a night at around 2am like clockwork. Any idea on what it could be?
Vernada
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AG
Gotta pee.

Oh, is that only me?
azul_rain
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nope
MizooAg94
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AG
Have you tried 400 mg of magnesium glycinate wi th dinner?
mrsbeer05
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AG
Last year I went no alcohol and got the best sleep I've had in a long time. What's your alcohol consumption like?
azul_rain
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maybe once a month at most
Outdoorag011
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Could be sleep apnea. Sounds pretty close to what I had/have.
bigtruckguy3500
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Could very well be the melatonin. The amount of melatonin people take many times more than what they should be taking. I cut a 3mg melatonin into 4 (so it's 0.75mg) and I still think that's too much.

The brain detects rises and falls in melatonin to trigger sleepiness and wakefulness. Taking a lot will definitely trigger a rise, but there will be a large fall in the level that'll probably trigger you to wake up.

Also, even though melatonin is "natural," it can still be habit forming and isn't something you should be needing to fall asleep. I would recommend weaning yourself off and look at why you need it in the first place. Fix that.
azul_rain
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i need melatonin because i have difficulty falling asleep
ptothemo
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AG
The point is what happens when the dosage wears off. In I'm not a doctor terms, the consistent elevation in amount is resetting the brain's normal. So when the elevated amount wears off each night, the brain thinks it is time to wake.
Vernada
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AG
Can you identify why you have trouble falling asleep?

Do you a "bedtime" routine? Avoid screens? Etc
azul_rain
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Difficult to say, lately I've been stopping looking at screens an hour before bed. I'm still tired but my mind is restless
Ragoo
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AG
The answer is always exercise. Physically exhaust your body into wanting sleep.
OasisMan
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AG
Quote:

Sleep hygiene Sleep hygiene refers to actions that tend to improve and maintain good sleep [13]:
Sleep as long as necessary to feel rested (usually seven to eight hours for adults) and then get out of bed
Maintain a regular sleep schedule, particularly a regular wake-up time in the morning
Try not to force sleep
Avoid caffeinated beverages after lunch
Avoid alcohol near bedtime (eg, late afternoon and evening) [14,15]
Avoid smoking or other nicotine intake, particularly during the evening [15]
Adjust the bedroom environment as needed to decrease stimuli (eg, reduce ambient light, turn off the television or radio)
Avoid prolonged use of light-emitting screens (laptops, tablets, smartphones, ebooks) before bedtime [16,17]
Resolve concerns or worries before bedtime
Exercise regularly for at least 20 minutes, preferably more than four to five hours prior to bedtime [18,19]
Avoid daytime naps, especially if they are longer than 20 to 30 minutes or occur late in the day

Sleep hygiene counseling alone has not been directly compared with no intervention or a sham intervention. However, numerous clinical trials have used sleep hygiene counseling alone as the control intervention and showed some improvement in sleep but less than that seen with pharmacotherapy or cognitive behavioral therapy [20-22].

Stimulus control Patients with insomnia may associate their bed and bedroom with the fear of not sleeping or other arousing events, rather than the more pleasurable anticipation of sleep. The longer one stays in bed trying to sleep, the stronger the association becomes. This perpetuates the difficulty falling asleep.
Stimulus control therapy is a strategy whose purpose is to disrupt this association by enhancing the likelihood of sleep (table 3) [23]. Patients should not go to bed until they are sleepy and should use the bed primarily for sleep (and not for reading, watching television, eating, or worrying). If patients are unable to sleep, they should get out of bed and engage in a relaxing activity, such as reading or listening to soothing music, and return only when sleepy. Typically, this is within 20 minutes. Patients should not engage in activities that stimulate them or reward them for being awake in the middle of the night, such as eating or watching television. In addition, they should not return to bed until they are tired and feel ready to sleep. If they return to bed and still cannot sleep, the process should be repeated. An alarm should be set to wake the patient at the same time every morning, including weekends. Daytime naps are not allowed.
Patients may not improve immediately. However, accumulating sleepiness will facilitate sleep during successive nights.
Stimulus control therapy has improved sleep in randomized trials and its effects may be long lasting [24-26]. One study suggested that stimulus control therapy is more effective among patients who are not already taking medications for insomnia [27].
from uptodate

reading in bed makes me sleepy
azul_rain
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I've been upping that lately, I'm probably gonna stop with the melatonin, I always feel exhausted the next day
LOYAL AG
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AG
When you wake up in the middle of the night are you hot? That was my MO for years, waking up around 2 or 3 hot, sometimes too hot to go back to sleep. We spent years on a Sleep Number bed with a 3" memory foam top and we were both hot, for me too hot to sleep sometimes.

I've made three changes since early May:

1. In early May we bought a Purple 3 to get away from the foam and it's made a nice difference in my sleeping. I stopped overheating immediately. That bed seems to be a lot better at managing body temp than any foam we've slept on.
2. We turned the temp down from 71 to 69 at night. Made that change around July 1. That was one I was curious about initially because I tend to pull the covers up regardless of the room temp which is why I overheat. I wasn't overheating anymore but Mrs. LOYAL AG read that a colder room promotes sleep so we made that change and I think it's helped.
3. I'd been taking 2.5 mg of melatonin a day for years with better results than no melatonin but still not great. Better basically meant that I went from 1-2 nights per week waking up at 230 after 3-4 hours to about 1 night every 10-14 days getting 3-4 hours so it was a huge improvement. About three weeks ago I stopped melatonin cold turkey and started taking 30 mg/day of CBD and I can't remember the last time I slept so consistently well.

Right now I'm as happy with my sleep as I've been in at least 30 years. I sleep consistently well and wake up refreshed pretty much every day.
wbt5845
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AG
Ragoo said:

The answer is always exercise. Physically exhaust your body into wanting sleep.
Came here to say this. All my sleeping problems have been cleared up with about 1 hour of vigorous exercise per day (along with about 90 lbs of fat).
azul_rain
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Well I'm in the middle of my weight loss journey so I'm hoping my sleep will improve vastly once I hit my goal
wbt5845
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AG
hedge said:

Well I'm in the middle of my weight loss journey so I'm hoping my sleep will improve vastly once I hit my goal

Good for you. Getting in better shape is a huge part of sleeping better. Diet is #1 priority in losing weight. But if you haven't started exercising yet, consider a brisk 1 mile walk after dinner as a starter.
azul_rain
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I've been jogging 2 miles about 5/6x a week, plus weights every other day. My sleep is horrendous right now, it was way better when I wasn't active and still eating like ****
LOYAL AG
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AG
hedge said:

I've been jogging 2 miles about 5/6x a week, plus weights every other day. My sleep is horrendous right now, it was way better when I wasn't active and still eating like ****
Assuming the workout routine is relatively new IMO this is a temporary problem. Your body hasn't adjusted to the "new normal" from the exercise regimen. In mid-May I went from 3-4 bike rides per week to 2-3 rides and 3 Murph Challenge oriented workouts per week. I spent all of June exhausted with the change in routine but about July 10 I started to stabilize and have felt significantly better since that time.
azul_rain
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No the workout routine isn't new
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by user
rkinsey07
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"Avoid alcohol near bedtime (eg, late afternoon and evening) [14,15]"

Did anyone else chuckle at this? So....beer for breakfast????
AggieOO
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Can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning.
azul_rain
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Went to bed at 9:15, was exhausted. Woke up at around 11:45pm. Couldn't fall asleep til about 5am, even then sleep was light. Quite possibly worst sleep I've had since college
Kool
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AG
hedge said:

Went to bed at 9:15, was exhausted. Woke up at around 11:45pm. Couldn't fall asleep til about 5am, even then sleep was light. Quite possibly worst sleep I've had since college
You might want to try something unorthodox (in addition to following all of the info about sleep hygiene given above):
Sleep restriction can sometimes be a good adjunct to treating insomnia, especially sleep onset insomnia but other forms as well. Basically, pick a wake-up time and back off 6-7 hours. No naps, no cheating, do not get into bed until a few minutes before that time. Basically, you are trying to make yourself "starving for sleep" and get used to the fact that you can get off to sleep quickly. Also, let adenosine build up during the day by getting exercise and avoiding caffeine, as stated above. Adenosine is what builds up sleep pressure, in addition to the normal circadian and social zeitgeibers (time keepers). Exercise and time spent awake build up adenosine, caffeine blocks it. HTH
Edit: This is just a temporary measure, as you normally need to get to a normal habit of 7-9 hours of sleep per day.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
500,000ags
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AG
I have been using a Chilipad for about 2.5 weeks and I have been falling asleep faster. I'm still waking up after 4-5 hours if I set the temp too cold, so still trying to get the temp right.
JYDog90
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AG
OasisMan said:


from uptodate

reading in bed makes me sleepy
I was listening to a podcast and they were advertising WHOOP and the guy said that he's noticed on the nights when he reads, even for 10 minutes, before he goes to bed, his recovery is 10% better.
Formerly Willy Wonka
JYDog90
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AG
500,000ags said:

I have been using a Chilipad for about 2.5 weeks and I have been falling asleep faster. I'm still waking up after 4-5 hours if I set the temp too cold, so still trying to get the temp right.
First I've heard of this. Wow, those things are pricey.
Formerly Willy Wonka
lazuras_dc
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AG
Chili pad is highly touted by several big time CEO's as one of their "life hacks" as well as endorsed by some folks like Peter Attia, MD. I want one but hard to pull the trigger on cost.
500,000ags
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AG
It's been several weeks now. Still kind of the same for me, it's helping me fall asleep faster, but it's not making me sleep more. The less tossing and turning has been good.

I can't remember the sale in September, but my half king was marked down from $599 to $399.
Dr.Rumack
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Have you tried Sleep MD? Over the counter. Natural and it works great.
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