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4,600 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Woods Ag
LEJ
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I've been mountain hunting for several years and it's apparent that my weakest link has always been, and likely will always be, fitness. I live at 2400 ft. The trail head I use is at 8500ft. I hunted above treeline at 12000+ last year and will again this year, starting in late August. I hike in with a 50# pack 8 miles to my base camp and hunt out of that location for a week or more. This year, I'll be there for the entire season... 30 days. Plan to hike out a time or two to resupply.

As usual, I'm behind the curve, relatively speaking, but ahead of where I'd normally be at this point.

I just discovered this program

https://mtntough.com

and I'm interested in opinions. I'm going to download the MTNTOUGH Heavy Pack Workout from the site (which I haven't even looked at yet) and I plan to try the "The 22's" Challenge in a few weeks.

I'm basically just interested in opinions anyone has on this type of training and on this specific program. Also interested to hear any guesses on possible individual times.

I'm also interested in any advice for dealing with the high altitude, mountain environment, both physical and chemical. This ain't my first rodeo, but I'm not a crossfit workout type either.



RockOn
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I'm not familiar with that website or group.

I run Ultras and do a bit alpine climbing (1-2 trips a year),but never with a 50 lb pack.

I would suggest looking in to the alpine/mountaineering plans from uphillathlete.com or the specific plans mtntactical.com.

From the uphillathlete.com guys - Steve House (look him up) has a book called Training for the New Alpinism. It covers a lot of different sports of the mountains and would be well worth your time to read.
LEJ
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cut and pasted from an OB thread...

"The 22's" is his training regimen which is meant to be sort of a test of your current "mountain fitness level".

The 22's - This is a timed test... object is to finish as fast as you can.

1.) 1/2 mile sprint

2.) 20 lunge jumps followed by 2 push ups... then
18-4 (lunge jumps, then push ups, till you work your way down to 2 lunge jumps and 20 push ups)
16-6
14-8
12-10
10-12
8-14
6-16
4-18
2-20

3.) 2nd 1/2 mile sprint

4.) 20 squat jumps followed by 2 renegade rows (had to look this one up)
18-4 (squat jumps, then renegade rows, till you work your way down the ladder again)
16-6
14-8
12-10
10-12
8-14
6-16
4-18
2-20

(Note: on renegade rows, beginner can use NO weights / advanced - 20# dumb bells)

5.) 3rd 1/2 mile sprint

Finish time categories...

< 25 minutes - ELITE
25-30 minutes - a badass, but a little room to improve
30-40 minutes - ?
40-50minutes - ?
LEJ
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So here's the Heavy Pack Workout this dude recommends.

I'm going to ease into this today with a 35# pack, no dumbbells, and no sense of urgency. I will probably regret this tomorrow.

1.) 2-MILE'S OF INTERVALS This workout starts with 2 x 400m, 2 x 800m and then 2 more x 400m track sprints. These hurt, but intervals are one of the best ways to boost your cardiovascular fitness. They also test your mental fitness which is crucial for successful backcountry hunting. Many hunters hate running sprints, but they need to be doing them. Sprint intervals will develop your ability to breathe and recover quickly...such as after a steep pursuit when you need to steady yourself for the shot. DIRECTIONS Run 400m as fast as you can (1 lap around the track), time yourself, rest the same amount of time it took you to finish, then head out for 400m sprint number 2. Repeat this 1:1 work to rest ratio for each interval. 1 2 "One of the goals of interval work is to push your cardio vascular system and in order to do that it's important that you run at a hard but consistent pace. A good rule of thumb is to run hard enough that you can't talk at all during the interval (because you're breathing too hard) but steady enough that you can run each interval at the same split (so if it takes you 90 seconds to run 400m then every 400m will finish in 90 seconds including during your 800m intervals). You'll know you're doing them right if each interval get's harder to run yet your pace stays the same. That means your body is being pushed." Ara Megerdichian, retired Army Ranger Lieutenant and United States Military Academy Physical Education Instructor

2.) 200 METERS OF WEIGHTED LUNGES In hunting, the work begins when the animal is down, this workout is no different. You finished your sprints now it is time to go to work. Throw on your pack with the 60lb sandbag strapped in tight. Grab your set of 20lb dumbbells and head back out on the track. 200 meters of lunges with a 60lb pack is brutal, add the 20lb dumbbells in each hand and it is a physical and psychological beast. This workout will boost your work capacity, strengthen your quads, glutes, and hamstrings...plus condition your body to operate under a heavy load. The dumbbells in each hand train your grip, arms, and traps for carrying bows, rifles, cameras, tripods, etc... DIRECTIONS Strap your #60lb sandbag onto your pack. Grab a 20lb dumbbell in each hand. Lunge 200m. Head out 100m and then back (1/4 lap of your track). Carry the dumbbells with straight arms at your sides. Keep your chest and eyes up and focus on a long stride.

3.) 10 MINUTES OF WEIGHTED STAIR CLIMBS Any hunt in the Rocky Mountain West or Alaska is going to include lots of vertical gains & loss. Might as well get used to it now. After you finish your lunges keep your pack on and dumbbells in hand and head to the bleachers. You have 10 minutes of stair climbing. Set a timer for 10 minutes, get your mind right and go to work. Start at the bottom of the bleachers, head to the top, descend and repeat. Focus on the downhill, this requires a lot more than the uphill step as your body has to absorb the impact. Take your time and focus on good form, not laps. This is an ass-kicker, your legs, traps, arms, core, and shoulders are already burning from the lunges but you have to keep moving. Stay focused, and finish, packing out an animal can require multiple days, you just have to make it 10 minutes. DIRECTIONS Go immediately from your lunges to the bleachers, do not remove your pack, keep your dumbbells. Set a timer or check your watch. Go up and down the stairs for 10 minutes with no rest

4.) 30-SECOND PACK PLANKS Core strength helps with everything...backcountry hunting is no different. Hiking with heavy packs can become significantly easier as you strengthen your core and low back. Keep your pack on after your stair climb. Don't take it off, we are trying to accustom our bodies to working under load for extended periods of time. Drop your dumbbells, head to the grass and get ready to plank. Holding a 30-second plank with a 60lb pack is no joke...if you can't complete 30 seconds work your way up to it over time. DIRECTIONS Set a timer or monitor your watch for 30-second rest to work intervals. Keep your 60lb pack on and get in plank position. Complete three rounds of 30-second plank holds with 30 seconds of rest. Watch your form and make sure your shoulder stays directly above your elbow. Make sure your back is flat and not rounded or pointed up. Goal time for the entire workout is 1-hour. Try to complete the circuit faster each week. Enjoy yourself.



TwoMarksHand
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AG
I downloaded that workout yesterday as well. Looks pretty tough.
AgEng06
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AG
The guys at Exo have had this guy from Atomic Athlete on a few times to talk about his "mountain-ready" training program. There is also a free program download at the link...

https://exomountaingear.com/train/

I haven't tried any of this yet, however.
LEJ
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Dustin Diefenderfer is the founder of Mtn Tough. Heard him on one of the recent Rich Outdoors podcasts.
LEJ
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LEJ said:

So here's the Heavy Pack Workout this dude recommends.

I'm going to ease into this today with a 35# pack, no dumbbells, and no sense of urgency. I will probably regret this tomorrow.

1.) 2-MILE'S OF INTERVALS This workout starts with 2 x 400m, 2 x 800m and then 2 more x 400m track sprints. These hurt, but intervals are one of the best ways to boost your cardiovascular fitness. They also test your mental fitness which is crucial for successful backcountry hunting. Many hunters hate running sprints, but they need to be doing them. Sprint intervals will develop your ability to breathe and recover quickly...such as after a steep pursuit when you need to steady yourself for the shot. DIRECTIONS Run 400m as fast as you can (1 lap around the track), time yourself, rest the same amount of time it took you to finish, then head out for 400m sprint number 2. Repeat this 1:1 work to rest ratio for each interval. 1 2 "One of the goals of interval work is to push your cardio vascular system and in order to do that it's important that you run at a hard but consistent pace. A good rule of thumb is to run hard enough that you can't talk at all during the interval (because you're breathing too hard) but steady enough that you can run each interval at the same split (so if it takes you 90 seconds to run 400m then every 400m will finish in 90 seconds including during your 800m intervals). You'll know you're doing them right if each interval get's harder to run yet your pace stays the same. That means your body is being pushed." Ara Megerdichian, retired Army Ranger Lieutenant and United States Military Academy Physical Education Instructor

2.) 200 METERS OF WEIGHTED LUNGES In hunting, the work begins when the animal is down, this workout is no different. You finished your sprints now it is time to go to work. Throw on your pack with the 60lb sandbag strapped in tight. Grab your set of 20lb dumbbells and head back out on the track. 200 meters of lunges with a 60lb pack is brutal, add the 20lb dumbbells in each hand and it is a physical and psychological beast. This workout will boost your work capacity, strengthen your quads, glutes, and hamstrings...plus condition your body to operate under a heavy load. The dumbbells in each hand train your grip, arms, and traps for carrying bows, rifles, cameras, tripods, etc... DIRECTIONS Strap your #60lb sandbag onto your pack. Grab a 20lb dumbbell in each hand. Lunge 200m. Head out 100m and then back (1/4 lap of your track). Carry the dumbbells with straight arms at your sides. Keep your chest and eyes up and focus on a long stride.

3.) 10 MINUTES OF WEIGHTED STAIR CLIMBS Any hunt in the Rocky Mountain West or Alaska is going to include lots of vertical gains & loss. Might as well get used to it now. After you finish your lunges keep your pack on and dumbbells in hand and head to the bleachers. You have 10 minutes of stair climbing. Set a timer for 10 minutes, get your mind right and go to work. Start at the bottom of the bleachers, head to the top, descend and repeat. Focus on the downhill, this requires a lot more than the uphill step as your body has to absorb the impact. Take your time and focus on good form, not laps. This is an ass-kicker, your legs, traps, arms, core, and shoulders are already burning from the lunges but you have to keep moving. Stay focused, and finish, packing out an animal can require multiple days, you just have to make it 10 minutes. DIRECTIONS Go immediately from your lunges to the bleachers, do not remove your pack, keep your dumbbells. Set a timer or check your watch. Go up and down the stairs for 10 minutes with no rest

4.) 30-SECOND PACK PLANKS Core strength helps with everything...backcountry hunting is no different. Hiking with heavy packs can become significantly easier as you strengthen your core and low back. Keep your pack on after your stair climb. Don't take it off, we are trying to accustom our bodies to working under load for extended periods of time. Drop your dumbbells, head to the grass and get ready to plank. Holding a 30-second plank with a 60lb pack is no joke...if you can't complete 30 seconds work your way up to it over time. DIRECTIONS Set a timer or monitor your watch for 30-second rest to work intervals. Keep your 60lb pack on and get in plank position. Complete three rounds of 30-second plank holds with 30 seconds of rest. Watch your form and make sure your shoulder stays directly above your elbow. Make sure your back is flat and not rounded or pointed up. Goal time for the entire workout is 1-hour. Try to complete the circuit faster each week. Enjoy yourself.






That sucked
LEJ
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I did my revised version of this workout in 1hr4mins. The lunges took me 14 mins. Lots of cramping up but powered through it. The sprinting part wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Lunges are brutal. I don't see any scenario in which I'll ever even attempt to do those with a 60# pack and 20# dumb bells. The 10 minutes of steps aren't terrible... just lots of fatigue. The planking is pretty much just mental.

I hurt right now but not as bad as I had imagined. The crazy part is that I showered and hit the pillow at 11 PM. Alarm always set for 6am. I woke up at 3 thinking it was time to go. Nope. Get some more sleep. Woke up at 4 and again at 5, ready to go. 3-6 seemed like it took forever.

My overall health has improved dramatically over the last month of eating pretty damn healthy and working into a more rigorous exercise program. I wasn't in "bad shape" to begin with, but I've lost 10# in 3 weeks.
Aggietaco
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AG
Sounds like a good program based on that first workout. At first I thought he was telling you to do sprints with a 60# pack on and assumed the rest would be garbage, but sprints followed by that ridiculous amount of lunges and then stairs sounds like a good combo.

Weighted lunges suck, and you may have trouble getting off the pot today, but they are great at strengthening the backside for hill climbs.
claym711
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AG
Get a weight vest and hit the stair master
LEJ
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Aggietaco said:

Sounds like a good program based on that first workout. At first I thought he was telling you to do sprints with a 60# pack on and assumed the rest would be garbage, but sprints followed by that ridiculous amount of lunges and then stairs sounds like a good combo.

Weighted lunges suck, and you may have trouble getting off the pot today, but they are great at strengthening the backside for hill climbs.
Yeah, the thing is... I'm not really on a "program". This "Heavy Pack Workout" is just a free workout I pulled off the mountain tough website. There is a 90 day program (for $300) but I'm currently 60 days out from elk season and already spending to much time and money on other items to even consider that.
LEJ
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claym711 said:

Get a weight vest and hit the stair master
I've already got a backpack and lots of free sand. There's probably not a stair master within 50 miles me.
bb88
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As a guy who hikes for a living the best thing you can do is get out and hike with weight. No other workout comes close to throwing the weight on and going up and down. If you live somewhere that you can actually find a good pull and do it. People get all wrapped up in other workouts but as someone who hikes up and down mountains 300 days a year, To me that's your best bet. It's a hard workout to mimick by doing other things.
LEJ
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Oh I've been one with the weighted pack for a while now. Just loaded up my new Stone Glacier with 40# and made the local high school stadium bleachers my btch. Gonna start really cranking up the weight over the next 30 days.
AtlAg75
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AG
I can't help you with the conditioning of legs and muscles but you should check out a guy named Wim Hof. He has a breathing method that is primarily focused on improving and sustaining ones overall health but it has proven to be a great method to acclimating to high altitudes. He climbed Kilimanjaro in 28 hours and used his breathing technique to allow him to essentially climb with little rest or stoppage.

Google wim hof method. Will help with maximizing oxygen in your body and with endurance.

Living in the mountains for a month sounds awesome, have a great time.
P.U.T.U
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AG
You are hunting, you know the weight and what you will be facing. Standard workouts like squats, deadlifts, farmers carry, etc. will give you a good base. Do some sprints to get the heart rate up and try to stabilize your heart rate. Find mountains/hills and ruck them, do not forget to go down hill as most people get their quads torn up since they only focus on uphill.

Depending on your base doing those workouts 60 days out may smoke you more than it will help you. Keep it simple
AggieChemist
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AG
Not much to add other than once I started crossfit, hunting in the Appalachians became cake. Packing a deer out of a deep holler isn't that much work anymore.
LEJ
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Quote:

I can't help you with the conditioning of legs and muscles but you should check out a guy named Wim Hof. He has a breathing method that is primarily focused on improving and sustaining ones overall health but it has proven to be a great method to acclimating to high altitudes.
I will check this out. Many thanks.
LEJ
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P.U.T.U said:

You are hunting, you know the weight and what you will be facing. Standard workouts like squats, deadlifts, farmers carry, etc. will give you a good base. Do some sprints to get the heart rate up and try to stabilize your heart rate. Find mountains/hills and ruck them, do not forget to go down hill as most people get their quads torn up since they only focus on uphill.

Depending on your base doing those workouts 60 days out may smoke you more than it will help you. Keep it simple
I am currently in the best shape I've ever been in before heading into the backcountry for a mountain hunt, so your last comment struck a chord with me. Appreciate the perspective.
LEJ
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Bumped up the pack weight to 48# and lately I've been doing a half version of the Heavy Pack Workout on a pretty regular basis, along with some other low impact cardio. I'd drive with my pack on if I could figure out how to make it work.
Whaler
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AG
LEJ and you others are doing some awesome training. I'm curious about your approximate ages and your physical measurables, LOL. I'm about to go to Colorado and I wish I saw this thread months ago. Compared to my friends, I'm in good shape, but I can't imagine at 59 yrs, 6', 185 lbs. being able to carry 60 lbs like that... If you guys are in your 50s, I feel like crap! We won't be doing anything that strenuous, eventhough I wish I could. Congrats on your training, that's impressive.
LEJ
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Quote:

but I can't imagine at 59 yrs, 6', 185 lbs. being able to carry 60 lbs like that..
What I've actually given a lot of thought to lately is how I can still backpack hunt for elk in the mountains in 20 years or more. I'm 44 now. What I've come to realize is that if I keep doing what I'm currently doing, I'll be able to swing it. That seems pretty simple.

For the record, I'm not using a 60# pack right now. I've recently bumped up from an initial starting point of 35, to 40 and now 48#. I'll jack that up to 60+ over the next 30 days, and then I'm off to Colorado for a month+. In all fairness, I also just upgraded my pack from a Kelty Redcloud 90 Liter to a Stone Glacier Evo 40/56 (92 liters at max capacity). There's simply no comparison. It's the next best thing to a time machine.
Presley OBannons Sword
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Did the 22s this morning. Ouch.
LEJ
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Half+ of the heavy pack workout last night

1/4 mile sprint
1/2 mile sprint
1/4 mile sprint

100 lunges with 48# pack

7 minutes of bleachers with 48# pack

2 sets of 30 sec long planks with 48# pack

I realize I'm the one who brought this whole 22's deal to the table but I've decided to take a pass, for now. I'm already in the best shape of my (mountain hunting) life. I'm not willing to risk injury or days of extreme soreness with only less than a month before my departure.

Woods Ag
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AG
Finally did this workout this morning and finished in 24:19.

I did have a few beers and some wings last night to fuel my efforts.
Geriatric Punk
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AG
claym711 said:

Get a weight vest and hit the stair master
I was going to suggest something similar.

When I lived near mountains, I was an avid hiker. Snow, weather, etc., often prevented us from getting out on actual trails. When I wanted to maintain my mountain fitness as best I could, I would take the stairs with weight in my pack. My office building was 26 floors. Up and down that twice a few times a week seemed to keep my lungs from burning and kept me legs/back strong.

Simple solutions are usually the best because they are the easiest to maintain on a regular basis. You are more likely to go crush stairs for 30 minutes a few times a week than do intervals/calisthenics/etc at high intensity several times a week. Just my philosophy.

Life's an endless party, not a pushcart.
amanda04
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AG
I'll also add that a treadmill on an incline does not equal stairs or stair substitutes. I trained for hiking a mountain this summer (no hunting but enough gear for an overnight hike) and found that box stepups at 18" (I'm 5'10") closest replicated movement for the inclines at which I was hiking. I originally thought a treadmill with an incline would be a suitable replacement but while I was hiking I found myself thinking, "My trainer wasn't totally crazy when he told me to do box stepups because this feels exactly like it!"

Edit to add: I trained with a 20 po20-pound but wish I would have trained with a backpack with weights inside to have the same feeling of weight distribution as you do when hiking.
Woods Ag
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AG
Pulling a weighted sled with the ropes strapped to your shouldersis the thing I found most like carrying a pack.

walk with it .25 mile at a time, jog a .25 mile (weightless), and repeat about 5-10 times.. you'll be good
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