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Low carb: nutritionist view

4,898 Views | 30 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by KidDoc
newhowdyag2004
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I'm fully convinced, and have read enough peer reviewed studies to believe low carb is the healthiest way to go.

That being said, are there any professionals here who disagree?
KidDoc
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AG
Just get cholesterol done to make sure you don't have baseline high cholesterol. Otherwise good luck avoiding delicious bread and beer. It is very healthy but not the most fun.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
wcb
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AG
I was walking through Wal Mart last night and noticed for the first time - EVERY end cap, aisle display, etc. CARBS. Chips. Cereal. Snacks. I knew the checkout / binge display was loaded, but never really paid attention to the rest of the setup.
newhowdyag2004
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What evidence is there of cholesterol being bad? From what I've read, it's a false narrative (not trying to flame).
bigtruckguy3500
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There's a very strong correlation between your cholesterol values and heart disease. On a population level it is a good predictor of your risks, but there are always genetic freaks that have great cholesterol and still get heart attacks, and people with horrible cholesterol that don't.



ETA: you may be thinking about dietary cholesterol. In which case, you're correct - more and more evidence is pointing to it not being a risk factor for heart disease UNLESS you've got a genetic predisposition to certain blood lipid disorders.
KidDoc
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AG
You are correct dietary cholesterol intake seems to be less important than previously thought. However if your baseline is on the high/borderline high range you may want to think twice before eating eggs & bacon all day.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
newhowdyag2004
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But if you eat low carb, and stay away from hydrogenated oils/trans, etc the data shows HDL goes up, LDL A up and LDL B down (B is the small BB shaped ones while A is "fluffier" and not harmful).
AggieLAX
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AG
"Healthiest" is a bit vague. What, exactly, are you referring to? Certain diseases? Obesity in general?
P.U.T.U
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AG
It depends on your body too but for the most part Americans eat way too many carbs (some Africans have eaten 75% of their calories from carbs for some many generations their bodies have adapted). We sit for 8 hours or whatever a day and then eat a big bowl of pasta...what do you need that many carbs for?

Seeing as there are two medical professionals that responded, should be easy to tell who they are and you asked for professionals, I would agree with them
AggieOO
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P.U.T.U said:

We sit for 8 hours or whatever a day and then eat a big bowl of pasta...what do you need that many carbs for?

because its delicious.
wcb
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AG
P.U.T.U said:

We sit for 8 hours or whatever a day...
It's not uncommon that I'm sitting or lying 21+ hours a day. Pretty sad realization.
P.U.T.U
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AG
AggieOO said:

P.U.T.U said:

We sit for 8 hours or whatever a day and then eat a big bowl of pasta...what do you need that many carbs for?

because its delicious.
Rhetorical question, I have been sitting since 5am and I am enjoying a tasty IPA with some bbq to follow. But you and WCB lead active lifestyles so it balances it out. As my mom has always said, "I work out so I can be flexible on what I eat and not gain weight", seeing as she is in the same good shape as she has always been it seemed like good advise.

And healthy is relative, are you looking at body fat, BMI, looks, weight, etc. too many to go on.
newhowdyag2004
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Which Africans do you speak of who eat high carb and have adapted?

The Maasai are an example of people who eat low carb, high saturated fats and do very well.

Also, are there any studies that show carb diets are healthier than fat diets? When I mean healthy, I speak to rates of body fat, diabetes, heart diseases, etc.
shano0603
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AG
wcb said:

I was walking through Wal Mart last night and noticed for the first time - EVERY end cap, aisle display, etc. CARBS. Chips. Cereal. Snacks. I knew the checkout / binge display was loaded, but never really paid attention to the rest of the setup.
If you are doing low card. All you need to do is stay on the outskirts of most grocery stores. Fruits, veggies, meat, yogurt, etc are all there. Don't look at the end caps with doritos for $1.75. It's impossible to do, but it's good in theory.
bigtruckguy3500
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Have you looked into the extremely low fat diets like the Ornish or Esselstyn diets? They actually say you shouldn't be eating any meat/fat/dairy/oil. And as far as I know, they're the only diets proven to actually reverse heart disease.
pinkdog
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In answer to the OP, I think you have to ask the question: low carb is the best way to go FOR WHO? Depends on the person; there are Kenyans who eat the 75% carb diet (and they run >100 miles a week). For them the high carb diet is necessary to support their activity and to even help them keep on some weight. Or take a toddler with poor oral intake who is not gaining enough weight for good development: a high carb diet would help him get the calories he needs. (Or any baby, I guess--milk is high is sugars/carbs). I know you are probably asking for adult Americans who may be more sedentary and for a good portion of them, a low carb diet may be the best way to go, but it can get more complex; I guess I wouldn't look as low carb as a blanket that would be good for all.
aggie7911
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Cals in vs cals out all that matters..hth
P.U.T.U
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AG
aggie7911 said:

Cals in vs cals out all that matters..hth
That may not be the case anymore
Max06
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AG
wcb said:

I was walking through Wal Mart last night and noticed for the first time - EVERY end cap, aisle display, etc. CARBS. Chips. Cereal. Snacks. I knew the checkout / binge display was loaded, but never really paid attention to the rest of the setup.
This is almost always the case. The 'healthiest' foods are almost always on the perimeter of the store- produce, meats, dairy, eggs. The processed stuff- bread, pasta, canned goods, boxed meals, etc. are on the in center aisles.

Carbs are also CHEAP. When talking about most calories for the penny, carbs are the way to go. I'm dealing with this exact thing right now as I am launching a new food pantry in the area. We are desperately trying to provide higher quality, more nutritious food than was ever historically available thru food pantries.
AgEng06
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AG
Can you expand on this post? I'm not trying to flame or prove you wrong. I think with a post like that you should provide some background or info for the poster you are addressing.
P.U.T.U
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AG
Older article but states things well

Try it, eat non-proceed food for a week and eat the same amount of calories with processed food for a week and see how you look and feel (two weeks is preferred though). Then eat a lower carb diet while adding additional healthy fat
AgEng06
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AG
Thanks for the link.

I'd also give a little more credence to that article if the author didn't try to hock his own detox diet plan at the end of it. Now I'm unsure if what he wrote was just to prop up his product. (I'm not saying it's bad info, it just sends the wrong message, IMO.)

And for the record, I like my diet just fine. I was just trying to add some substance to your response.
shano0603
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AG
aggie7911 said:

Cals in vs cals out all that matters..hth
Overall weight loss/gain, yes.

But I challenge anyone to see the difference on how you look/feel when you eat clean and space out your meals. 100g of carbs from rice effects your body differently than from processed sugar.
KidDoc
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AG
shano0603 said:

aggie7911 said:

Cals in vs cals out all that matters..hth
Overall weight loss/gain, yes.

But I challenge anyone to see the difference on how you look/feel when you eat clean and space out your meals. 100g of carbs from rice effects your body differently than from processed sugar.
I know this is a popular belief and all "processed foods" are evil but I have never seen any real data proving such a theory. I am not a fan of boxed foods overall as they tend to run very high in sodium and carbs but I haven't seen any good studies showing that increased consumption of boxed foods leads to increased BMI, dyslipidemia, hypertension, heart disease, diabetes etc that cannot be explained by the simple increase in BMI and lack of activity.

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything I would just love to see actual data other than "this food evil!" kind of discussion just because it is the current fad.

Of course, the reason for a lack of such data is there are too many confounding variables to really know what is going on with the human body. It would require a pretty difficult study to really prove a difference with large numbers of people with different genetic backgrounds. And who would fund it anyway?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
shano0603
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AG
my post had nothing to do with any studies or data, just my personal experience. Eating fast food/bad foods makes me feel lethargic. I get better workouts, have more energy all day by eating better. You can't tell me that someone who eats one meal a day(patty melt from whataburger, whatasized with a large coke) at 1,600 calories is going to get the same results as someone who eats 4 spaced out meals with veggies. Calories aren't the exact same. Your body processes them differently.
culdeus
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AG
There's something else at work beyond traditional thermodynamics with respect to fat gain/loss. Yes, dropping calories will yield losses but there seems to be something else at work specifically with how the body takes and stores junk calories from carbs.

Someone will eventually crack this code.
Elephant Tears
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Like Kid Doc said, I'm not trying to start an argument because what you're saying makes sense and it is what most experts will tell you to do.....BUT, I know 3 physically tremendous guys that eat once a day, sometimes twice, at 1900-2500 calories/day. Seeing this led me to try it myself with great results. Some call it intermittent fasting, others just say that's the way they like to eat. It comes down to everyone's body being different and able to handle things that others may not. These guys are in tremendous physical condition and do not have "off seasons" like most that follow the multiple small meals have.
P.U.T.U
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AG
KidDoc said:

shano0603 said:

aggie7911 said:

Cals in vs cals out all that matters..hth
Overall weight loss/gain, yes.

But I challenge anyone to see the difference on how you look/feel when you eat clean and space out your meals. 100g of carbs from rice effects your body differently than from processed sugar.
I know this is a popular belief and all "processed foods" are evil but I have never seen any real data proving such a theory. I am not a fan of boxed foods overall as they tend to run very high in sodium and carbs but I haven't seen any good studies showing that increased consumption of boxed foods leads to increased BMI, dyslipidemia, hypertension, heart disease, diabetes etc that cannot be explained by the simple increase in BMI and lack of activity.


Of course, the reason for a lack of such data is there are too many confounding variables to really know what is going on with the human body. It would require a pretty difficult study to really prove a difference with large numbers of people with different genetic backgrounds. And who would fund it anyway?
You just pointed out the reason that most processed foods are not ideal, added sugar and salt. Most people buy white or wheat bread and even those have a ton of added sugar in them. Buy some quality sourdough that has only five ingredients and you are much better off. Is it still "proccessed"? Yes but it doesn't have an ingredients list that spans a mile long.

The whole FDA food suggestions are a joke, just follow the money. Grains and sugar are big money makers that fund a lot of the studies. Doctors in medical school take 1-2 classes in pharmacology yet prescribe the meds based on the symptoms. I read the other day that 80% of GPs never ask their patients that come in for high BP or diebetes type symptoms what their diet is (trying to find the study and will post it if I have time to). Treating the symptoms and not the cause is idiotic from a medical standpoint but from a time and money aspect it makes sense. I feel for doctors with how much they have on their plates.

The human body is so complex that we still have no idea of the "ideal" diet. To me it comes down to this, we live largely sedentary lifestyles now so why do we need all of these carbs for "energy"? Diabetes, blood pressure, cholesterol, and obesity are out of control in America. Focus on vegetables and good sources of protein, add complex carbs if working out that day. For the majority Americans eat way too much carbs and are not active (this is a H&F forum so people here are most likely not in this category).
P.U.T.U
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AG
Try not eating for 12 hours, sleeping or not, and see if you are dying because of hunger. If so you are eating too many carbs and not enough fat. I do fast from time to time to make sure I am doing okay with my diet. Nice part about this is if I am busy with work or have a ton of meetings I am fine not eating lunch.

I would say Army Rangers eat once a day but they are 10x more active than a normal active person so that is a bad comparison. But give me a good brunch and my wife and I have been known to "Ranger" it.
KidDoc
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AG
P.U.T.U said:

KidDoc said:

shano0603 said:

aggie7911 said:

Cals in vs cals out all that matters..hth
Overall weight loss/gain, yes.

But I challenge anyone to see the difference on how you look/feel when you eat clean and space out your meals. 100g of carbs from rice effects your body differently than from processed sugar.
I know this is a popular belief and all "processed foods" are evil but I have never seen any real data proving such a theory. I am not a fan of boxed foods overall as they tend to run very high in sodium and carbs but I haven't seen any good studies showing that increased consumption of boxed foods leads to increased BMI, dyslipidemia, hypertension, heart disease, diabetes etc that cannot be explained by the simple increase in BMI and lack of activity.


Of course, the reason for a lack of such data is there are too many confounding variables to really know what is going on with the human body. It would require a pretty difficult study to really prove a difference with large numbers of people with different genetic backgrounds. And who would fund it anyway?
You just pointed out the reason that most processed foods are not ideal, added sugar and salt. Most people buy white or wheat bread and even those have a ton of added sugar in them. Buy some quality sourdough that has only five ingredients and you are much better off. Is it still "proccessed"? Yes but it doesn't have an ingredients list that spans a mile long.

The whole FDA food suggestions are a joke, just follow the money. Grains and sugar are big money makers that fund a lot of the studies. Doctors in medical school take 1-2 classes in pharmacology yet prescribe the meds based on the symptoms. I read the other day that 80% of GPs never ask their patients that come in for high BP or diebetes type symptoms what their diet is (trying to find the study and will post it if I have time to). Treating the symptoms and not the cause is idiotic from a medical standpoint but from a time and money aspect it makes sense. I feel for doctors with how much they have on their plates.

The human body is so complex that we still have no idea of the "ideal" diet. To me it comes down to this, we live largely sedentary lifestyles now so why do we need all of these carbs for "energy"? Diabetes, blood pressure, cholesterol, and obesity are out of control in America. Focus on vegetables and good sources of protein, add complex carbs if working out that day. For the majority Americans eat way too much carbs and are not active (this is a H&F forum so people here are most likely not in this category).
Very valid points and I agree the FDA is behind the curve in a big way. I only do kids so I ask about diets several times a day because the parents can influence the younger kid's diet and just not bring trash food home. I would imagine most adult docs just got tired of talking about diet only for the patient to ignore them or get mad at them and result in no change. That is a big reason I decided back in 1999 to not practice adult medication.

I essentially never eat breakfast because I'm not hungry and it saves me a few hundred calories daily. So I know my carb load is not out of control but I'm certainly not low enough for ketosis as I do enjoy occasional bread, beer, pasta.

Anyhow good discussion and I doubt there will ever be an ideal diet for everyone, there is far too much variation in basal metabolic rates and other variables to be a perfect diet.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
shano0603
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AG
Everyone's body is going to work a little differently. I watched a video a couple years ago with a couple of strongmen. One said he only eats 2-3 meals a day, Just an enormous amount of food. The other said he broke his up into 5-6 meals. Neither are wrong, that just works for them. They aren't trying to win any bodybuilding competitions and can get away with eating pizzas and what not because they are 350 pounds and have to eat 7k calories just to maintain weight.

That being said, it's completely different than trying to build lean muscle or lose weight.
KidDoc
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AG
This study was in one of my MDlinx emails this morning. Not sure why it cut off the last sentence but interesting in the processed vs whole grain discussion. Only 81 subjects but a good study.

------------------------------------------------
A new study suggests that substituting whole grains for refined grains in the diet increases calorie loss by reducing calories retained during digestion and speeding up metabolism. This research was published in tandem with a study on the effect of whole grains on gut microbiota.

Both studies were published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

Epidemiology studies have suggested health benefits of whole grains and high dietary fiber intake, including for glycemic control and insulin sensitivity. There has been controversy, however, about whether whole grains and fiber are beneficial for weight regulation, partially because there hasn't been data from controlled metabolic studies. This new study provided food to participants for eight weeks and may help explain how whole grain consumption is beneficial for weight management.

"This study helps to quantify how whole grains and fiber work to benefit weight management, and lend credibility to previously reported associations between increased whole grains and fiber consumption, lower body weight and better health," says Phil J. Karl, PhD, first author of the study, alumnus of the Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy at Tufts, former research assistant in the Energy Metabolism Laboratory at the Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging (HNRCA) at Tufts University in Boston, and current nutrition scientist at the U.S. Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine in Natick, MA.

People who ate a diet with whole grains, which matched the recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for fiber, lost close to an extra 100 calories per day due to a combination of increased resting metabolic rate and greater fecal losses. This is compared to people who ate refined grains without much fiber.

"We provided all food to ensure that the composition of the diets differed only in grain source. The extra calories lost by those who ate whole grains was equivalent of a brisk 30 min walk or enjoying an extra small cookie every day in terms of its impact," said senior author Susan B. Roberts, PhD, senior scientist and director of the Energy Metabolism Laboratory at USDA HNRCA.

The research team conducted an eightweek randomized singleblind comparative study with 81 men and women between the ages of 40 and 65. In the first two weeks of the study all participants ate the same type of food, and individual calorie needs were determined. After two weeks, participants were randomly assigned to eat a diet that included either whole grains or refined grains. The wholegrain diet and the refinedgrain diet differed mostly in grain and fiber contentthe energy, macronutrient composition, type of food, and meal structure were similar.

Participants were asked to consume all the food provided and nothing else, return the food they had not eaten, and continue with their usual physical activity. The purpose of this dietary control was to study the effect of whole grains compared to refined grains on resting metabolic rate and fecal energy losses, as well as feelings of hunger and fullness.

Throughout the eight weeks, researchers measured weight, metabolic rate, blood glucose, fecal calories, hunger and fullness. At the end of the study, those who ate whole grains had an increase in resting metabolic rate and fecal energy losses compared to those who ate refined grains. The extra fecal energy losses were not due to the extra fiber itself (which was accounted for in calculations) but from the effect the fiber had on the digestibility of other food calories.

The researchers caution that the effects of a wholegrain diet on resting metabolic rate were sensitive to dietary adherence, so cautious interpretation is warranted. Based on previous research and current study measurements, however, they believe that the calorie loss was not due exclusively to the digestion of ext
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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