Over the past few weeks my right knee has been bugging me. Forward motion seems fine; turning / twisting seems to create a sharp pain below the knee towards the outside, kind of where the ligaments and bones come together. I'd say it's fine 90% of the time. When I do feel it it's not incredibly painful, just unstable to where I know something's not right. Self diagnosis after viewing all of three youtube videos is something meniscus related.

I think I'm gonna see a doc if possible this week. I'm nine weeks out from what I had hoped would be a marathon PR, with three of the next five weeks being 50 mile weeks. I ran 13 on Saturday; I was fine through seven, then tweaked it again rounding a very gradual corner. Walked it off and ran the last six with zero pain.

I just want to make sure I'm not doing anything catastrophic to it.

Why your knee hurts....

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Location of Pain: Side of Knee
Possible Injury: Illiotibial Band Syndrome
If you feel a sharp, stabbing pain on the outside of your knee, you may be dealing with illiotibial band syndrome (ITBS), a very common running injury among runners.

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I've had IT band issues in the past, they always seem to come at the top of the knee. Mine seems to be right where the yellow / black intersect...

Maybe plain old runner's knee? Overuse/increased intensity of runs? Ibuprofen. Ice at night. Isometric exercises to strengthen the muscles around the knee.

*not a doctor

P.U.T.U said:

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Or just old

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Had to go there huh?

The old age bit only works if it is both knees. You have just as many miles on the left than the right.

aggiederelict said:

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The old age bit only works if it is both knees. You have just as many miles on the left than the right.

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You handle pain worse as an old fart though.

Not true. My old patients complain was less than my young patients.

Oh no, I was talking about wcb, not all old farts.

I have similar issues. Had meniscus cleaned up once and afraid it probably already needs it again and it only been 1.5 years.

You guys know how to make an old man feel loved.

03_Aggie said:

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I have similar issues. Had meniscus cleaned up once and afraid it probably already needs it again and it only been 1.5 years.

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Sounds like fun. Really hoping it doesn't go there.

In the meantime I'm starting to change my tune on the self diagnosis. There's a new pain dead center of the IT band. I'm thinking that maybe there is in fact something going on with it. Gonna do some research and see how to treat that (ice? roll it? rest?).

The insult to injury is that the temps finally dropped. Amazing running weather.

From reading on here it seems you never stop running or biking year around. I always took 3-4 weeks off to recovery mentally and physically after my last race. I would try rest before anything, chronic inflammation can tear things up

54 yrs old. I've had it in both knees and I've had it in one. When I was honest with myself, as in I'm not 20 where I can just suck it up and push on, every time I had the pain, I can trace it to overtraining and no rest.

Sometimes when I would have several days in between runs I thought I could go out and run 5-10 hard miles. Then do it again the next day. Big mistake.

Fortunately, rest and being smarter about easing back into mileage solve the problem.

P.U.T.U said:

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From reading on here it seems you never stop running or biking year around. I always took 3-4 weeks off to recovery mentally and physically after my last race. I would try rest before anything, chronic inflammation can tear things up

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I pretty much took the summer off (after Big Sur / Ft Worth 70.3). Killed me seeing my CTL get that low.



I did some strength / roll / ice mojo at lunch. May grab a massage this week. Doc appointment for next Thursday if things aren't firing on all cylinders by then.

Also when you take some time off you lose some of the strength above the knee that has been protecting the knee while you do run. The hips and the quads are all part of the system that protects the knee.

When you go back to training you have to really focus on building up the upper muscles as you begin to train again.

I've had 2 miniscus tears - one time was during training for a tri...the other time was right after i had taken a break and started back into my running regimen without first building up the core muscles. The knee took all the brunt of the running impact and it was a short time later than I had a severe tear.

Knee's feeling a ton better / stronger. Did some strength / bike workouts this week. Lots of rolling, a little ice and a little advil. IT band / quad knotted up really bad mid week but feels pretty much back to normal now.

Ran a mile on the treadmill yesterday with no issues. Gonna ease into 3 today and see how it feels. Think I'll still keep the doctor appointment next week just to get the all clear to ramp back up the mileage.

Thanks for all the feedback. And happy Friday the 13th to all.

I wonder if weight lifting type neoprene knee sleeves would be beneficial

I would go with a slower ramp than jumping immediately from 1-3 Miles.

Pain with rotational movements would more likely be meniscus related than ITB, which would be a problem with direct pressure over that tissue, or repeated flexion (increased pressure of ITB against bony and soft tissue structures at 30 degrees knee flexion), or running with weak hips. Have you had any issues with the knee locking up/not being able to fully straighten your knee?

Side note, unlikely a neoprene sleeve will be helpful. I'll try to remember to check back since I don't have a sub and can't get notifications.

If it is ITB however, note that the prevailing theory in recovery is relative rest (decrease training workload) and an increase in posterior chain strength (glutes, primarily).

Thanks for the advice.

Today was one week since the 13 mile run that brought me to a halt. And today was the first day since with zero issues. Twisting and turning feels fine. Stairs feel fine. All of the little ways I would notice it are gone.

I wound up taking 4 days off from running (possibly the first four consecutive days this year?). Did some strength training and a little easy cycling. Thursday I ran 1 and Friday I ran 3, both on a Woodway treadmill. Felt fine. Yesterday I did 5 outside. Felt fine. Today it was 7. Zero issues.

I'm taking tomorrow off to get back on my normal schedule. I'm now 8 weeks out from what I hope to be a marathon PR. This week will be the official go / no go. I see the doc on Thursday. Scheduled runs are 5/10/5/off/10/20 for a 50 mile week. I'll be doing a ton of stretching and probably some ice and rolling as well.

At this point I'm really hoping something was just inflamed and needed some rest. All indications as of today point that direction. This week should prove to be decisive one way or another.

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This week should prove to be decisive one way or another.

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And it was.

Runs of 5/10/5 went fine. Saw the doc. He gave me the all clear as long as things felt good, said I had rested it properly.

Yesterday's 10 went fine. 30 miles for the week. Feeling great.

Today was supposed to be 20. I made it 4 before it started acting up. Not crazy pain but just not 100%; I was feeling it in the same spot as before. It got more frequent and finally at mile 6 I called it a day.

I think it's time to pull the plug on the marathon. I'm just not holding up to the high mileage weeks like I wanted (and like I did in the winter / spring). At this point I'm thinking I'll take a few weeks off and then start a bike focus with some strength work mixed it. Really drop the running volume for the rest of the year.

I have three guesses as to what led to this. Ultimately it was likely a combination of them.

1. Weight

I'm running a good 5-10lbs over my norm. I kept putting off changing my diet hoping that some weight would drop with increased miles. I should have learned from the past; I have yet to drop weight while marathon training without changing my diet. Dumb.

2. Ramping up too quickly

Again I should have known better. I had an incredible winter / spring and then took the summer off. I think I let my base get too low and then jumped back into a fairly aggressive marathon plan hoping to have maintained fitness from 4 months ago. Dumb.

3. New shoes

I'm still not sure what to make of this one. I've run in Brooks Glycerins for years. Up through 2015 their 8.5's fit me like a glove. Last year's model they changed the fit to a smaller toe box. I was able to find 2015 versions through all of last year and this spring / summer. I finally decided to go to a newer model. Doing so meant either (a) going with an 8.5 and very slightly cramped toe box or (b) going to a 9 with had a little more overall room. I started with the 9's back in September. In October the knee issues began. I'm thinking a little extra movement / slipping in the shoe ultimately may have been a contributing factor

Again, it was likely a combination of the three.

Time to rest and refocus. Thank everyone for the encouragement along the way.

Two months now of minimal running and still not 100%. Think I'll head back to the doc and see if we can get some imaging done to figure out what's up. Derelict anything else you recommend?

Have your tried glucosamine/chondroiton supplements?

I've had great results with this

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Osteo-Bi-FLex-Glucosamine-Chondroitin-with-Joint-Shield-Value-Pack-Coated-Tablets-160-count/10312331

Where are you located?

Ft Worth

X-rays were clear. Getting an MRI later today. I predict something in the outer meniscus (small tear?).

Doc basically told me "do whatever you're comfortable with". Not the answer I wanted. I'm hoping MRI gives a definitive diagnosis so that I can get a treatment plan in place.

Assuming it is meniscus, I've gone up to four weeks with no running. I'm thinking I'll give it until Feb 1 (~6 weeks). I'll likely keep on the bike (back off the Sufferfest stuff and just stick with z2/z3) and swim.

I had a tweaky knee for a year or two. I quit running for about 20 years and it's a lot better now.

I can't really recommend that solution though.

wbt5845 said:

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I quit running for about 20 years and it's a lot better now.

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I'll get right on that.

A few things to discuss here.

Results for meniscus surgery are iffy at best, whether a repair or mensicectony. Just not great surgeries. Personally wouldn't have it done unless the knee is completely locking up.

As stated by someone above, increased strength is protective for pain and dysfunction of the knee. Have you been strength training the last two months or jogging/biking and hoping it would get better?

Your doc telling you "do whatever you're comfortable with" is a good thing. Means some things may be uncomfortable but you likely don't have the serious damage that you would complicate by continuing to be active.

Ok, sorry to keep resurrecting this thread. Got the MRI results today.

1. Mild pes anserine burstitus
2. Small horizontal tear posterior horn lateral meniscus immediately adjacent to the root attachment
3. Minimal/mild tricompartmental chondrosis, no stress edema
4. 9.5cm ganglion dissects anteriorly and laterally from the distal ACL*

*doc thinks it was a typeo, supposed to be 9.5mm; said that cysts can be normal

So there it is. Pretty much what I expected. He was not concerned at all. Said one week rest, one week easy, then I should be back at it. He did prescribe some heavy duty anti-inflammation cream (2x daily for a month).

Problem is I took 3 full weeks off from running in November. Started back easy on a treadmill and still had issues.

Livestrong says 6-8 weeks no running for full recovery. Cycling / swimming / easy lifting should be ok. I'm currently on week two of no running and it feels fine.

It's killing me to not run but I'm thinking I'll take all of January off in hopes that this thing heals up 100%. Start back short / slow in February and build back up.

Any of you been there? Would love to hear your thoughts.