Health & Fitness
Sponsored by

The Game Changers

4,423 Views | 26 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by newhowdyag2004
Bob09
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Anyone else watched this? It is a doc on netflix about basically eating vegan. I am not vegan and will never go 100% vegan, but the first ~65 minutes of this have really sold me on treating meat like I treat desserts, something to have sparingly or as a cheat/treat. I can't recall posting on the H&F board before, but after watching this I thought I would see if anyone else on the board has seen it and/or has some first hand experience from cutting way back on eating meats and how it made them feel?
TwoMarksHand
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Propaganda.
CDub06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I don't have much to add. A xoworker went vegetarian and his wife went vegan and they reportedly feel better than they ever have. They're fairly active and are in good shape. They said the big change has been energy, especially in the afternoon.

I'm sure cutting down on meat (especially red meats) is beneficial to a point. I'm not motivated enough to ever try it.

Cam Newton went vegan during the offseason and his struggles with injury and recovery have been very well documented since. A lot of people are placing the blame on his new diet and specifically not getting enough protein: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article235295427.html
wbt5845
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I am giving plant based eating a one month trial run. So far, so good - although I struggled in the last two miles of an 8 mile run yesterday. It's a little difficult hitting my macros - I just have to try harder.
RG20
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It's amazing yet not surprising, what some people will create to make a profit by keeping you fat and unhealthy .
ptothemo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I didn't know that about Newton. It's just one case, but it's interesting to read nonetheless.
IJones23
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I went carnivore 3 months ago. I eat nothing but steaks, hamburger patties, eggs and bacon. I've lost 35 lbs and my psoriasis has cleared up. Meat isn't bad for you.
newhowdyag2004
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think during our evolution as a species, we were vegans and that really helped our brain development and get us to where we are at now. The fossil record shows when we started cutting out meat, the cranium size actually increased. We also evolved teeth which can rip apart fruits and vegetables (grazing animals will catch up one day) and get the essential vitamin B12 which is only found in fruits/vegetables and not meat/dairy.

<sarcasm>

Cut out sugar and refined carbs, and you'll be healthy. It's pretty simple and all these documentaries just confuse the average person.
AgEng06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
newhowdyag2004 said:

I think during our evolution as a species, we were vegans and that really helped our brain development and get us to where we are at now. The fossil record shows when we started cutting out meat, the cranium size actually increased. We also evolved teeth which can rip apart fruits and vegetables (grazing animals will catch up one day) and get the essential vitamin B12 which is only found in fruits/vegetables and not meat/dairy.

<sarcasm>

Cut out sugar and refined carbs, and you'll be healthy. It's pretty simple and all these documentaries just confuse the average person.
BullSprig07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG


My question on Cam specifically is does a vegan diet lead you to begin dressing like this?

AggieOO
How long do you want to ignore this user?
while i am not vegan and have no desire to be, i know a lot of normal, successful people/athletes that are.

some of the people are that vocally anti-vegan are worse than the vocal vegans.
GuitarAg08
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
James Cameron is one of the executive producers of "game changers". He also happens to own the largest organic pea protein manufacturing facility in North America...

chris1515
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I've always wondered how much of the benefits of going vegan are attributable to all the other things vegans give up in addition to meat. How many vegans still drink cokes? Eat cookies? They usually give up a lot more than just meat, yet any benefit gets attributed to cutting out the meat.
lazuras_dc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I just watched this today and found it to be pretty neutral on the subject while pointing out its flaws and strengths.



The gist is: some of the "evidence" they used in the movie was probably bogus or anecdotal. However switching to a diet with more whole plants is obv going to be beneficial... and there is such thing as vegan or plant based junk food with tons of refined carbs so don't get tricked into that line of thinking that just "non meat" means healthy.
aznaggiegirl07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Stttaaaahhhppp
P.U.T.U
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
As always follow the rich white guy with money. James Cameron have invested $140 million on plant based protein and then produces a film about how good plant protein is and bad animal protein is. This isn't a documentary it is an effort at marketing.

A peanut butter sandwich has the same amount of protein as an egg? Yeah a 1/4c of peanut butter on one sandwich that will be over 500 calories (not counting the bread). Who the heck is going to eat a sandwich with that much peanut butter? For the next 30 minutes you would look like a dog that just at some trying to get all of it out of your mouth. Or I can have a three egg omelet that will have around 20 grams of quality protein with more nutrients all for 180 calories.

Whey, eggs, and beef all have a near perfect protein quality around 100%, peas are around 80% meaning you have to eat a whole lot more pea protein than the others mentioned.

They say animal meat causes heart disease and diabetes...okay how? This is the correlation does not imply causation thing. They try to compare 3 NFL players; 1 a vegan and 2 who eat stuff like Popeyes. Yeah that is a good comparison. Plus the majority of Americans still eat a diet based off of the old food pyramid which is horrible for you. If you look at the heart disease and type 2 diabetes numbers of pre 1950 to today you will see a steady increase of both. In the 1950s we were eating eggs, meat, real butter, etc. and were healthier. We eat too many carbs now, especially processed high-sugar ones. Walk down the bread isle and pick out three things of random breads and you have a 95% chance of getting one with a ton of added sugar.

Eating meat causes erections not to last as long? I think they were just trying to re-up themselves on idiotic comments in this movie. Eating beef increases testosterone, eggs have zinc, now how is this bad for erections? Good lord these people are flat out lying to you
newhowdyag2004
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Chris Kresser, a former vegan and now into functional medicine, will be on Joe Rogan on 11/19 to discuss this documentary. He is huge into looking at all the meta data and showing how data is skewed because of other factors (yea you ate meat but also had a lot of refined carbs, etc and that's what is bad).

He's just an other guy, but I appreciate his insight because you attempts to look at all the research/data holistically.

I did also want to note some anecdotal info. I've been pretty clean with my diet for a few years now (meaning staying away from refined carbs and sugar and beer on the weekends only), but I went carnivore for 3 weeks to try it out. One thing I noticed is I have a gluten sensitivity (slight dry/itchy skin went away). The bigger thing is my mood improved significantly. I have a full time job, a side business, and wake up early to work out so I often get 5.5-6 hours of sleep. At night I get tired and cranky and always associated that with lack of sleep. However, on carnivore the crankiness went away (my wife could tell right away). I was shocked that being tired alone doesn't affect your mood but that food has a huge impact. What I should do is try whole vegan for 3 weeks to see if I get the same results.
BullSprig07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm a big fan of Chris Kresser. He's very well researched and not at all dogmatic in his approach. Diets are almost becoming tribal like so many other aspects of society and it's annoying.

I've been hesitant to even mention the carnivore diet on this thread because it probably sounds so absurd to some people but I've thought myself about trying it out and comparing bloodwork and other metrics before and after. I already eat a pretty high meat/protein/fat diet and my lipids, inflammation markers etc are near perfect. It's anecdotal but some folks that have major autoimmune issues have seen obvious benefits from going straight carnivore. I don't have those issues so would be more out of curiosity than anything.

If you don't want to wait for his new podcast on Rogan, below is another Rogan episode that was a debate between Kresser and Dr. Joel Kahn, who advocates a plant-based diet. They both do a pretty good job keeping their cool while outlining their viewpoints.

BullSprig07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Rogan's podcast with Kresser about GameChangers is up. I'm about halfway through it.

newhowdyag2004
How long do you want to ignore this user?
That was a great podcast. Chris posted 3 days:

"With all of the attention my recent podcast with @joerogan has been getting, I'm excited to let you know that I am headed back next week for a debate with James Wilks, producer of The Game Changers! Be sure to check back here for updates on when the podcast will be posted."
BullSprig07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AgLiving06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Anybody listen to the debate?

I'm an hour in and man is this an awkward debate.

James has come off just horribly aggressive and pretty wrong on basic logic.
AggieOO
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I have it downloaded, but haven't listened to it yet. After listening to the kresser one, I had a feeling that the debate wouldn't be pretty.
hph6203
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AgLiving06 said:

Anybody listen to the debate?

I'm an hour in and man is this an awkward debate.

James has come off just horribly aggressive and pretty wrong on basic logic.
He starts out bad and yeah he has some logical fallacies about the number of studies that pair dairy to cancer, but overall he kicks the ever living crap out of Kresser. They both come off stupid though, because they fundamentally agree that at the very least you shouldn't eat like crap if you want to be healthy.
.
BullSprig07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I listened and agree it was painful to get through. James went directly after Chris, his original "debunks" and even his credibility and Chris did not come off looking great.

That being said nothing in that almost 4 hour podcast gave me any hesitation about eating meat. I learned that peanut butter sandwiches and lentils have more protein than I thought. That's super. I'll keep eating meat though.

I'm a big fan of Joe and he does a lot of things well but I don't think debate formats suits him. Both sides accused eachother of cherry picking evidence and both sides were right.
FIDO*98*
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
In 2017 I was over 40lbs overweight and in constant pain. I committed to making some changes. I tried doing things like paleo, keto, etc. and initially lost 10-15lbs or so, but, plateaued after about 2 months despite increased running mileage. I couldn't run consecutive days and eventually hurt my back 3 months in. I went to Airrosti, Doctor put me on muscle relaxers and something else after doing x-Rays and diagnosing me with inflammation. I ended up dropping out of a half-marathon before I even started due to back pain. I got desperate enough to do something crazy so inspired by Rich Roll and Josh Lajaunie I decided to try a whole-food, plant-based Vegan diet.

Within a week I was out of pain and back to running. PRd a 10K 2 weeks later. I stuck with it for about 6 months and lost over 30 additional lbs. I did resume eating meat like the OP suggested and now eat it occasionally and sparingly, but, continue to eat primarily plants. Finished my 2nd full Marathon last Sunday with a 10-day pure Vegan run-in.

I don't think my diet is going to save the world. I am an outdoorsman and kill plenty of fish, my boys hunt so this is not an ethical thing.

My thoughts are simple. If you are interested, try it for a few weeks and see what happens, but, fully commit to not cheating. See how you feel. It's laughable to hear people who have never gone an extended period of time without consuming animal products to tell me why a Vegan diet is less healthy than a Keto, Carnivore, etc. diet. I do agree the most important aspect is whole-food, plant-based part of the equation. The Vegan meat substitutes and junk food that's available for the Eco/Ethical Vegan isn't much better than the SAD.
BullSprig07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
A unicorn in our midst! The rare logical vegan!

J/k, thanks for sharing. I think that demonstrates how much genetic variability plays a roll in this too as I have a similar story but with a largely animal food based diet and it works for me.
newhowdyag2004
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I was sad to listen to the podcast. I like Chris but he got exposed and lost a lot of credibility with me. He didn't stand up for himself and just got completely destroyed.

I will always eat meat along with vegetables and fruit and limit alcohol and crap food. I haven't tried vegan, but may one day because I do like to experiment. I tried carnivore for 3 weeks and felt great on that (mood improved, stomach felt great). I should try vegan and see how I feel versus how I did with carnivore. One reason I am reticent is because I wouldn't want some annoying vegans at work to find out and get that smug look from them (like my obese vegan boss).
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.