I have bounced around 200-210 for the better part of a year. 57 years old - does CG 6 days a week and runs 4 days a week about 20 miles total.

My trainer suggested giving plant based a whirl to see if it helps. I gave it a day or two a few times over the last few weeks as test runs and felt fine. So today I'm trying it full throttle.

Anyone else do it? I had to rework my macros to 20% P / 60% C / 20% F on 2200 calories per day. Am open to lowering calories but I've lost weight on.that caloric intake previously. Seems hard to get the protein in without resorting to gimmick foods.

I went completely plant based for about four months back in late 2017. I didn't really make a conscious decision to do it, and it just kind of happened over a period of time. Overall, I struggled to get enough protein and struggled with feeling relatively strong because of that. I also found myself eating some not great foods just because they were vegetarian and filled calorie needs.

The thing that it did really help me with is concentrating on eating a ton of fruits and vegetables. Once I moved away from the plant based diet, the meat that I added back in was way more lean and far more intentional than before I went all plant based. I continued to eat all the fruits and veggies along with that and got to a much better place from both a macro, body comp, and performance perspective.

I don't think that I will go back 100% plant based, but I'm happy that I did it before as a hard stop on my old, really crappy diet and transition into a better one that I've maintained since.

What kind of workout regimen were you on at the time?

Meant to include that before, I was basically only running at the time. Very little strength or cross training - definitely nothing I would call a regimen.

I did 100% vegetarian for over a year a while back.

All-in-all it was easy enough.

I wasn't healthier at the end of the year - but that wasn't necessarily the diet's fault. I did pretty much no exercise during that time (not unusual at that point in my life) and the majority of my weight loss from muscle mass.

Just watched Game Changers on Netflix about this. Pretty convincing. Some good points but I think a good balance between animal and plant protein is where I'm at now.

I would love to hear some counter points to The Game Changers documentary. It is clearly a biased assault on meat, but I agree it was very convincing.

P.U.T.U said:

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Now go watch a documentary on the carnivore diet, keto, paleo, etc. and you will see each one can spin the facts to prove that their diet is the best.

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Don't forget IF. Not as much of a diet as scheduling, but I watched one on the topic. It's the fountain of youth and everlasting health. (Not knocking IF, just agreeing that each documentary does a pretty convincing job.)

P.U.T.U said:

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If you do not work out hard or have to do anything physical for your job you can easily do it with some supplementation to make up for some of the nutrients you are missing.

I know a few people that have stuck with vegetarian and everyone I know that has gone vegan has gotten off of it. Most of the vegetarians I know say they do it for ethical reason (which is fine) but end up with more body fat than before. Plus with modern farming techniques they are killing tons of animals harvesting the food so it is not exactly more ethical.

Now go watch a documentary on the carnivore diet, keto, paleo, etc. and you will see each one can spin the facts to prove that their diet is the best. I have teeth that can grab, grind, and canine teeth so I am going to get a mix of foods. Eat lots of vegetables, some fruit and meat, and throw in carbs when you deserve them.

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I'm not married to one diet but I always sort of giggle at the BuT My TeeTh people. As if a tooth can't multitask

culdeus said:

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P.U.T.U said:

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If you do not work out hard or have to do anything physical for your job you can easily do it with some supplementation to make up for some of the nutrients you are missing.

I know a few people that have stuck with vegetarian and everyone I know that has gone vegan has gotten off of it. Most of the vegetarians I know say they do it for ethical reason (which is fine) but end up with more body fat than before. Plus with modern farming techniques they are killing tons of animals harvesting the food so it is not exactly more ethical.

Now go watch a documentary on the carnivore diet, keto, paleo, etc. and you will see each one can spin the facts to prove that their diet is the best. I have teeth that can grab, grind, and canine teeth so I am going to get a mix of foods. Eat lots of vegetables, some fruit and meat, and throw in carbs when you deserve them.

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I'm not married to one diet but I always sort of giggle at the BuT My TeeTh people. As if a tooth can't multitask

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weird that this is the reaction. Put different types of foods in your mouth. Your tongue and mouth muscles will instinctively position that food in a specific location to break apart prior to swallowing. Our human teeth are very different front to back for a reason.

P.U.T.U said:

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If you do not work out hard or have to do anything physical for your job you can easily do it with some supplementation to make up for some of the nutrients you are missing.

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I work out vigorously at least an hour a day - longer on days of hard runs. On my 8 mile run Sunday, my pace fell WAY off in Mile 7. I'm only about 2 weeks in at this point - promised I'd give it a month. Weight has held stable.

The biggest problem for me is I try to follow the Obesity Code eating rules. With just whole foods, it's hard ot hit protein macros without supplements.

I don't have any ethical reasons for trying this - just a trainers recommendation.

At your age and activity level I would give that trainer a kick in the nuts/ovaries recommending that little protein and that much carbs. The older you get the slower your metabolism gets and the harder to gain muscle meaning you need more protein and less carbs.

Most of the current research shows at your age fasting for 12-16 hours a day (or coffee with MCT oil in the morning), low carb lunch, balanced dinner to resupply your glycogen store, and maybe a snack in there. By eating meat it is relatively easy to get the protein required and stay full. Eating 60% would have me snacking all day and sleeping horrible at night.

I have done triathlons (sprint up to full Ironman) weighing 165 pounds and am now 205-210 doing a diet similar to this and feel my best. By eating low carb I seem to concentrate better and sleep better when I have a meal with more carbs at night.

Most diets take at least 30 days for your body to adjust. You also have to think about most people plateau in their diets since they have been eating whatever and then cut calories on a diet. When they stop losing weight they get frustrated and quit.

Yeah, FWIW - it was kind of my idea to try as well. Been stuck at 205 for months and wanted to try something different. Figured it couldn't hurt. It may not be a good idea

I start ramping up for The Cowtown in December and will give it until then.

Ragoo said:

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culdeus said:

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P.U.T.U said:

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If you do not work out hard or have to do anything physical for your job you can easily do it with some supplementation to make up for some of the nutrients you are missing.

I know a few people that have stuck with vegetarian and everyone I know that has gone vegan has gotten off of it. Most of the vegetarians I know say they do it for ethical reason (which is fine) but end up with more body fat than before. Plus with modern farming techniques they are killing tons of animals harvesting the food so it is not exactly more ethical.

Now go watch a documentary on the carnivore diet, keto, paleo, etc. and you will see each one can spin the facts to prove that their diet is the best. I have teeth that can grab, grind, and canine teeth so I am going to get a mix of foods. Eat lots of vegetables, some fruit and meat, and throw in carbs when you deserve them.

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I'm not married to one diet but I always sort of giggle at the BuT My TeeTh people. As if a tooth can't multitask

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weird that this is the reaction. Put different types of foods in your mouth. Your tongue and mouth muscles will instinctively position that food in a specific location to break apart prior to swallowing. Our human teeth are very different front to back for a reason.

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Again, because one thing is true, doesn't mean another thing is also true. I'm surprised to still run across it.

Whether or not we evolved to have teeth with different purposes does not invalidate peoples dietary choices. It's a silly sidebar that distracts from actual science that sets out to measure these things, with science.

Here's a recent meta study that tries to go so far as to look at people's food sources. It seems to sum up a lot of the recent evidence that is stacking against not just all meat, but red meat in particular while indicating animal protein consumption of other types are generally not-harmful.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30971126/?i=3

Regardless of what people think about this topic, there is enough out there to say that if you are to cut one animal source back first, it would be processed meat of any kind, then red meat second. Incidentally that's the way this country has been headed for awhile. Red meat consumption is down sharply.

My dinner tried it. It didnt work out well for it.

culdeus said:

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Red meat consumption is down sharply.

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Which, while epidemiological, would lead me to believe that red meat is NOT the problem. Considering people continue to get fatter and sicker and more diabetic every year.

What is so bad about red meat as long as you live an active lifestyle?

Eating plants as the source of your caloric intake isn't going to substantially change your ability to lose weight if your caloric intake/macros are the same. Drop some of your aerobic exercises and lift weights, Camp Gladiator seems like aerobic exercise on top of all the running you're doing.

wbt5845 said:

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P.U.T.U said:

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If you do not work out hard or have to do anything physical for your job you can easily do it with some supplementation to make up for some of the nutrients you are missing.

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I work out vigorously at least an hour a day - longer on days of hard runs. On my 8 mile run Sunday, my pace fell WAY off in Mile 7. I'm only about 2 weeks in at this point - promised I'd give it a month. Weight has held stable.

The biggest problem for me is I try to follow the Obesity Code eating rules. With just whole foods, it's hard ot hit protein macros without supplements.

I don't have any ethical reasons for trying this - just a trainers recommendation.

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I may be completely wrong here, but I find it hard to believe that your new diet has anything to do with this, unless you're getting absolutely no nutrients. For an 8 mile run, you only need roughly 800 calories of glycogen, most people have around 2000. Is it possible this was mental, just a bad day, or lack of hydration/electrolytes.

FWIW, I'm not on a plant based diet nor do I have any desire to be on one, I just don't know if you can say you don't have enough energy for an 8 mile run because of that....

Yeah, his 8-mile run was also on Sunday, immediately after DST ended. I'd say being tired was probably a larger influence than the diet.

PineTreeAg said:

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I would love to hear some counter points to The Game Changers documentary. It is clearly a biased assault on meat, but I agree it was very convincing.

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I just watched it a couple of days ago. Any documentary can be very convincing when they don't allow for opposing arguments. While I agree that it is the best thing to do to eat as many fruits and vegetables as you can, I basically took the documentary as stating you either eat all plant-based... or you'll develop cancer and die. I'm all for hearing research and opinions that challenge the way I think, but this one presented zero evidence from the opposing viewpoint.

I just had to roll my eyes at all the attempts to stick it to the male audience. Using NFL players, strongmen, boxers, MMA fighters, a special forces operative, Arnold Schwarttzenager, erection tests..... all the attempts to convince men that's its the manly thing to do.

PineTreeAg said:

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I would love to hear some counter points to The Game Changers documentary. It is clearly a biased assault on meat, but I agree it was very convincing.

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This Podcast does a decent job with counter points. Neither of these guys are zealots for the extreme opposite (carnivore) or really even anti-vegan so for that reason I think it is a good source if you are looking for unbiased counterarguments. They both mention training and working with vegans but also do a good job pointing out some of the slight of hand tricks in the film that makes it so convincing.

They don't get to the Gamechangers discussion until about 44 minutes.

It's done by James Cameron, of course it is going to be good, of course it is going to be convincing. He's one of the greatest film makers on the planet. He also has a HUGE investment in these beyond/impossible meat alternatives and stands to personally gain from seeing them succeed. I feel like that is worth mentioning.

The funny thing about using those athletes is that several of them have become injured/sidelined between production and release of the film.

Wife and I started our plant based diet almost two weeks ago. We cook a lot; so processed food-based meals were already rare so you could argue we have been on a 'whole food' diet and now we are just cutting meat and scaling way down on dairy. So far meals have been much easier than when we did the Whole30 diet a couple years ago; which was a beast of a dietary plan to cook for; so much chopping.

We watched What the Health? (Prime maybe?) which was educational but also really one sided; so one sided I didn't believe it BUT it led me to read articles and research on my own. Game Changer is what tipped me over the edge to switch to a plant based diet.

Only difference so far is I have been taking 3-4 dumps a day and my skin feels smoother.

Food-wise biggest win has been discovering that pan fried tofu chunks seasoned with lemon juice and sriracha are awesome. Used them in a tikka masala and couldn't get enough.

Where do you get your recipes? Just browse online?

PineTreeAg said:

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I would love to hear some counter points to The Game Changers documentary. It is clearly a biased assault on meat, but I agree it was very convincing.

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Here you go, challenge to game changers

PineTreeAg said:

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I would love to hear some counter points to The Game Changers documentary. It is clearly a biased assault on meat, but I agree it was very convincing.

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the very first name listed as a producer is James Cameron. Of course it is slanted.

I eat a plant-based diet, but my plants sometimes make a stop as part of a cow along the way.

Water Turkey07 said:

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culdeus said:

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Red meat consumption is down sharply.

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Which, while epidemiological, would lead me to believe that red meat is NOT the problem. Considering people continue to get fatter and sicker and more diabetic every year.

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This is a recent phenomenon. I'll get a graph up.

P.U.T.U said:

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PineTreeAg said:

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I would love to hear some counter points to The Game Changers documentary. It is clearly a biased assault on meat, but I agree it was very convincing.

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Here you go, challenge to game changers

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From that article this line sums up my feelings " "If a plant-based diet is so great, why does it come up short on so many nutrients?"

Forks over Knives website is a good source, a couple have come off the back of noodle boxes. Forks over Knives has a subscription service with meal planners that give you a grocery list which is nice but haven't done that yet.