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Ketogenic Diet

124,941 Views | 868 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Lsprott
IslandAg76
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AG
<<<<Sounds like I could eat bacon and eggs or steak for every meal, which sounds like heaven. >>>>

Well, you can't.
I haven't seen it mentioned here much but I have a hard time getting my fat: protein ratio to the roughly 4:1 ratio you want for Keto. A lot of the times I'm on a high protein diet and not ket O.
A well marbled steak or fatty brisket are about 50-50 fat protein and you want to be (roughly) 80:20 so you have a lot more fat to consume. And, if you eat a big steak and add the fat you need then you just blew thru a million calories and while they may not count as much, they still count.
It takes effort (for me at least) to take in the proper amount of fat and keep protein and calories in proper proportions.

As I said, often I'm on a high fat, high protein, low carb diet and that isn't keto.
Esteban du Plantier
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Cstrickland05 said:

My wife and I are looking into starting a keto diet, my mind can't really wrap around how you lose weight eating a ton of fat.

Sounds like I could eat bacon and eggs or steak for every meal, which sounds like heaven. Although no beer will be an issue.



At the end of the day, losing weight is all about caloric deficit.

On a high sugar diet, you have huge blood sugar swings, so you eat, then get hungry again quickly.

On high fat, you have very low blood sugar response.

Even if you have only a couple pounds of fat on your body, that's days worth in energy that your body can access when you're in caloric deficit.

As a result, you pretty much don't get hungry ever, so it's pretty easy to maintain a high deficit.

You could maintain a high deficit on a high sugar diet, but you'll be constantly hungry, so you'll need an iron will to keep on that diet.
irish pete ag06
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IslandAg76 said:

<<<<Sounds like I could eat bacon and eggs or steak for every meal, which sounds like heaven. >>>>

Well, you can't.
I haven't seen it mentioned here much but I have a hard time getting my fat: protein ratio to the roughly 4:1 ratio you want for Keto. A lot of the times I'm on a high protein diet and not ket O.
A well marbled steak or fatty brisket are about 50-50 fat protein and you want to be (roughly) 80:20 so you have a lot more fat to consume. And, if you eat a big steak and add the fat you need then you just blew thru a million calories and while they may not count as much, they still count.
It takes effort (for me at least) to take in the proper amount of fat and keep protein and calories in proper proportions.

As I said, often I'm on a high fat, high protein, low carb diet and that isn't keto.
Chase results, not ketones.


And that ratio may get you into a deeper state of ketosis, but as long as your insulin isn't spiking, you won't store fat. Protein has been proven time and time again to not spike insulin. It may raise it a little, but not much.
lockett93
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I'm also probably a high protein, low carb dieter as well. I'm not watching any macros at all except no carbs in my diet. I attempt to eat no added sugars at all, knowing that everything has some sugar carbs. (1 cup of broccoli is 2-4). Snacks are usually meats wrapped in cheese. Lots of chicken Caesar salads, and egg/sausage/cheese casserole.

Is there a benefit to watching macros and attempting to eat more fat if I'm not getting to the keto ratios? Am I eating more of an Atkins model if I'm not getting the fat ratios for Keto diet?

Started "Keto" on 7/3 and I'm down 20 pounds from 203-183 as of today. I'm not hungry and feel normal (not weak, no brain fog, etc).
irish pete ag06
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lockett93 said:

I'm also probably a high protein, low carb dieter as well. I'm not watching any macros at all except no carbs in my diet. I attempt to eat no added sugars at all, knowing that everything has some sugar carbs. (1 cup of broccoli is 2-4). Snacks are usually meats wrapped in cheese. Lots of chicken Caesar salads, and egg/sausage/cheese casserole.

Is there a benefit to watching macros and attempting to eat more fat if I'm not getting to the keto ratios? Am I eating more of an Atkins model if I'm not getting the fat ratios for Keto diet?

Started "Keto" on 7/3 and I'm down 20 pounds from 203-183 as of today. I'm not hungry and feel normal (not weak, no brain fog, etc).
The original keto diet was not made to lose fat, it was created as therapy for the treating epilepsy, so the 4:1 ratio you see there is about maxing out ketones so you don't have a seizure. There's no added benefit to fat burning by going deeper into keto.

The reasons eating modified Atkins works for fat loss is because people eat less calories since fat and protein are appetite suppressing. Carbs create the insulin spike and an ensuing blood sugar reduction to below baseline (hypoglycemia) which triggers an appetite response. I noticed this on days I would skip breakfast, I would not get hungry until lunch, if I ate a carby breakfast at around 6am and I would be having massive hunger pains at like 9:30 am.

All of that mentioned above are why I also am off of this WOE right now. I tried to "keto bulk" for nearly 3 months (12 weeks) and I was only able to gain a very small amount of weight/muscle. The appetite suppression is real. I was trying to eat 3200-3400 calories per day, sometimes even more and it was really miserable. I was NEVER hungry. Every meal became a force down. When I switched back to eating carbs and spiking my insulin, the ensuing hunger pains would hit and I was hungry again. It was a breeze to eat 3500 calories per day, where when keto it was nearly impossible.
MosesHallEnforcer
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Ever look into leangains?
JamesBREI06
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I believe he is into ketogains... which i also like
Whoop!
irish pete ag06
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MosesHallEnforcer said:

Ever look into leangains?
Yes. Pretty good way of not going ham with the carbs and being able to reap both sides of the benefits.

I haven't been tracking for the last 2 months after tracking every day for the previous 7-8 months.
OldAg92
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Having a rough day today. I've been on the Keto diet since April. Started at 240 pounds and now down to 196. I feel better and look better than I have in 20 years. But today I learned that since I have started keto, my testosterone levels have dropped over 400 points. For the last several years, it has been between 750-800. I have changed nothing since my last labs other than going on the keto diet and sticking to it religiously for 18 weeks. I had blood work yesterday and my testosterone level was 335 (in March, just before starting keto, it was 787).

As a bit of background, I've been on hormone replacement therapy since age 12 (I'm 48 now) so my testosterone is checked often and has been pretty consistent for decades. I spun into a depressive state immediately upon opening my lab results this morning. 787 to 335? Can the diet do this?
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AggieChemist
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OldAg92 said:

Having a rough day today. I've been on the Keto diet since April. Started at 240 pounds and now down to 196. I feel better and look better than I have in 20 years. But today I learned that since I have started keto, my testosterone levels have dropped over 400 points. For the last several years, it has been between 750-800. I have changed nothing since my last labs other than going on the keto diet and sticking to it religiously for 18 weeks. I had blood work yesterday and my testosterone level was 335 (in March, just before starting keto, it was 787).

As a bit of background, I've been on hormone replacement therapy since age 12 (I'm 48 now) so my testosterone is checked often and has been pretty consistent for decades. I spun into a depressive state immediately upon opening my lab results this morning. 787 to 335? Can the diet do this?
Damn. Are you exercising?
OldAg92
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I exercise six days a week. M-W-F I lift for 45-50 minutes in the morning. Tu-Th-Sat I ride the lifecycle for 45 minutes. Sunday I rest. I also mix in heavy bag workouts and walking at night with my wife.
irish pete ag06
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OldAg92 said:

Having a rough day today. I've been on the Keto diet since April. Started at 240 pounds and now down to 196. I feel better and look better than I have in 20 years. But today I learned that since I have started keto, my testosterone levels have dropped over 400 points. For the last several years, it has been between 750-800. I have changed nothing since my last labs other than going on the keto diet and sticking to it religiously for 18 weeks. I had blood work yesterday and my testosterone level was 335 (in March, just before starting keto, it was 787).

As a bit of background, I've been on hormone replacement therapy since age 12 (I'm 48 now) so my testosterone is checked often and has been pretty consistent for decades. I spun into a depressive state immediately upon opening my lab results this morning. 787 to 335? Can the diet do this?
I'm sorry to hear that!

The research on this has been all over the place. I've seen some that have said that Keto kills testosterone but I've seen some that suggest eating saturated fat and cholesterol increase testosterone. How much red meat are you eating?
OldAg92
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Red meat once a week, sometimes twice. Typically it is a 12-16 oz steak on the weekend and then occasionally I'll also have a burger during the week
irish pete ag06
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Are you on any new medications that could lower it also?
OldAg92
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Nothing. The only thing I have added to my regimen are magnesium and potassium supplements (one pill each at bedtime) to help with nocturnal leg cramping. That's it.
Esteban du Plantier
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OldAg92 said:

Red meat once a week, sometimes twice. Typically it is a 12-16 oz steak on the weekend and then occasionally I'll also have a burger during the week


Where are you getting protein if you eat red meat only once a week?
OldAg92
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chicken, salmon, tilapia, turkey, pork loin, eggs, bacon, avocado, pork ribs, natural peanut butter,
Saxsoon
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I started on July 29th at 208-209. I am not sure if I am hitting the macros and might be closer to just low carb but I weighed myself and was 186 this morning. Down a pant size and my neck went from 17.5 to a 16. Been feeling better after that initial week and lots of self confidence I haven't had in a long time. The IF has gone a long way to help and keeps food costs lower.
Fighting Texas Aggie Class of 2012
aggiecive
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I'm a few weeks in on keto and so far so good. I'm meeting a customer at Black Walnut cafe tomorrow and was checking out the options in their menu tonight. Do y'all think this will be safe?

NEW GARLIC SHRIMP ZUCCHINI
Zucchini "noodles", blackened shrimp, garlic, olive oil, lemon, Marie cheese
YellAgs
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Sounds like the closest thing to safe. One meal won't throw you out of ketosis.
OldAg92
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That is probably a pretty safe meal. They also serve breakfast all day so you could do eggs & bacon. I've had that for dinner a few times at Black Walnut
nashvilleaggie11
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I visited College Station last weekend and they had something similar to this on the featured menu at Napa Flats. I did not get it (got Chicken Sonoma instead...making certain subs to make it keto). Sounds good and keto friendly though.

In other news, I hit 35 pounds down today. Whoop!
aggiecive
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Thanks for the replies. A couple of weeks ago I had a cauliflower pizza from California Pizza Kitchen and was later surprised they included rice flour so the carbs were higher than expected. I was mostly curious if anyone knew "surprises" in this type of meal. Still trying to find all the hidden carb in foods I thought would be safe.

I had the zucchini pasta for lunch and it was very good. I recommend you try it if you find yourself at a Black Walnut.
rhoswen
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27 lbs since mid-july
Sully
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Looking for some opinions. Had labs done and my GP wants to put me on Lipitor...really not a fan of this. Here are my results:

HDL: 29
LDL: 135
Chol: 205
Tri: 205

As I said, I am not a fan of statins and don't want to take this. My HDL has always been low and Tris have always been elevated. Total Cholesterol is elevated more than usual, but I'm thinking that is due to Keto.

Any thoughts from the Keto crew on this?
bigtruckguy3500
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Do you have actual number from before going on keto?
How long have you been on keto?
What is your keto diet like? That is, are you eating the salmon, the olive oil, the pecans, avocados, etc. along with lots of veggies? Or is it more just lots of bacon, eggs, and steak and veggies?
And are you exercising? If so, how much and what types?

Everyone is obviously different, but you may try moving to a plant based diet for 2-3 months and repeating your lipid panel. I'm very surprised that your HDL is that low while on keto. Probably not what you want to hear, but I think it's a safer thing to try than just continuing with keto. I would agree that staying off a statin is ideal.

You also have to keep in mind that more and more data is suggesting that traditional cholesterol numbers don't give the full picture to heart disease risk. Your LDL is actually calculated on most lipid panels, not measured. And there are different types of LDLs, some associated with greater risk than others. Additionally, inflammation may play a bigger role than we've given it credit for. There are tests that measure inflammation in the body (ESR, CRP), but they're very non-specific. If you get one done now, and then repeat if you decide to try a plant based diet, that would be a good comparison.

Madmarttigan
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So when I started going low carb or keto I was eating lots of red meat and dairy and my LDL skyrocketed to the 180s, previously not great around 130. I switched from cheese snacking to eating a lot more nuts, it is more carbs but I'm not really trying to keto just stay low carb. LDL went down over 50 back to the 130 mark. It still isn't great, but definitely think that cheese and butter contributed to the LDL problems more so versus red meat. Still trying to improve and trying out some red yeast rice so I don't have to start a statin when I'm only 31. I do take fish oil daily already and that might help with your triglycerides.
Formerly tv1113
rhoswen
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Officially down 40lbs since mid July

woot
Lsprott
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Do any of you use / recommend a Keto application?

 
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