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*** OFFICIAL SWIMMING THREAD (SWIMMERS / TRIATHLETES) ***

4,521 Views | 47 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by AgFB
JDL 96
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Here's a thread for discussion of all things swimming. Swimming, triathlon swimming, masters swimming, college swimming, open water swimming, training, etc.

What are your swimming goals this year? What's on the swimming agenda? What are the challenges? What are your favorite things (or not so favorite things) about swimming?

Swimmers discuss ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ABOUT SWIMMING!!

JDL 96
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I'll start.
I don't think I swim hard enough. I.e. I don't think I swim nearly as hard as I run. My best 2017 half marathon was a 7:19 pace. My 2017 IM 70.3 swim time WITH A WETSUIT - was 42:06 a 2:11/100M pace. I did a 1:44 100M (long course) at a swim meet in 2016. I recently did 300 yards (short course) in a practice in ~6:15. That was a record.

I swim in the 2nd slowest or slow lane at masters swim practice. Almost everyone (or everyone) my age (I'm 43) are in faster lanes.

It seems like I should be able to do 5 x 100 on 2:00 "easily" in practice. The question is what level of effort (on 1-10 scale?) should I be swimming to do 5 x 100 on 2:00? What level of effort are the peeps in the fast lanes swimming? Do they feel like they are going to die for half the set? All the set? None of the set?

I felt like I was going to die after my 1:44 100. That was 2 years ago, and I'm faster now. But I don't think I'm swimming hard enough, and don't think I've found my "pace".

Any suggestions? Just suck it up and swim harder? I keep trying to psyche myself up mentally but don't have much success with that. I just stop when I hit the pool wall and its hard.

Help please! Thanks!
AggieOO
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I remember when I was training for IMWI and was doing masters swim. I got put in the lane next to a 12 year old girl. She kicked my ass.
Tx-Ag2010
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AG
I wouldn't focus so much on effort. If you want to improve your times I would work on getting better technique. I haven't swam in years, but if you are putting in the time with the proper technique you should easily be able to get under 1:30. My dad is 54 years old and he does sets of 20 in the 1:20-1:30 range.
TXAG14
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Got back in the pool for the first time in years. Got my ass handed to me. Going to start tracking times Tuesday so I can watch my progress.
wangus12
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AG
If I was meant to swim, God would've given me flippers.


In all honesty, I don't think I could do 100m straight without doggie paddling or dying. Its something I really need to learn how to do
gif
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wangus12 said:

If I was meant to swim, God would've given me flippers.


In all honesty, I don't think I could do 100m straight without doggie paddling or dying. Its something I really need to learn how to do


Gotta start somewhere! When I first started training for ironman, I was 80 pounds overweight and could barely make it 25 meters without gasping for air. Little by little I added a few more laps and before you know it I'm doing over 2 miles without stopping. It's amazing how quickly you can add distance...just keep at it.
agcivengineer
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AG
Right now i swim 1600 meters in about 37 to 38 minutes or about 9 to 930 per 400. When i started i could barely swim 25 meters and 50 was insane.

I cant seem to get much faster than what im at now. Im guessing it technique and strength. I try to watch those that are faster and copy them. Im essentially self taught with no masters training.

As a person working on triathlons, i always keep kicking down to a minimum, but never sure if that is the best as it seems to increase my heart rate for minimal return....and i suck at kicking anyway. Any thoughts on that?
Swarely
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At the Atlas Tri I clocked a sub 7 min 400m open swim. I'm not sure that's accurate. That's 2 min faster than my fastest pool time. Any chance I just pulled that out because it was race day?

On another note: I had a mole removed so can't get in the pool for a couple more weeks. I don't like swimming, but I really do miss it.
htxag09
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AG
As a runner that wants to do a tri and add swimming to my rotation just for health reasons, I'll be following this thread.

Anyone have recommendations for a pool in Houston? Prefer to not join LA fitness, considering the Y and 24 hour. Also considering MAC but that's a little far for us.

Also, do you suggest a coach or class to get started?
agcivengineer
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AG
Swarely said:

At the Atlas Tri I clocked a sub 7 min 400m open swim. I'm not sure that's accurate. That's 2 min faster than my fastest pool time. Any chance I just pulled that out because it was race day?

On another note: I had a mole removed so can't get in the pool for a couple more weeks. I don't like swimming, but I really do miss it.



There could be 2 components to that...my observations..
1. The distance wasnt actually 400 m. Ive noticed the distances advertised are not exactly accurate.
2. Comparing to pool swimming laps is tough as well depending how good you are at turning. I lose about 3 to 4 secs per wall touch in my estimation which is about 1 minute per 400. This does not account however for choppier water and going around people and a slower start.

This is all with just a little experience, so take it for what its worth....
Kool
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AG
I am glad OP started this thread and hope to follow. I am like so many who learned to swim as a kid but never competed or learned great form, then decided to do a triathlon and am (re)learning how to swim.
My $.02 has been that there is a LOT of technique to swimming, more than I ever thought. Getting someone to set me on a good path took me last summer from being able to swim 50 yards without getting gassed to being able to swim about 1,000 yards in 3 1/2 months. I had fairly limited access to a pool during this time. Most of that teaching went out the window during the Sprint triathlon I did last fall, as there were 72 men released in the over-50 group, and it was really more like a combination of treading water, water polo, and brief moments of being able to swim.
Practice does NOT make perfect, practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect. I have a TON to learn and to practice before my Olympic triathlon this summer, but I hope to make swimming a permanent part of my lifetime fitness because biking puts me at risk of a possible career-ending injury (I am a surgeon), and running sucks so hard and makes my body feel worse. It is good to know that there are others in my same "boat".
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
wcb
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AG
If you're just starting out get a coach on deck ASAP. Over the past 7 years I've managed to up bike power & speed, drop my running paces, lower heart rate, but I've yet to budge the needle on swim pace. I've filmed myself and tried to fix what I know is bad form and it has helped some but not significantly. Upping your volume if you have poor technique only makes things worse.

I told myself that if I could get my bike and run where I wanted them then eventually I'd go after improving my swim. I'm starting to thing I went the wrong way. Coming out of the water feeling fresh sets you up for a really good day of racing.

Just my $0.02.
Ragoo
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AG
was planning on getting back in the pool this week, then congestion hit me this weekend. Can hardly breathe out of water not getting in water.

I can swim 400 meters in 6:15-6:30. I struggle swimming long distances. I tire quickly.
AggieNinetyNine
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AG
I just started swimming around this time last year when I started training for sprint tri's. Like others on here I could barely make it 50 yards. Now I swim 1,500 - 2,000 yards twice a week on my lunch break and really enjoy it. My goal this year is to improve my open water swimming so I can do an Olympic. I did a sprint last year with a 500 yd OWS and freaked a little with all the people, splashing, etc. and had to hold onto a kayak about 2/3 through the swim to compose myself. I didn't expect that at all as I am so comfortable in the water and did a practice OWS beforehand and was fine.
H2OPoloAg02
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I've been meaning to get back in the pool. I haven't been in at all in over a year. This has been the longest stretch out of the water since I wa 4 years old. Feels weird.

Anyone getting back in after a long layoff?
P.U.T.U
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AG
Swim coach is the best way to start, I went from muscling a 25y and being out of breath to a low of like 1:11 for a 50y. Never had a coach, just research and time in the pool, a lot of time. Listen to Gerry Rodriguez on his Pier 26 podcast, one of the better triathlon swim coaches out there and is responsible for Lionel Sanders cutting minutes off of his HIM and IM times.

While you will initially get faster swimming 2 times a week the more you can get in the pool the better. 3 days would be the minimum with 5 being ideal but that is a lot of time. The nice thing about swimming is once you get in shape you can kill yourself in the pool and be able to recover by the next day. That fitness will help with your swimming and running, as well as keeping your hip muscles stretched after running and biking.

Masters class will help a ton but you still need to get in the open water at least once a week if you can. I never did and my pool times never transferred to the open water.

Honestly for me to get "comfortable" in the water took around 3 years of swimming 10k+ in the pool a week. I never did abs in all that time and had a six pack, thank you swimming.
Dill-Ag13
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AG
Swam from an early age through HS.

Have struggled in the past year to adapt m stroke to Triathlon
wcb
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AG
Dill-Ag13 said:

Swam from an early age through HS.

Have struggled in the past year to adapt m stroke to Triathlon
As an adult onset swimmer this makes me feel a little better about my triathlon swim times
gd28
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AG
I think many triathletes who get frustrated with not seeing swim improvement (myself included) don't really comprehend the volume of swimming it takes to truly make a difference, especially if you're already a decent swimmer. I think I started to understand this and realize that 5000-7000 yds/week just won't cut it if you're trying to become a FOP swimmer when I saw someone post this on Slowtwitch. This is the background of many triathletes who are top swimmers.

P.U.T.U
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AG
I knew how much it would take to improve times, just didn't have time to put in 15-20k a week. After a while my plan was to be behind mid pack during the swim and then play catch up. Towards the end I ended up being front pack on the harder swims just because of the total time I have spent in the water over the years. But I was still minutes behind the elite guys which was less than ideal.
H2OPoloAg02
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gd28 said:

5000-7000 yds/week just won't cut it


Very true. Pretty much all serious swimmers grew up doing about 5k-7k per workout, with about 11 workouts per week (2x M-F + 1x Saturday) starting in jr high or early HS and going through college. Yes, that's about 10x per week what you're saying and they do it for a decade straight with 2 weeks off in March or April and another 2 weeks off in August. (Training has gotten much more scientific, so that's not necessarily all programs now adays, but it was for decades until science started to make coaches smarter)... then they retire and take a few years off before getting the itch and giving triathlons a whirl. At that point, they will still do 5k 3x-4x a week and feel like it's slacking.

Just take solice in the fact that most of them have never been ok a bike for more than an hour and sometimes forget to breathe when they run.
H2OPoloAg02
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So, I'll follow up my demoralizing post with some good news...

1) open water is a whole different animal that most swimmers aren't used to either.
2) the hardest thing to learn for new adult swimmers don't matter in open water
a) good efficient flip turns - don't exist in open water, so no biggie. Swimmers practice these by default from all the laps and it is the easiest place to make up seconds in a race that only lasts a couple minutes or less. But it doesn't matter in open water!!
b) holding top speed for more than a few second - you never hit top speed in a 1500m+ race, so who cares. Settle into your "marathon pace" and get really efficient with that
3) as mentioned several times, a coach can do wonders for your technique, which will make you faster AND more efficient. This is HUGE. I've coached some triathletes that only get modest improvements in the pool but their bike and swim times drop because they get out of the water more fresh. One guys only went from averaging 1:45per 100yd to 1:40 for a 1500, but he was so much more efficient, he crushed a 5 hr bike and qualified for kona. As a neophyte cyclist when I started I had the same phenomenon with the bike. I pounded a season on the bike and only had small improvements on that leg, but I was able to run much faster, dropping nearly half an hour on my 13.1.
htxag09
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AG
Anyone have a beginner coach recommendation in Houston?
Kool
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AG
Has anybody who was not a lifelong swimmer used the Total Immersion technique to re-learn swimming, either through a course or on DVDs? Positive or negative experience? Thanks in advance.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
BigTimeAlum
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AG
I have never used total immersion, but I had never swam competitively before picking up Triathlon seriously in my 30s. When I first started, I just jumped in and swam. I trained, but not is very structured way. I was consistently middle to back of the pack.

I broke my hip at one point and all I could do was swim when I first got clearance to be active. I spent time on YouTube watching form videos and joined a masters swim class. The Masters class helped, but mainly as guarantee that I would be getting in volume and some friendly competition. I would say almost all of my stroke improvements came from YouTube.

When I got back to racing, I was not just front of the pack, but off the front of the pack (in anything other than large ironmans). Form is everything given the resistance of the water. People would watch me swim and ask where I swam in college, and be very surprised that I learned as an adult.

The volume numbers everyone is saying are a bit inflated. I would say 10K a week is plenty to b competitive in triathlon. If you want massive improvements, you need BLOCKS of training where you go up to 15-20K per week, but its not needed every week.

My typical week for swimming:
M, W, F - 3K Masters Swim

Training for a big race:
M, W, F - 3-4K Masters or Tri training group
Su - 3-4K OWS with triathlon group

The moral of the story is you are WAY better off focusing on form improvement than swimming volume. It doesn't look as good on Strava or in the training log, but it is where the value is.
Kool
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AG
Thanks for the reply, Mr. Big Time. I have looked at YouTube videos on swimming as well. Who do you follow as far as those go? Gracias por su ayuda.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
BigTimeAlum
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AG
Kool said:

Thanks for the reply, Mr. Big Time. I have looked at YouTube videos on swimming as well. Who do you follow as far as those go? Gracias por su ayuda.

There is a bajillion of them. I used to have a library saved of ones that I liked, but don't anymore. Here is one on open water differences that I really liked:



It's more advanced, but shows high stroke rate which is great for swimming fast in the turbulence of open water. You get a lot of clean water to pull in the pool which is why normal swim strokes are longer with more glide.

For the basics, you should do independent searches for: Head Position, Catch, Pull & Exit . Lots of good videos on each phase with drills.

BigTimeAlum
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AG
For anyone really wanting to get competitive, I would also highly recommend finding a group that practices OWS. Mine met every Sunday and we would practices Starts, Buoy turns, sighting, drafting, how to touch feet in a draft without being a dick, how to swim over people without breaking stroke, etc.

Lots of great stuff that makes race day in the open water super easy.
htxag09
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AG
Bump...any online training guides? Similar to couch to 5k or Hal Higdon?
RO519
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AG
H2OPoloAg02 said:

gd28 said:

5000-7000 yds/week just won't cut it


Very true. Pretty much all serious swimmers grew up doing about 5k-7k per workout, with about 11 workouts per week (2x M-F + 1x Saturday) starting in jr high or early HS and going through college. Yes, that's about 10x per week what you're saying and they do it for a decade straight with 2 weeks off in March or April and another 2 weeks off in August. (Training has gotten much more scientific, so that's not necessarily all programs now adays, but it was for decades until science started to make coaches smarter)... then they retire and take a few years off before getting the itch and giving triathlons a whirl. At that point, they will still do 5k 3x-4x a week and feel like it's slacking.

Just take solice in the fact that most of them have never been ok a bike for more than an hour and sometimes forget to breathe when they run.
You hit the nail on the head man. I was a varsity swimmer through high school (could have swam at a smaller college, but wanted my Aggie ring) and we were swimming further than a lot of student walked each day. I swam a little in college to stay active, but took 3 years off after graduation when I started my career. When I got back in the pool, the workouts I was doing felt like I was slacking in the water. My bike was decent, but I am a terrible runner.
htxag09
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AG
Bump for a random question....any tips to not swallow air? I've been building a better and better base, but I feel like I'm constantly burping when swimming....
rlb28
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AG
Anyone belong to an over 40 water polo club in Houston area.
ENG
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AG
following

I have been cranking a lot on the bike since an ACL repair 5 years ago, been running and now I am naturally pursuing (slowly) doing a triathlon.

This will be the first one I have done in 30 years, decent sprint. My body feels great, swimming is an absolute torture (it was back in the day as well). I am certainly not 20 years old anymore. I will try to put in the time just to get acclimated at most for this one.

Open water 700m
16 mile bike
5 k run

I will survive the swim and rip through the bike and run.
AZAG08
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AG
H2OPoloAg02 said:



Just take solice in the fact that most of them have never been ok a bike for more than an hour and sometimes forget to breathe when they run.
This is me. Spent most of my life in a pool, but was absolutely amazed at the number of people that would pass me once I transitioned to the bike
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