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How is your gym getting around the TX mask mandate?

2,946 Views | 34 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by TurboVelo
Capitol Ag
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Serious question. I honestly feel that a mask has no place in the gym for safety and performance concerns regarding those that train hard. I tend to focus on strength and programming for strength performance and cannot fathom putting an athlete under a heavy barbell, plus try to teach them proper breathing technique that is essential for safety when using heavy barbells. Now that we have had one complaint to the city (coward couldn't just tell us his concerns-we have a very small staff and so I'd know if he approached our manager or owner), I'm trying to see what other gyms are doing to allow people to be able to train at high levels without having to deal with masking up and not getting O2 they need. And that's not to mention the chronicled dangers of high level HIIT and cardio training our athlete level members do.

Side note, we've had one complaint (apparently) for not using a mask but about every other member has approached me in hopes we won't require a mask while they actually train.

Thoughts? Loop holes?
TXTransplant
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I attend fitness classes at a small, "boutique" studio. Right now, we are limited to no more than 10 people per class, including the instructor.

A couple of weeks ago, they started requiring masks to enter the waiting area. You can take the mask off when you enter the room where we have class, and you do not have to wear the mask while you work out. You're expected to put the mask back on to exit the studio via the waiting area.

It makes no sense, considering we spend 50 minutes breathing all over each other during class, but it is what it is.

We also have our temperatures taken when we arrive for class.

There was a small outbreak in one class a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't attend the class where it happened.
ptothemo
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The published policy at my gym is that a mask is required at all times, including exercise, unless wearing one puts someone at greater risk than not. The policy that is effectively enforced is that masks are required when in common areas (lobby, restrooms, etc.) but not when you are exercising. The overall enforcement really depends on the time of day, how many people are there, and who is there.

For example, weekdays early in the morning, there is basically no enforcement of mask wearing at all. Wear one when you come in and wear one when you are leaving, and they don't worry about it other than that.

Second example, I was there on Saturday later in the morning, and they were more strict about the enforcement. If someone was not actively exercising, including moving between different equipment and standing around between sets, they were asking you to have a mask on.

In my view, the biggest difference in those two is the fact that the former situation is largely the same people everyday, everyone kind of senses other people's routines, and everyone stays out of each other's way to get their work done and get out. The latter situation is a more varied crowd, has less structure, and has more people present overall.

I don't know that this answers the question overall or helps any, but I have appreciated how they have handled the situation. Is it technically inconsistent enforcement? Yes, but it is reasonable in my opinion and I think that's what the goal should be anyway. I would be frustrated if I had to wear a mask early in the morning when it's all regulars, but I also don't mind when they ask me to wear one at other times when the crowd is more random and larger.
htxag09
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Our gym originally sent out the email and nobody followed it. So they recently sent a new one stressing the importance of following or our gym will be closed and staff will be enforcing it.

Classes are limited so people are more than 6' from each other. So when you get to your bike or mat you can take off your mask. This is from my wife and she doesn't do HIIT classes where you're moving around so not sure how those work.

Treadmills are also spaced out so you can take your mask off at your treadmill. Supposed to keep a mask on in the weight areas as people are moving around.

I've mainly just been going to swim. Wear mask to enter, go to locker room to put my things up, leave mask in my locker. Put my mask on when I leave.
SoTheySay
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S
Our gym requires the mask to enter or exit the studio and transition between equipment. The social aspect is basically gone. So far, so good. But I miss the "old way".
OilandGasAg2014
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Our gym "requires" a mask entering and exiting the building and you must wear one if you can't be separated by 6 ft. or more by someone not in your household. Loosely being enforced and is being posted around the gym for liability purposes more than anything.
TwoMarksHand
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No requirements.
TurboVelo
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Capitol Ag said:

Serious question. I honestly feel that a mask has no place in the gym for safety and performance concerns regarding those that train hard. I tend to focus on strength and programming for strength performance and cannot fathom putting an athlete under a heavy barbell, plus try to teach them proper breathing technique that is essential for safety when using heavy barbells. Now that we have had one complaint to the city (coward couldn't just tell us his concerns-we have a very small staff and so I'd know if he approached our manager or owner), I'm trying to see what other gyms are doing to allow people to be able to train at high levels without having to deal with masking up and not getting O2 they need. And that's not to mention the chronicled dangers of high level HIIT and cardio training our athlete level members do.

Side note, we've had one complaint (apparently) for not using a mask but about every other member has approached me in hopes we won't require a mask while they actually train.

Thoughts? Loop holes?
We trained in masks at the Olympic Training Center and in Beijing at times, but obviously the training at local gyms is much more intense.
wangus12
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Small studio style gym. Require temperature and a mask to enter, but then everyone takes it off once approved. Wipe down equipment stations between reps.

Definitely not the safest protocols out there
bagger05
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Most people in the early crowd at my gym are being responsible and only take off their mask while actually working. Wear it betweeen sets or when walking around. Probably half leave them on the whole time. Almost everyone is diligent about cleaning equipment with the disinfectant they provide. At the very least they clean off seats and surfaces. Most wipe barbells and dumbbells as well.

Afternoon crowd was a different story. Few wearing them at all. Many not cleaning after themselves. Gym doesn't seem to care. Had one dude on steroids that insisted on sitting down at the bench I was finished with before I could wipe it down (like at all; even sans COVID that's gross).
htxag09
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bagger05 said:

Most people in the early crowd at my gym are being responsible and only take off their mask while actually working. Wear it betweeen sets or when walking around.

I personally don't think taking on and off a mask between sets and every time you move to a new station is responsible. If they are sick, that's a lot of touching around their face before touching equipment.
Brewsky09
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At mines, masks are required when entering and exiting the building and in the locker rooms. It is not required when working out. I have heard of several that are following the same protocol, but have also talked to some folks that go to gyms that are requiring masks the entire time.
Capitol Ag
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TxsAggieFn said:

Capitol Ag said:

Serious question. I honestly feel that a mask has no place in the gym for safety and performance concerns regarding those that train hard. I tend to focus on strength and programming for strength performance and cannot fathom putting an athlete under a heavy barbell, plus try to teach them proper breathing technique that is essential for safety when using heavy barbells. Now that we have had one complaint to the city (coward couldn't just tell us his concerns-we have a very small staff and so I'd know if he approached our manager or owner), I'm trying to see what other gyms are doing to allow people to be able to train at high levels without having to deal with masking up and not getting O2 they need. And that's not to mention the chronicled dangers of high level HIIT and cardio training our athlete level members do.

Side note, we've had one complaint (apparently) for not using a mask but about every other member has approached me in hopes we won't require a mask while they actually train.

Thoughts? Loop holes?
We trained in masks at the Olympic Training Center and in Beijing at times, but obviously the training at local gyms is much more intense.


And that's great for an Olympic athlete. Since most of mine are more concerned with a higher squat, dead lift or press, and they won't be at an altitude, it really wouldn't be relevant. Can you show me the benefits of wearing a mask for performance purposes and if the athlete isn't worried about hitting there PR at 11,000 feet?
Hincemm
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TXTransplant said:

I attend fitness classes at a small, "boutique" studio. Right now, we are limited to no more than 10 people per class, including the instructor.

A couple of weeks ago, they started requiring masks to enter the waiting area. You can take the mask off when you enter the room where we have class, and you do not have to wear the mask while you work out. You're expected to put the mask back on to exit the studio via the waiting area.

It makes no sense, considering we spend 50 minutes breathing all over each other during class, but it is what it is.

We also have our temperatures taken when we arrive for class.

There was a small outbreak in one class a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't attend the class where it happened.
basically what orange theory is doing...
TurboVelo
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Capitol Ag said:

TxsAggieFn said:

Capitol Ag said:

Serious question. I honestly feel that a mask has no place in the gym for safety and performance concerns regarding those that train hard. I tend to focus on strength and programming for strength performance and cannot fathom putting an athlete under a heavy barbell, plus try to teach them proper breathing technique that is essential for safety when using heavy barbells. Now that we have had one complaint to the city (coward couldn't just tell us his concerns-we have a very small staff and so I'd know if he approached our manager or owner), I'm trying to see what other gyms are doing to allow people to be able to train at high levels without having to deal with masking up and not getting O2 they need. And that's not to mention the chronicled dangers of high level HIIT and cardio training our athlete level members do.

Side note, we've had one complaint (apparently) for not using a mask but about every other member has approached me in hopes we won't require a mask while they actually train.

Thoughts? Loop holes?
We trained in masks at the Olympic Training Center and in Beijing at times, but obviously the training at local gyms is much more intense.


And that's great for an Olympic athlete. Since most of mine are more concerned with a higher squat, dead lift or press, and they won't be at an altitude, it really wouldn't be relevant. Can you show me the benefits of wearing a mask for performance purposes and if the athlete isn't worried about hitting there PR at 11,000 feet?

The primary advantage of a mask is reducing / eliminating pollutants, allergens, and infectious materials. There is an additional benefit for those with exercise induced asthma / bronchitis by increasing humidity and thus increasing performance. This is especially true in gyms that have the A/C cranked.

The marketing hype of "altitude masks" is completely fabricated: they don't work. Actual altitude training works because of decreased pressure, not a supposed decrease in oxygen as a percentage of atmosphere. Masks do not reduce oxygen intake, regardless of what the BroScience guys say. This can be EASILY demonstrated with a finger pulse ox.

The benefits of staying healthy far outweigh a perceived discomfort because of a mask. Teach mental toughness instead of teaching loopholes.
TurboVelo
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I want to add that the likelihood and severity of catching any respiratory infection compounds by how much is inhaled. This is because your body starts to fight the infection with fewer infectious particles.

The more viral load inhaled, the more likely it is that one will get sick, and the more severe that infection will probably be. Passing through an infected person's exhale may not even get you sick, or your body can fight it off with less impact. Inhaling a lot of virus particles because you are breathing hard in the same room as an infected person that is also breathing hard for an hour creates exactly that risk. Of course, it would be best if the infected person didn't go, but many are shedding viral particles before they even realize they are sick or symptomatic.

If trainers and gym staff will wear masks while working & working out, most people will follow suit. Nobody at a gym wants to be perceived as the one taking short cuts.
bushytailed
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Brewsky09 said:

At mines, masks are required when entering and exiting the building and in the locker rooms. It is not required when working out. I have heard of several that are following the same protocol, but have also talked to some folks that go to gyms that are requiring masks the entire time.

This is basically what the Golds in BCS were doing after the county mandate. Now that Abbott has imposed the state mandate Golds is expecting you to wear it all the time, including classes. That said, no one in my cardio classes has been wearing them. Enforcement on the floor varies depending on which staff are working.
Capitol Ag
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TxsAggieFn said:

Capitol Ag said:

TxsAggieFn said:

Capitol Ag said:

Serious question. I honestly feel that a mask has no place in the gym for safety and performance concerns regarding those that train hard. I tend to focus on strength and programming for strength performance and cannot fathom putting an athlete under a heavy barbell, plus try to teach them proper breathing technique that is essential for safety when using heavy barbells. Now that we have had one complaint to the city (coward couldn't just tell us his concerns-we have a very small staff and so I'd know if he approached our manager or owner), I'm trying to see what other gyms are doing to allow people to be able to train at high levels without having to deal with masking up and not getting O2 they need. And that's not to mention the chronicled dangers of high level HIIT and cardio training our athlete level members do.

Side note, we've had one complaint (apparently) for not using a mask but about every other member has approached me in hopes we won't require a mask while they actually train.

Thoughts? Loop holes?
We trained in masks at the Olympic Training Center and in Beijing at times, but obviously the training at local gyms is much more intense.


And that's great for an Olympic athlete. Since most of mine are more concerned with a higher squat, dead lift or press, and they won't be at an altitude, it really wouldn't be relevant. Can you show me the benefits of wearing a mask for performance purposes and if the athlete isn't worried about hitting there PR at 11,000 feet?

The primary advantage of a mask is reducing / eliminating pollutants, allergens, and infectious materials. There is an additional benefit for those with exercise induced asthma / bronchitis by increasing humidity and thus increasing performance. This is especially true in gyms that have the A/C cranked.

The marketing hype of "altitude masks" is completely fabricated: they don't work. Actual altitude training works because of decreased pressure, not a supposed decrease in oxygen as a percentage of atmosphere. Masks do not reduce oxygen intake, regardless of what the BroScience guys say. This can be EASILY demonstrated with a finger pulse ox.

The benefits of staying healthy far outweigh a perceived discomfort because of a mask. Teach mental toughness instead of teaching loopholes.
100% agree on the altitude mask comment

Don't agree on the mental toughness part. Seems to me all the restrictions, mandates and rules are policy makers giving into fear and not being tough enough to just push through. My opinion of course. This is a virus that 99.997% survive from. Not a apocalypse virus. There's no need for a mask in the gym that has been proven by science yet.

But I also have to say this. Come to the conclusion that this is a mandate that gym employees do not need to enforce. The mandate hasn't deputized us to enforce so we do not. We put signs up and that's it. Basically stay out of 6 feet but that's it. After reviewing this and conferring with other gyms, there's really no way to enforce it and no need to. If law enforcement would like to come here and write tickets, that would be on them, once they got a warrant.
Capitol Ag
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TxsAggieFn said:

I want to add that the likelihood and severity of catching any respiratory infection compounds by how much is inhaled. This is because your body starts to fight the infection with fewer infectious particles.

The more viral load inhaled, the more likely it is that one will get sick, and the more severe that infection will probably be. Passing through an infected person's exhale may not even get you sick, or your body can fight it off with less impact. Inhaling a lot of virus particles because you are breathing hard in the same room as an infected person that is also breathing hard for an hour creates exactly that risk. Of course, it would be best if the infected person didn't go, but many are shedding viral particles before they even realize they are sick or symptomatic.

If trainers and gym staff will wear masks while working & working out, most people will follow suit. Nobody at a gym wants to be perceived as the one taking short cuts.


On these points, just social distance 6 feet apart. Otherwise one should be fine.

As for us wearing them, since I feel they are dangerous during strenuous training, I'm probably not going to wear one to "encourage" others to. But also, most in our gym do not want to. Doubt seriously if we did it would matter at all. It wouldn't for me.

The thing I've come to realize in all of this is that the government shouldn't put these policy burdens on the people working in the businesses. Enforcement adds extra unnecessary work all for something that's not been proven to do any good anyway but is done b/c it "may work"/Taiwan/S Korea/Japan so let's all be forced to wear them. Legally how does the government take action against a business if it doesn't enforce their policy that they created. The fine would be on the individual not wearing the mask, not the establishment. Honestly it's kinda crazy to think this would be enforceable which leads me to believe that's kinda the point. Abbott doesn't want this. So when he put the mandate out, if you really read it, it's not "law" and not really enforceable by a business. Yes, if a business owners agrees with the mandate they can decide to kick people out. Given the majority of our members do not want to wear a mask, that would be dumb. But that was never the point. Many do not realize that there really are no teeth to this mandate outside of law enforcement raiding an establishment. Raiding a business over people not wearing masks? Sure, maybe in a blue state, but doubt that happens in TX. This is the government's responsibility to enforce. Not our's.
Now I'm sure you'll fire back with a sanctimonious response regarding our "need" to not spread the virus to be more important, and that's fine. I disagree personally but it's all good. Again, if masks were beneficial to performance, people would already wear them. They aren't and actually hinder it, imo. So, like the dumb glove rule that wasn't a rule, this is another BS thing that my members don't need to worry themselves with when training.
ATM9000
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Capitol Ag said:

TxsAggieFn said:

I want to add that the likelihood and severity of catching any respiratory infection compounds by how much is inhaled. This is because your body starts to fight the infection with fewer infectious particles.

The more viral load inhaled, the more likely it is that one will get sick, and the more severe that infection will probably be. Passing through an infected person's exhale may not even get you sick, or your body can fight it off with less impact. Inhaling a lot of virus particles because you are breathing hard in the same room as an infected person that is also breathing hard for an hour creates exactly that risk. Of course, it would be best if the infected person didn't go, but many are shedding viral particles before they even realize they are sick or symptomatic.

If trainers and gym staff will wear masks while working & working out, most people will follow suit. Nobody at a gym wants to be perceived as the one taking short cuts.


On these points, just social distance 6 feet apart. Otherwise one should be fine.

As for us wearing them, since I feel they are dangerous during strenuous training, I'm probably not going to wear one to "encourage" others to. But also, most in our gym do not want to. Doubt seriously if we did it would matter at all. It wouldn't for me.

The thing I've come to realize in all of this is that the government shouldn't put these policy burdens on the people working in the businesses. Enforcement adds extra unnecessary work all for something that's not been proven to do any good anyway but is done b/c it "may work"/Taiwan/S Korea/Japan so let's all be forced to wear them. Legally how does the government take action against a business if it doesn't enforce their policy that they created. The fine would be on the individual not wearing the mask, not the establishment. Honestly it's kinda crazy to think this would be enforceable which leads me to believe that's kinda the point. Abbott doesn't want this. So when he put the mandate out, if you really read it, it's not "law" and not really enforceable by a business. Yes, if a business owners agrees with the mandate they can decide to kick people out. Given the majority of our members do not want to wear a mask, that would be dumb. But that was never the point. Many do not realize that there really are no teeth to this mandate outside of law enforcement raiding an establishment. Raiding a business over people not wearing masks? Sure, maybe in a blue state, but doubt that happens in TX. This is the government's responsibility to enforce. Not our's.
Now I'm sure you'll fire back with a sanctimonious response regarding our "need" to not spread the virus to be more important, and that's fine. I disagree personally but it's all good. Again, if masks were beneficial to performance, people would already wear them. They aren't and actually hinder it, imo. So, like the dumb glove rule that wasn't a rule, this is another BS thing that my members don't need to worry themselves with when training.

I mean... it sounds like you've already made up your mind.

All I'll say though is you've got 1 complaint to the city and I'm guessing you know this because somebody from the city notified you somehow. That alone should be enough to convince you that your whole Abbott theory/blue state rant is rubbish and people ARE tracking this and businesses might get randomly visited... especially if you run a business like a gym where everybody is breathing hard and sweating all over the place. So... now consider that you have 1 KNOWN complaint. What if those pile up? What if actually several have complained but you only know about 1? Again, you know somebody somewhere is paying attention to who is following these orders and you own a higher risk business to spread.

Put aside your personal feelings and those of your gym members for a minute, seems like you not wearing a mask and asking others to do the same is just putting yourself and your members at risk.

Also, not 100% on this, but pretty sure cops don't need to obtain a warrant to walk into your business and write tickets... so... probably another risk you are minimizing... just saying... your whole premise is quite hubristic in my opinion.
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Capitol Ag
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ATM9000 said:

Capitol Ag said:

TxsAggieFn said:

BI want to add that the likelihood and severity of catching any respiratory infection compounds by how much is inhaled. This is because your body starts to fight the infection with fewer infectious particles.

The more viral load inhaled, the more likely it is that one will get sick, and the more severe that infection will probably be. Passing through an infected person's exhale may not even get you sick, or your body can fight it off with less impact. Inhaling a lot of virus particles because you are breathing hard in the same room as an infected person that is also breathing hard for an hour creates exactly that risk. Of course, it would be best if the infected person didn't go, but many are shedding viral particles before they even realize they are sick or symptomatic.

If trainers and gym staff will wear masks while working & working out, most people will follow suit. Nobody at a gym wants to be perceived as the one taking short cuts.


On these points, just social distance 6 feet apart. Otherwise one should be fine.

As for us wearing them, since I feel they are dangerous during strenuous training, I'm probably not going to wear one to "encourage" others to. But also, most in our gym do not want to. Doubt seriously if we did it would matter at all. It wouldn't for me.

The thing I've come to realize in all of this is that the government shouldn't put these policy burdens on the people working in the businesses. Enforcement adds extra unnecessary work all for something that's not been proven to do any good anyway but is done b/c it "may work"/Taiwan/S Korea/Japan so let's all be forced to wear them. Legally how does the government take action against a business if it doesn't enforce their policy that they created. The fine would be on the individual not wearing the mask, not the establishment. Honestly it's kinda crazy to think this would be enforceable which leads me to believe that's kinda the point. Abbott doesn't want this. So when he put the mandate out, if you really read it, it's not "law" and not really enforceable by a business. Yes, if a business owners agrees with the mandate they can decide to kick people out. Given the majority of our members do not want to wear a mask, that would be dumb. But that was never the point. Many do not realize that there really are no teeth to this mandate outside of law enforcement raiding an establishment. Raiding a business over people not wearing masks? Sure, maybe in a blue state, but doubt that happens in TX. This is the government's responsibility to enforce. Not our's.
Now I'm sure you'll fire back with a sanctimonious response regarding our "need" to not spread the virus to be more important, and that's fine. I disagree personally but it's all good. Again, if masks were beneficial to performance, people would already wear them. They aren't and actually hinder it, imo. So, like the dumb glove rule that wasn't a rule, this is another BS thing that my members don't need to worry themselves with when training.

I mean... it sounds like you've already made up your mind.

All I'll say though is you've got 1 complaint to the city and I'm guessing you know this because somebody from the city notified you somehow. That alone should be enough to convince you that your whole Abbott theory/blue state rant is rubbish and people ARE tracking this and businesses might get randomly visited... especially if you run a business like a gym where everybody is breathing hard and sweating all over the place. So... now consider that you have 1 KNOWN complaint. What if those pile up? What if actually several have complained but you only know about 1? Again, you know somebody somewhere is paying attention to who is following these orders and you own a higher risk business to spread.

Put aside your personal feelings and those of your gym members for a minute, seems like you not wearing a mask and asking others to do the same is just putting yourself and your members at risk.

Also, not 100% on this, but pretty sure cops don't need to obtain a warrant to walk into your business and write tickets... so... probably another risk you are minimizing... just saying... your whole premise is quite hubristic in my opinion.
Oh, my mind was made up, hence the "getting around the mandate" question. Almost every gym I have visited online is using loop holes. I wanted to see first hand accounts to see if other gyms in TX and other states with a masking policy are also doing the same. Sounds like it. Honestly, and again, I think it's MORE dangerous to wear a mask while training hard than the possible threat of covid. B/c I believe that and believe truly that the threat to members and the population as a whole is minimal at best, I have to go with what my convictions tell me.

As for being turned in, the gentleman in question with the city never warned or threatened us. He was just getting an idea as to what we were doing. Gyms in the area literally say on their social media that masks are only required IF you cannot SD. It's public record. Until they change, why should we? Also, we've left him 2 messages on Monday and he hasn't called us back. If it was that important to him, you'd think he'd reach out. And yes, we could refuse entry to law enforcement IF it came to that. Technically we are a private club and the mandate is only for public areas. Yes, there is a legal difference and Leg Counsil who writes these knows that. Hence the idea I put out about the will behind the mandate. It's oretty well known Abbott did not want a mask mandate at all. And, given that the man power is limited in terms of enforcement, it appears like there's really no way for this to be realistically adhered to by a gym. It's on the member. No where in the mandate does it state that the responsibility to enforce the policy is on the establishment. I did not realize this at the time I started this thread. It's come to my understanding after I posted here in the late afternoon after conferring with quite a few.

As for our (the gym's) responsibility to its members to "keep them safe", there are limits to that. First, they are adults and can take care of themselves. We are only responsible for reasonable levels of safety, as all businesses are and should be. No where has it been stated that it's our gym's responsibility to keep them from getting a particular virus or any other microbes. Doubt there ever will be. But what of our liability if a member passes out doing cardio while wearing a mask? It's happened so what then? We are NOT specifically telling anyone not to wear a mask. We are telling them to wear a mask when you cannot social distance. Otherwise we say nothing else and our signage we put up after research last night says as much. When asked, we repeat one must be worn when you cannot SD. Given we are not a Globo Gym, it's very easy to SD. There are never more than 5-6 people on average in at a time and the most has been 12. So no one should be breathing heavily near others.

Finally, we have a business model that is set up to have very limited staff. I'm a trainer. That's really all I do or should do. There's 1 manager. That's it. We already go above and beyond what we would normally be expected to do by cleaning equipment at intervals through the day. But we don't have staff in the gym like a Golds or 24. And these types of gyms do not have the budget to hire just to enforce a mask policy, unless the state plans to help us out. The complaint was b/c of members not wearing masks over the weekend when we were not staffed. It was a holiday weekend but we really only staff Friday through Sunday IF we have to. Otherwise, there's no need and if I'm there, I'm training a client. That's my focus as that is what the client is paying for, not for me to worry about whether some person is not wearing a mask. So, again, given our situation, what does the government expect us to do? Even if we had the staff though, why should they be forced to patrol the facility when they already have other tasks to do? Also remember, most Globo Gyms hire minimum wage HS or college students. Not exactly the kind of people that you would expect to ensure a state mandated policy is adhered to.Hence, that enforcement is on the state. It's their mandate, they can do the work.
TurboVelo
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AG
Capitol Ag said:

ATM9000 said:

Capitol Ag said:

TxsAggieFn said:

BI want to add that the likelihood and severity of catching any respiratory infection compounds by how much is inhaled. This is because your body starts to fight the infection with fewer infectious particles.

The more viral load inhaled, the more likely it is that one will get sick, and the more severe that infection will probably be. Passing through an infected person's exhale may not even get you sick, or your body can fight it off with less impact. Inhaling a lot of virus particles because you are breathing hard in the same room as an infected person that is also breathing hard for an hour creates exactly that risk. Of course, it would be best if the infected person didn't go, but many are shedding viral particles before they even realize they are sick or symptomatic.

If trainers and gym staff will wear masks while working & working out, most people will follow suit. Nobody at a gym wants to be perceived as the one taking short cuts.


On these points, just social distance 6 feet apart. Otherwise one should be fine.

As for us wearing them, since I feel they are dangerous during strenuous training, I'm probably not going to wear one to "encourage" others to. But also, most in our gym do not want to. Doubt seriously if we did it would matter at all. It wouldn't for me.

The thing I've come to realize in all of this is that the government shouldn't put these policy burdens on the people working in the businesses. Enforcement adds extra unnecessary work all for something that's not been proven to do any good anyway but is done b/c it "may work"/Taiwan/S Korea/Japan so let's all be forced to wear them. Legally how does the government take action against a business if it doesn't enforce their policy that they created. The fine would be on the individual not wearing the mask, not the establishment. Honestly it's kinda crazy to think this would be enforceable which leads me to believe that's kinda the point. Abbott doesn't want this. So when he put the mandate out, if you really read it, it's not "law" and not really enforceable by a business. Yes, if a business owners agrees with the mandate they can decide to kick people out. Given the majority of our members do not want to wear a mask, that would be dumb. But that was never the point. Many do not realize that there really are no teeth to this mandate outside of law enforcement raiding an establishment. Raiding a business over people not wearing masks? Sure, maybe in a blue state, but doubt that happens in TX. This is the government's responsibility to enforce. Not our's.
Now I'm sure you'll fire back with a sanctimonious response regarding our "need" to not spread the virus to be more important, and that's fine. I disagree personally but it's all good. Again, if masks were beneficial to performance, people would already wear them. They aren't and actually hinder it, imo. So, like the dumb glove rule that wasn't a rule, this is another BS thing that my members don't need to worry themselves with when training.

I mean... it sounds like you've already made up your mind.

All I'll say though is you've got 1 complaint to the city and I'm guessing you know this because somebody from the city notified you somehow. That alone should be enough to convince you that your whole Abbott theory/blue state rant is rubbish and people ARE tracking this and businesses might get randomly visited... especially if you run a business like a gym where everybody is breathing hard and sweating all over the place. So... now consider that you have 1 KNOWN complaint. What if those pile up? What if actually several have complained but you only know about 1? Again, you know somebody somewhere is paying attention to who is following these orders and you own a higher risk business to spread.

Put aside your personal feelings and those of your gym members for a minute, seems like you not wearing a mask and asking others to do the same is just putting yourself and your members at risk.

Also, not 100% on this, but pretty sure cops don't need to obtain a warrant to walk into your business and write tickets... so... probably another risk you are minimizing... just saying... your whole premise is quite hubristic in my opinion.
Oh, my mind was made up, hence the "getting around the mandate" question. Almost every gym I have visited online is using loop holes. I wanted to see first hand accounts to see if other gyms in TX and other states with a masking policy are also doing the same. Sounds like it. Honestly, and again, I think it's MORE dangerous to wear a mask while training hard than the possible threat of covid. B/c I believe that and believe truly that the threat to members and the population as a whole is minimal at best, I have to go with what my convictions tell me.

As for being turned in, the gentleman in question with the city never warned or threatened us. He was just getting an idea as to what we were doing. Gyms in the area literally say on their social media that masks are only required IF you cannot SD. It's public record. Until they change, why should we? Also, we've left him 2 messages on Monday and he hasn't called us back. If it was that important to him, you'd think he'd reach out. And yes, we could refuse entry to law enforcement IF it came to that. Technically we are a private club and the mandate is only for public areas. Yes, there is a legal difference and Leg Counsil who writes these knows that. Hence the idea I put out about the will behind the mandate. It's oretty well known Abbott did not want a mask mandate at all. And, given that the man power is limited in terms of enforcement, it appears like there's really no way for this to be realistically adhered to by a gym. It's on the member. No where in the mandate does it state that the responsibility to enforce the policy is on the establishment. I did not realize this at the time I started this thread. It's come to my understanding after I posted here in the late afternoon after conferring with quite a few.

As for our (the gym's) responsibility to its members to "keep them safe", there are limits to that. First, they are adults and can take care of themselves. We are only responsible for reasonable levels of safety, as all businesses are and should be. No where has it been stated that it's our gym's responsibility to keep them from getting a particular virus or any other microbes. Doubt there ever will be. But what of our liability if a member passes out doing cardio while wearing a mask? It's happened so what then? We are NOT specifically telling anyone not to wear a mask. We are telling them to wear a mask when you cannot social distance. Otherwise we say nothing else and our signage we put up after research last night says as much. When asked, we repeat one must be worn when you cannot SD. Given we are not a Globo Gym, it's very easy to SD. There are never more than 5-6 people on average in at a time and the most has been 12. So no one should be breathing heavily near others.

Finally, we have a business model that is set up to have very limited staff. I'm a trainer. That's really all I do or should do. There's 1 manager. That's it. We already go above and beyond what we would normally be expected to do by cleaning equipment at intervals through the day. But we don't have staff in the gym like a Golds or 24. And these types of gyms do not have the budget to hire just to enforce a mask policy, unless the state plans to help us out. The complaint was b/c of members not wearing masks over the weekend when we were not staffed. It was a holiday weekend but we really only staff Friday through Sunday IF we have to. Otherwise, there's no need and if I'm there, I'm training a client. That's my focus as that is what the client is paying for, not for me to worry about whether some person is not wearing a mask. So, again, given our situation, what does the government expect us to do? Even if we had the staff though, why should they be forced to patrol the facility when they already have other tasks to do? Also remember, most Globo Gyms hire minimum wage HS or college students. Not exactly the kind of people that you would expect to ensure a state mandated policy is adhered to.Hence, that enforcement is on the state. It's their mandate, they can do the work.
You have an interesting point with the term "private club" and I'd be curious to see if that holds up.

As for the masks, all I can tell you is that you are wrong. It's your choice to stick with BroScience, but real science shows there is ZERO risk to working out or competing with a mask. Olympic athletes do it regularly for the sole purpose of protecting themselves from the air around them. Here is a prime example, and NOBODY in your gym has ever pushed themselves without a mask as this guy has with a mask. https://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield/2011/06/what_in_the_world_is_galen_rup.html

The risks of COVID are very real. I know some very good athletes that have been sidelined for months with it, and still waiting to see if they will ever get full lung functionality back. Their careers may be over.

Every Team USA athlete for 2020 (well, now 2021) is being told to wear a mask whenever you're in the same room with anyone outside your household, even working out. But, you obviously know more than the Olympic Team Coaches and Staff.
ATM9000
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AG
Capitol Ag said:

ATM9000 said:

Capitol Ag said:

TxsAggieFn said:

BI want to add that the likelihood and severity of catching any respiratory infection compounds by how much is inhaled. This is because your body starts to fight the infection with fewer infectious particles.

The more viral load inhaled, the more likely it is that one will get sick, and the more severe that infection will probably be. Passing through an infected person's exhale may not even get you sick, or your body can fight it off with less impact. Inhaling a lot of virus particles because you are breathing hard in the same room as an infected person that is also breathing hard for an hour creates exactly that risk. Of course, it would be best if the infected person didn't go, but many are shedding viral particles before they even realize they are sick or symptomatic.

If trainers and gym staff will wear masks while working & working out, most people will follow suit. Nobody at a gym wants to be perceived as the one taking short cuts.


On these points, just social distance 6 feet apart. Otherwise one should be fine.

As for us wearing them, since I feel they are dangerous during strenuous training, I'm probably not going to wear one to "encourage" others to. But also, most in our gym do not want to. Doubt seriously if we did it would matter at all. It wouldn't for me.

The thing I've come to realize in all of this is that the government shouldn't put these policy burdens on the people working in the businesses. Enforcement adds extra unnecessary work all for something that's not been proven to do any good anyway but is done b/c it "may work"/Taiwan/S Korea/Japan so let's all be forced to wear them. Legally how does the government take action against a business if it doesn't enforce their policy that they created. The fine would be on the individual not wearing the mask, not the establishment. Honestly it's kinda crazy to think this would be enforceable which leads me to believe that's kinda the point. Abbott doesn't want this. So when he put the mandate out, if you really read it, it's not "law" and not really enforceable by a business. Yes, if a business owners agrees with the mandate they can decide to kick people out. Given the majority of our members do not want to wear a mask, that would be dumb. But that was never the point. Many do not realize that there really are no teeth to this mandate outside of law enforcement raiding an establishment. Raiding a business over people not wearing masks? Sure, maybe in a blue state, but doubt that happens in TX. This is the government's responsibility to enforce. Not our's.
Now I'm sure you'll fire back with a sanctimonious response regarding our "need" to not spread the virus to be more important, and that's fine. I disagree personally but it's all good. Again, if masks were beneficial to performance, people would already wear them. They aren't and actually hinder it, imo. So, like the dumb glove rule that wasn't a rule, this is another BS thing that my members don't need to worry themselves with when training.

I mean... it sounds like you've already made up your mind.

All I'll say though is you've got 1 complaint to the city and I'm guessing you know this because somebody from the city notified you somehow. That alone should be enough to convince you that your whole Abbott theory/blue state rant is rubbish and people ARE tracking this and businesses might get randomly visited... especially if you run a business like a gym where everybody is breathing hard and sweating all over the place. So... now consider that you have 1 KNOWN complaint. What if those pile up? What if actually several have complained but you only know about 1? Again, you know somebody somewhere is paying attention to who is following these orders and you own a higher risk business to spread.

Put aside your personal feelings and those of your gym members for a minute, seems like you not wearing a mask and asking others to do the same is just putting yourself and your members at risk.

Also, not 100% on this, but pretty sure cops don't need to obtain a warrant to walk into your business and write tickets... so... probably another risk you are minimizing... just saying... your whole premise is quite hubristic in my opinion.
Oh, my mind was made up, hence the "getting around the mandate" question. Almost every gym I have visited online is using loop holes. I wanted to see first hand accounts to see if other gyms in TX and other states with a masking policy are also doing the same. Sounds like it. Honestly, and again, I think it's MORE dangerous to wear a mask while training hard than the possible threat of covid. B/c I believe that and believe truly that the threat to members and the population as a whole is minimal at best, I have to go with what my convictions tell me.

As for being turned in, the gentleman in question with the city never warned or threatened us. He was just getting an idea as to what we were doing. Gyms in the area literally say on their social media that masks are only required IF you cannot SD. It's public record. Until they change, why should we? Also, we've left him 2 messages on Monday and he hasn't called us back. If it was that important to him, you'd think he'd reach out. And yes, we could refuse entry to law enforcement IF it came to that. Technically we are a private club and the mandate is only for public areas. Yes, there is a legal difference and Leg Counsil who writes these knows that. Hence the idea I put out about the will behind the mandate. It's oretty well known Abbott did not want a mask mandate at all. And, given that the man power is limited in terms of enforcement, it appears like there's really no way for this to be realistically adhered to by a gym. It's on the member. No where in the mandate does it state that the responsibility to enforce the policy is on the establishment. I did not realize this at the time I started this thread. It's come to my understanding after I posted here in the late afternoon after conferring with quite a few.

As for our (the gym's) responsibility to its members to "keep them safe", there are limits to that. First, they are adults and can take care of themselves. We are only responsible for reasonable levels of safety, as all businesses are and should be. No where has it been stated that it's our gym's responsibility to keep them from getting a particular virus or any other microbes. Doubt there ever will be. But what of our liability if a member passes out doing cardio while wearing a mask? It's happened so what then? We are NOT specifically telling anyone not to wear a mask. We are telling them to wear a mask when you cannot social distance. Otherwise we say nothing else and our signage we put up after research last night says as much. When asked, we repeat one must be worn when you cannot SD. Given we are not a Globo Gym, it's very easy to SD. There are never more than 5-6 people on average in at a time and the most has been 12. So no one should be breathing heavily near others.

Finally, we have a business model that is set up to have very limited staff. I'm a trainer. That's really all I do or should do. There's 1 manager. That's it. We already go above and beyond what we would normally be expected to do by cleaning equipment at intervals through the day. But we don't have staff in the gym like a Golds or 24. And these types of gyms do not have the budget to hire just to enforce a mask policy, unless the state plans to help us out. The complaint was b/c of members not wearing masks over the weekend when we were not staffed. It was a holiday weekend but we really only staff Friday through Sunday IF we have to. Otherwise, there's no need and if I'm there, I'm training a client. That's my focus as that is what the client is paying for, not for me to worry about whether some person is not wearing a mask. So, again, given our situation, what does the government expect us to do? Even if we had the staff though, why should they be forced to patrol the facility when they already have other tasks to do? Also remember, most Globo Gyms hire minimum wage HS or college students. Not exactly the kind of people that you would expect to ensure a state mandated policy is adhered to.Hence, that enforcement is on the state. It's their mandate, they can do the work.


I think your information is off. The general rule is if you let the public into your place of establishment, then cops can go into it too without a warrant. In others words, cops probably can't go rifling through your offices or employees only areas without a warrant, but if you would, for instance, give any person off the street a tour of the gym which you probably do because you are a gym, then your private club defense to refuse cops entering the premises won't hold up.

End of the day, you are saying this is all without teeth and nobody wants to enforce it and there's not the manpower to. I'm saying you have clear evidence SOMEBODY somewhere is tracking it so you should feel like there's some level of risk that you or your members could be facing some citations at some point and I don't think that risk is minimal nor do I think it applies to just your gym.

I'm not gonna get into safety aspects of this such as your gym becomes a known hotbed for COVID. Just know that there's probably way more risk involved here both financially and reputationally than you seem to want to acknowledge.

Not putting safety aside, so many people seem to conflate 'awkward and uncomfortable' with not safe and I'll leave it at that.
Capitol Ag
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AG
ATM9000 said:

Capitol Ag said:

ATM9000 said:

Capitol Ag said:

TxsAggieFn said:

BI want to add that the likelihood and severity of catching any respiratory infection compounds by how much is inhaled. This is because your body starts to fight the infection with fewer infectious particles.

The more viral load inhaled, the more likely it is that one will get sick, and the more severe that infection will probably be. Passing through an infected person's exhale may not even get you sick, or your body can fight it off with less impact. Inhaling a lot of virus particles because you are breathing hard in the same room as an infected person that is also breathing hard for an hour creates exactly that risk. Of course, it would be best if the infected person didn't go, but many are shedding viral particles before they even realize they are sick or symptomatic.

If trainers and gym staff will wear masks while working & working out, most people will follow suit. Nobody at a gym wants to be perceived as the one taking short cuts.


On these points, just social distance 6 feet apart. Otherwise one should be fine.

As for us wearing them, since I feel they are dangerous during strenuous training, I'm probably not going to wear one to "encourage" others to. But also, most in our gym do not want to. Doubt seriously if we did it would matter at all. It wouldn't for me.

The thing I've come to realize in all of this is that the government shouldn't put these policy burdens on the people working in the businesses. Enforcement adds extra unnecessary work all for something that's not been proven to do any good anyway but is done b/c it "may work"/Taiwan/S Korea/Japan so let's all be forced to wear them. Legally how does the government take action against a business if it doesn't enforce their policy that they created. The fine would be on the individual not wearing the mask, not the establishment. Honestly it's kinda crazy to think this would be enforceable which leads me to believe that's kinda the point. Abbott doesn't want this. So when he put the mandate out, if you really read it, it's not "law" and not really enforceable by a business. Yes, if a business owners agrees with the mandate they can decide to kick people out. Given the majority of our members do not want to wear a mask, that would be dumb. But that was never the point. Many do not realize that there really are no teeth to this mandate outside of law enforcement raiding an establishment. Raiding a business over people not wearing masks? Sure, maybe in a blue state, but doubt that happens in TX. This is the government's responsibility to enforce. Not our's.
Now I'm sure you'll fire back with a sanctimonious response regarding our "need" to not spread the virus to be more important, and that's fine. I disagree personally but it's all good. Again, if masks were beneficial to performance, people would already wear them. They aren't and actually hinder it, imo. So, like the dumb glove rule that wasn't a rule, this is another BS thing that my members don't need to worry themselves with when training.

I mean... it sounds like you've already made up your mind.

All I'll say though is you've got 1 complaint to the city and I'm guessing you know this because somebody from the city notified you somehow. That alone should be enough to convince you that your whole Abbott theory/blue state rant is rubbish and people ARE tracking this and businesses might get randomly visited... especially if you run a business like a gym where everybody is breathing hard and sweating all over the place. So... now consider that you have 1 KNOWN complaint. What if those pile up? What if actually several have complained but you only know about 1? Again, you know somebody somewhere is paying attention to who is following these orders and you own a higher risk business to spread.

Put aside your personal feelings and those of your gym members for a minute, seems like you not wearing a mask and asking others to do the same is just putting yourself and your members at risk.

Also, not 100% on this, but pretty sure cops don't need to obtain a warrant to walk into your business and write tickets... so... probably another risk you are minimizing... just saying... your whole premise is quite hubristic in my opinion.
Oh, my mind was made up, hence the "getting around the mandate" question. Almost every gym I have visited online is using loop holes. I wanted to see first hand accounts to see if other gyms in TX and other states with a masking policy are also doing the same. Sounds like it. Honestly, and again, I think it's MORE dangerous to wear a mask while training hard than the possible threat of covid. B/c I believe that and believe truly that the threat to members and the population as a whole is minimal at best, I have to go with what my convictions tell me.

As for being turned in, the gentleman in question with the city never warned or threatened us. He was just getting an idea as to what we were doing. Gyms in the area literally say on their social media that masks are only required IF you cannot SD. It's public record. Until they change, why should we? Also, we've left him 2 messages on Monday and he hasn't called us back. If it was that important to him, you'd think he'd reach out. And yes, we could refuse entry to law enforcement IF it came to that. Technically we are a private club and the mandate is only for public areas. Yes, there is a legal difference and Leg Counsil who writes these knows that. Hence the idea I put out about the will behind the mandate. It's oretty well known Abbott did not want a mask mandate at all. And, given that the man power is limited in terms of enforcement, it appears like there's really no way for this to be realistically adhered to by a gym. It's on the member. No where in the mandate does it state that the responsibility to enforce the policy is on the establishment. I did not realize this at the time I started this thread. It's come to my understanding after I posted here in the late afternoon after conferring with quite a few.

As for our (the gym's) responsibility to its members to "keep them safe", there are limits to that. First, they are adults and can take care of themselves. We are only responsible for reasonable levels of safety, as all businesses are and should be. No where has it been stated that it's our gym's responsibility to keep them from getting a particular virus or any other microbes. Doubt there ever will be. But what of our liability if a member passes out doing cardio while wearing a mask? It's happened so what then? We are NOT specifically telling anyone not to wear a mask. We are telling them to wear a mask when you cannot social distance. Otherwise we say nothing else and our signage we put up after research last night says as much. When asked, we repeat one must be worn when you cannot SD. Given we are not a Globo Gym, it's very easy to SD. There are never more than 5-6 people on average in at a time and the most has been 12. So no one should be breathing heavily near others.

Finally, we have a business model that is set up to have very limited staff. I'm a trainer. That's really all I do or should do. There's 1 manager. That's it. We already go above and beyond what we would normally be expected to do by cleaning equipment at intervals through the day. But we don't have staff in the gym like a Golds or 24. And these types of gyms do not have the budget to hire just to enforce a mask policy, unless the state plans to help us out. The complaint was b/c of members not wearing masks over the weekend when we were not staffed. It was a holiday weekend but we really only staff Friday through Sunday IF we have to. Otherwise, there's no need and if I'm there, I'm training a client. That's my focus as that is what the client is paying for, not for me to worry about whether some person is not wearing a mask. So, again, given our situation, what does the government expect us to do? Even if we had the staff though, why should they be forced to patrol the facility when they already have other tasks to do? Also remember, most Globo Gyms hire minimum wage HS or college students. Not exactly the kind of people that you would expect to ensure a state mandated policy is adhered to.Hence, that enforcement is on the state. It's their mandate, they can do the work.


I think your information is off. The general rule is if you let the public into your place of establishment, then cops can go into it too without a warrant. In others words, cops probably can't go rifling through your offices or employees only areas without a warrant, but if you would, for instance, give any person off the street a tour of the gym which you probably do because you are a gym, then your private club defense to refuse cops entering the premises won't hold up.

End of the day, you are saying this is all without teeth and nobody wants to enforce it and there's not the manpower to. I'm saying you have clear evidence SOMEBODY somewhere is tracking it so you should feel like there's some level of risk that you or your members could be facing some citations at some point and I don't think that risk is minimal nor do I think it applies to just your gym.

I'm not gonna get into safety aspects of this such as your gym becomes a known hotbed for COVID. Just know that there's probably way more risk involved here both financially and reputationally than you seem to want to acknowledge.

Not putting safety aside, so many people seem to conflate 'awkward and uncomfortable' with not safe and I'll leave it at that.
The safety aspect for me is real.
Wuhan man suffers collapsed lung while running with face mask

Jogger's lung collapsed after wearing mask

Collapsed lungs are not awkward. Just say'n.Yes, it's an extreme. But I'll admit, given the absolutely low death rate and even illness rate of this virus, it's not worth it to me or my members to "adjust" our training for it. Than why do we not make these adjustments for bad flu seasons or for that matter why even drive to the gym and add to those already on the road, since that death toll is massively higher? It's all about perspective. I'm going to do a 350LBS squat for 5 reps. It is hard to catch my breath without a mask. Imagine it WITH a mask. Given this particular virus, it just isn't worth it. And given almost every gym allows no mask while actually training, I have no moral issues with it whatsoever.

We are not open to the "public". In our situation, you do not access to the gym without a key fob. Otherwise we are locked. Also, we are to Thursday and still no contact from the City. We have placed a sign on the door stating that you must wear a mask if within 6 feet of another member. Seems to be the norm at almost every other gym I have researched. SO not too worried. Again, the City and State mandates state no detail as to how a business could be fined. It's primarily on the individual member.

Quote:

Just know that there's probably way more risk involved here both financially and reputationally than you seem to want to acknowledge.
I am well aware. The reason politicians are being so risk averse to this virus is not b/c it's overwhelmingly dangerous to the population as a whole. Statistically the 5 deaths are going down, and the means by which the cases are being tallied are questionable at best. Yes, if a spread were to be pinpointed back to us, the press would have a heyday over it. But this is the risk that we are willing to take. Which, for me, is more that refreshing. And one I wish decision makers in office would make as well so that we can get back to our lives. Look at Destination Dallas Facebook page to see how they are doing this. They are a much larger gym than us, but have some very serious competitive lifters. They specifically state that masks only need to be worn when not training.

Capitol Ag
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TxsAggieFn said:

Capitol Ag said:

Serious question. I honestly feel that a mask has no place in the gym for safety and performance concerns regarding those that train hard. I tend to focus on strength and programming for strength performance and cannot fathom putting an athlete under a heavy barbell, plus try to teach them proper breathing technique that is essential for safety when using heavy barbells. Now that we have had one complaint to the city (coward couldn't just tell us his concerns-we have a very small staff and so I'd know if he approached our manager or owner), I'm trying to see what other gyms are doing to allow people to be able to train at high levels without having to deal with masking up and not getting O2 they need. And that's not to mention the chronicled dangers of high level HIIT and cardio training our athlete level members do.

Side note, we've had one complaint (apparently) for not using a mask but about every other member has approached me in hopes we won't require a mask while they actually train.

Thoughts? Loop holes?
We trained in masks at the Olympic Training Center and in Beijing at times, but obviously the training at local gyms is much more intense.
I meant to address this earlier. So you are saying that the "Olympic athlete" is the bar to set for all training proceedures for all athletes everywhere. Whether that athlete is a 14 year old football player of a 75 year old training with barbells to gain strength. You do realize how ridiculous that sounds. Not to mention, I sure these "Olympic athletes" all set PRs or had incredible workouts those days and I'd assume the mask wearing they did wasn't something they did only rarely but do the vast majority of their training. Probably not. If they really are Olympic athletes, they hopefully are conditioned enough to handle that stress. Most of my clients aren't Olympic athletes. So no, masks are needed for them.

That's like saying "well, a porn star can perform for 45 minutes, then we all should be able to." Most of us can only perform for 35 minutes. Or less in some cases I hear. I wouldn't know though Point is, don't use genetically gifted highly trained athletes as the bar to compare to how everyone else should be measured.
TurboVelo
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AG
Capitol Ag said:

TxsAggieFn said:

Capitol Ag said:

Serious question. I honestly feel that a mask has no place in the gym for safety and performance concerns regarding those that train hard. I tend to focus on strength and programming for strength performance and cannot fathom putting an athlete under a heavy barbell, plus try to teach them proper breathing technique that is essential for safety when using heavy barbells. Now that we have had one complaint to the city (coward couldn't just tell us his concerns-we have a very small staff and so I'd know if he approached our manager or owner), I'm trying to see what other gyms are doing to allow people to be able to train at high levels without having to deal with masking up and not getting O2 they need. And that's not to mention the chronicled dangers of high level HIIT and cardio training our athlete level members do.

Side note, we've had one complaint (apparently) for not using a mask but about every other member has approached me in hopes we won't require a mask while they actually train.

Thoughts? Loop holes?
We trained in masks at the Olympic Training Center and in Beijing at times, but obviously the training at local gyms is much more intense.
I meant to address this earlier. So you are saying that the "Olympic athlete" is the bar to set for all training proceedures for all athletes everywhere. Whether that athlete is a 14 year old football player of a 75 year old training with barbells to gain strength. You do realize how ridiculous that sounds. Not to mention, I sure these "Olympic athletes" all set PRs or had incredible workouts those days and I'd assume the mask wearing they did wasn't something they did only rarely but do the vast majority of their training. Probably not. If they really are Olympic athletes, they hopefully are conditioned enough to handle that stress. Most of my clients aren't Olympic athletes. So no, masks are needed for them.

That's like saying "well, a porn star can perform for 45 minutes, then we all should be able to." Most of us can only perform for 35 minutes. Or less in some cases I hear. I wouldn't know though Point is, don't use genetically gifted highly trained athletes as the bar to compare to how everyone else should be measured.
You have claimed that your members are working out so intensely that masks were "dangerous". I was simply refuting that by showing that athletes that train MUCH more intensely regularly wear masks.

As I also pointed out, one such athlete WON the US National Championships while competing in a mask while others didn't, and those other athletes are also Olympians. ZERO negative effect, except that they are uncomfortable. Nobody likes wearing them. Nobody. But, if people will wear them, they will get used to them and stay much healthier.

Just because Galen Rupp runs sub 4 minute miles, sub 13 minute 5 k's, sub 1hour half marathons doesn't mean that everyone should be able to hit those times. But if he can train and race at thhat intensity while wearing a mask, then nobody has an excuse for not wearing a mask.

You have to decide if you are in the fitness industry and are there to make people healthier in all aspects of their lives, or if you are a used car salesman trying to trying to sell the next workout session. Without masks, you're just trying to sell your next training session instead of trying to keep them healthy.
Vernada
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Quote:

The risks of COVID are very real. I know some very good athletes that have been sidelined for months with it, and still waiting to see if they will ever get full lung functionality back. Their careers may be over.

Every Team USA athlete for 2020 (well, now 2021) is being told to wear a mask whenever you're in the same room with anyone outside your household, even working out. But, you obviously know more than the Olympic Team Coaches and Staff.


I think things like this are key and are what the 'almost no one dies' folks are completely missing. Sure, you may not die... but you also may NEVER be back to your 'normal' self again.
AggieOO
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also, the above post referenced two links that were both about the same case of a guy in Wuhan who had a collapsed lung, while running. That's out of how many people worldwide who have exercised with a mask? And were is the data around weightlifting? All the photos in the second link (except the first) are of models pretending to run with masks photoshopped onto them.

also forgot to mention that the second link with the reasons why you shouldn't exercise with a mask are all talking about exercising outdoors, if you actually read it.

The anti-mask crowd tends to discount those types of claims as fear-mongering and/or "those are lottery type odds, so we don't need to worry about them."
Capitol Ag
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AG
TxsAggieFn said:

Capitol Ag said:

TxsAggieFn said:

Capitol Ag said:

Serious question. I honestly feel that a mask has no place in the gym for safety and performance concerns regarding those that train hard. I tend to focus on strength and programming for strength performance and cannot fathom putting an athlete under a heavy barbell, plus try to teach them proper breathing technique that is essential for safety when using heavy barbells. Now that we have had one complaint to the city (coward couldn't just tell us his concerns-we have a very small staff and so I'd know if he approached our manager or owner), I'm trying to see what other gyms are doing to allow people to be able to train at high levels without having to deal with masking up and not getting O2 they need. And that's not to mention the chronicled dangers of high level HIIT and cardio training our athlete level members do.

Side note, we've had one complaint (apparently) for not using a mask but about every other member has approached me in hopes we won't require a mask while they actually train.

Thoughts? Loop holes?
We trained in masks at the Olympic Training Center and in Beijing at times, but obviously the training at local gyms is much more intense.
I meant to address this earlier. So you are saying that the "Olympic athlete" is the bar to set for all training proceedures for all athletes everywhere. Whether that athlete is a 14 year old football player of a 75 year old training with barbells to gain strength. You do realize how ridiculous that sounds. Not to mention, I sure these "Olympic athletes" all set PRs or had incredible workouts those days and I'd assume the mask wearing they did wasn't something they did only rarely but do the vast majority of their training. Probably not. If they really are Olympic athletes, they hopefully are conditioned enough to handle that stress. Most of my clients aren't Olympic athletes. So no, masks are needed for them.

That's like saying "well, a porn star can perform for 45 minutes, then we all should be able to." Most of us can only perform for 35 minutes. Or less in some cases I hear. I wouldn't know though Point is, don't use genetically gifted highly trained athletes as the bar to compare to how everyone else should be measured.
You have claimed that your members are working out so intensely that masks were "dangerous". I was simply refuting that by showing that athletes that train MUCH more intensely regularly wear masks.

As I also pointed out, one such athlete WON the US National Championships while competing in a mask while others didn't, and those other athletes are also Olympians. ZERO negative effect, except that they are uncomfortable. Nobody likes wearing them. Nobody. But, if people will wear them, they will get used to them and stay much healthier.

Just because Galen Rupp runs sub 4 minute miles, sub 13 minute 5 k's, sub 1hour half marathons doesn't mean that everyone should be able to hit those times. But if he can train and race at thhat intensity while wearing a mask, then nobody has an excuse for not wearing a mask.

You have to decide if you are in the fitness industry and are there to make people healthier in all aspects of their lives, or if you are a used car salesman trying to trying to sell the next workout session. Without masks, you're just trying to sell your next training session instead of trying to keep them healthy.
A. Conditioned elite athletes can handle stresses less conditioned people cannot handle. I would argue that the mask can and will inhibit O2 intake especially in people that are not accustomed to working out on a regular basis. It's pretty simple. But since I really do not think masks are "saving" us from a virus we don't need to be saved from anyway, its a moot point to me. Which leads to my next point.

B. You're assuming we really need masks. We don't. My belief is that this virus doesn't at all warrant the level of caution and restrictions we are putting in place because of it. 99.997% survival rate. And of those the vast majority do not have long term effects. I, unfortunately, was for the shut down for 2 weeks so the hospitals could react. I now see that all we did was open Pandora's Box and are now left with people thinking that this is some extremely dangerous pathogen that is pushing mankind to the brink of extinction. Not even remotely close and honestly its time to get totally back to normal. There is no vaccine and that could take many years to develop. The next best thing is to let herd immunity take hold. Plus the numbers of cases that are said to be rising are questionable at best. Stub your toe? You have Covid! Bite your lip? You have Covid. I sneezed yesterday. Must be Covid. A lot of you have bought a bill of goods sold to us by the media (the real virus here). This virus has sucked. People have died. But, unless you're ok with masking up, cancelling events, social distancing etc for the next few years if not forever, the best thing is to let the thing spread. Masking isn't going to kill off the virus. Immunity will. The policies of hiding from the virus only put off the inevitable since a vaccine may take a long time to become an option.

C.
Quote:

You have to decide if you are in the fitness industry and are there to make people healthier in all aspects of their lives, or if you are a used car salesman trying to trying to sell the next workout session. Without masks, you're just trying to sell your next training session instead of trying to keep them healthy.

I am not at all in this for the money. It's a good thing b/c I don't make a lot yet and I give a hell of a lot away for free. I honestly see it as healthier not to wear a mask while training. So I am not sure where you are trying to go with this particular point. I truly feel one is safer without a mask. I do not care if you wear one to Kroger or Target or HEB. I do. I hate them and consider them unnecessary but the mandate (not law, remember that) asks me to so I do. I draw the line at training. It's a very small portion of the world and will not be a hotbed of outbreak, ever.

In the end, if this really were some horrible virus where 40% died like in the movie contagion for instance, of course I would be all for masking up, if masks actually work. Since we do not have concrete evidence obtained through scientific tests and metadata and controls, it's merely a hypothesis. And maybe they do! I'd be happy to know. But for Covid? Really? This is not a virus, to me, worthy of a mandate on something that might work.
TXTransplant
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Quote:

You have to decide if you are in the fitness industry and are there to make people healthier in all aspects of their lives, or if you are a used car salesman trying to trying to sell the next workout session. Without masks, you're just trying to sell your next training session instead of trying to keep them healthy.


Ok, I'm not even a fitness junkie, much less an elite athlete. I'm just a middle-aged gal trying to stave off weight gain and the other ill-effects of aging. It's hot as Hades, so I'd much rather go to my studio class at lunchtime than go outside and give myself a heat stroke.

With that said, I DO NOT expect my instructors to accept any responsibility for keeping me healthy by encouraging (or expecting) me to wear a mask. I've evaluated the risks. I'm taking precautions as best I can. Classes are kept small, and all equipment is disinfected multiple times a day. I would never go to class with even the slightest symptom, and I trust that the other people in class with me will do the same. The other people in class with me are accepting the same risk.

I've seen a couple of people in my classes wear a mask while working out, but the majority of us do not. I think if it were required, very few people would go to class (they'd probably continue doing the live-stream classes), which would hurt the business owners.

I wear a mask when I'm at the office and when I go to the grocery. But wearing a mask in an exercise class should be a personal choice. No one HAS to be there, and if you're that concerned about catching the virus, you should probably work out at home or outside. I certainly wouldn't want my instructor encouraging, pressuring, or guilting me into wearing a mask while I work out.

Implying that a fitness professional is just trying to sell their next workout session if they don't encourage or require masks is unfair and condescending/dismissive to those of us who can evaluate the risks and make a decision for ourselves.

The only issue I've had with my studio is that an instructor who taught a class where someone tested positive was allowed to continue teaching. I think that instructor should have been told not to teach for two weeks. But I don't own the studio, so it's not my decision. Instead, I opted to cancel class with that teacher.
AggieOO
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So instead of masking (pun intended) your question as a concern for masks in the gym, what it really boils down to is that you don't believe in masks at all. Which is a completely different argument that doesn't belong on this board.
Capitol Ag
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AggieOO said:

So instead of masking (pun intended) your question as a concern for masks in the gym, what it really boils down to is that you don't believe in masks at all. Which is a completely different argument that doesn't belong on this board.


No, I'm not the one who brought the "arguement" on the forum. The original post I did was to ask how we as gyms could get around a mandate that the majority of my members didn't want us to enforce and that my reasoning was I felt training while wearing a mask was dangerous. Honestly it was going great until a few seemed to have an issue that I would be asking about "getting around" the mandate. Which honestly wasn't their business but I explained why. Hey, they can respond and give their opinions. But if they do, so can I. I honestly just wanted to know if a person's gym was really enforcing this while a member worked out or if they were being loose with enforcement and not really trying to. And it looks like, from most replies before derailment, which I admit I was a part of, most gyms are really not enforcing the mandate very hard if at all.

Part of this also was the fact that the state wasn't the only mandate. A lot of cities had them too. It leads to confusion, especially when as a business you are trying to see what you are even expected to do in the first place. So, what were other gyms doing. How did they interpret what their role is regarding these mandates. What is the State and cities expecting the gyms to do, etc. Beyond the arguments, if you are a business owner, after all the shut downs and all the things going on, it's just another thing to have to deal with. But after rereading the mandate, speaking with other gym owners etc, it's not any businesses responsibility to enforce the mandate. It's the individual citizen's responsibility legally. They are the ones getting fined. At this point, there isn't a need for the thread other then to talk about gym policies and what experiences people have had. All of which are very interesting in and of themselves. I'm done arguing my points of the **** show we have created around the virus. I'm sure I'll be on another forum to argue with anyone who wants about the covid.
MavsAg
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Can someone explain to me why working out at a gym is one of the highest risk activities we can do? I get that if I'm next to someone and we're both breathing heavily then particles will be flying. But if I just go to my own spot of the gym, wipe down my equipment, and keep to myself, what is the harm?
AggieOO
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probably b/c it is a generalization. Someone doing what you are describing is probably pretty damn safe. But we all know that a lot of people don't do that. Plus, gym means, weight rooms, treadmills, group classes, locker rooms, orange theory, crossfit, spin classes, etc etc. Yes, some are being responsible. Others are anti-mask and don't give a crap. So that all adds up, at a high level to high risk...doesn't mean it is high risk across the board.
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