Looking for Input on Wrangler 4xe

7,056 Views | 48 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by jh0400
rme
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AG
I'm shopping for a Wrangler with a preference for the 3.6. No surprise that inventory is generally low, but some dealers have lots of 4xe's. I have a typical list of pros/cons.

How's the driving experience?
Roger350
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AG
I think someone on here has one, hopefully they can help. Everything I've read about all Plug-In Hybrids (PHEV) is they are a colossal waste if you do not have a way to plug them in at least every night. They are trading some of their gas/hybrid MPG away by carrying the extra weight of a larger battery, so if you don't charge them at least every night you might as well not bother with a PHEV versus a normal hybrid. This sentiment is apparently even more important for the Wrangler 4XE because it only gets about 25 miles of all electric range on a full charge and when the gas/hybrid operation kicks in after the battery is too drained for all-electric operation it actually gets 1 mpg worse mileage than the non-hybrid turbo 4 cylinder Wrangler.

If you typically drive more than 25 miles per day, and don't have a charging infrastructure at work to recoup some of the charge you use in the morning, there are certainly diminishing returns on the all electric range.

I have not driven a Wrangler 4XE, but I am very interested in them. I believe one of the big 3 car magazines said it is the fastest accelerating Wrangler short of the special edition Hemi 392 model. This makes perfect sense, since the instantaneous torque of the electric motor probably pairs nicely with the turbo 4. I would assume it eliminates any peakiness in the torque curve and makes it the most enjoyable driving experience, again short of the 392 edition.

I like the PHEV concept in general as a stop-gap technology, but they are a compromise, and like most compromises they offer both positives and negatives relative to ICE-only and all-electric vehicles.

But hey, Biden will give you a $7500 tax credit to buy oneā€¦

Disclaimer - We recently bought a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV and we love it. My wife is buying gas every six weeks now instead of every week.
'03ag
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Paging hedges1...
hedges1
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AG
I'm about to cross 1,000 miles on our current Wrangler Rubicon 4xe tank.
It's an absolute blast.

More later.
'03ag
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1000 miles? Bout time to trade isn't it?
hedges1
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'03ag said:

1000 miles? Bout time to trade isn't it?


Pretty much.
rme
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Thanks. We had a Pacifica for a few weeks this summer and it was great. Drove it to Galveston, so the all-electric aspect was done by the time we rolled through downtown Dallas.

I've driven the 3.6 and 3.6 etorque. Both are great and no surprise the etourque is a little quicker. A friend keeps saying "if you drive the PHEV, you'll buy it". With the tax credit, the PHEV Sahara is about $5,000 less than an equally-equipped 3.6/3.6 etorque.
Lynch
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I'm looking at them now. I got rid of my 392, and since it doesn't look like my f150 will get built I'm looking for a new daily (and stop driving the toy around).

It's hard finding them new with all of the options I want so I'm looking at a few slightly used ones.
555-PINF
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No input on the 4Xe, but I loved my three Wranglers.

One thing to watch out for if you're planning on keeping it a while, do some digging on jlwranglerforums.com - there have been issues with corrosion around the hinges due to contact between dissimilar metals. From the quick peek I just did, there is speculation that this *may* be fixed for 2023, but it has been an issue going back to 2019 (to the point of a recent class action lawsuit). I never saw it on my 2020 JL, but only had it 9 months.

TFL Truck's YouTube channel also has some good videos featuring the 4Xe. It's worth spending some time watching because they're fairly even handed, IMO.
Lynch
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I had 2 JLs no issues what so ever. Well aside from the small battery going out on the trail, they both were great.
hedges1
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AG
Be sure to do the math lease vs buy. The tax credit AND dealer state tax credits in December in Texas can make the 4xe leases extremely attractive. Low enough that off your want to buy at lease end, you're way ahead.
rme
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Interesting. Does that change at all if I buy/lease in a business?
Roger350
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I think the leasing company / manufacturer gets the 7500 credit if you lease.
rme
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I've stayed away from leases because I keep cars forever.....but leasing a first-gen 4xe in my business might be interesting. Limit technology risk and retain option to purchase.

htxag09
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For the lease comment, the only thing I'd say is make sure to look at the residual value. We just bought my wife's car and when we were looking at the lease options the residual value hadn't changed at all with the recent market, i.e., it was extremely low so all the risk of buying and the market dropping was still front loaded into the lease. Made way more sense to purchase.

This wasn't an EV so didn't take into consideration the credit. But not sure how much of a difference that'd make as you'd get it either way.
HollywoodBQ
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AG
The blue tow hooks are Super Kawaii
rme
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I wasn't seriously thinking about a lease, but a dealer just called and mentioned $12,500 in total credits (said $5,000 state credit) for business lease for 4xe. I asked him to show me the details with varying terms. Let's see what their residual looks like.

This wouldn't help me on this year's income taxes, but should have some benefits.

edit: $5,000 is only on vehicles 6,000lbs and heavier.
Mookie
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AG
We crush them on the secondary market. Not really high performers for us.
rme
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AG
I'm guessing you're in the car business. Are you talking about resale prices or a financing aspect?
Guitarsoup
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AG

Quote:

Everything I've read about all Plug-In Hybrids (PHEV) is they are a colossal waste if you do not have a way to plug them in at least every night.
Why would someone get a plug in car with no way to plug it in?
SquanchyAg
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Guitarsoup said:


Quote:

Everything I've read about all Plug-In Hybrids (PHEV) is they are a colossal waste if you do not have a way to plug them in at least every night.
Why would someone get a plug in car with no way to plug it in?
some people live in apartments and don't think about that before they buy one.
Roger350
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AG
Guitarsoup said:


Quote:

Everything I've read about all Plug-In Hybrids (PHEV) is they are a colossal waste if you do not have a way to plug them in at least every night.
Why would someone get a plug in car with no way to plug it in?


I agree it would seem idiotic, but as mentioned, apartments are a stumbling block, as are some garages that do not have enough dedicated outlets. Some people don't plan ahead on the power needs, and/or the space and proximity to said power. Having read a number of different forums on the subject it is not uncommon to see people asking all manner of stupid questions with regard to charging. Some of the magazines and forums make it sound like people with PHEVs may get "lazy" and decide not to rearrange their lives or do whatever minimal effort is required to facilitate charging on a regular basis, since the vehicles will operate as "normal" hybrids without being plugged in. I don't understand it. I ran dedicated 120 and 240 outlets to 2 different locations in my garage months in advance of taking delivery of our van, but I guess not everyone has the ability or the open space in their breaker panel to facilitate that level of preparation.

One must also consider that there is a subset of people that are attracted to EVs and PHEVs that lack the common sense God gave squirrels. I assume it is these same people that buy such vehicles without any for thought on how they will charge them.

I do not believe the OP, or anyone on this thread falls into the above subset, but it is these people that I assume the magazines are trying to inform when they write such advice, and I was simply passing it on as it is a common part of most articles on PHEVs.
Mookie
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AG
Resale
steve00
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I have over 15k miles on my 4xe, and the driving experience is great. The extra weight of the battery actually makes it feel more sturdy that a regular Jeep, with a lower center of gravity, and the extra power is great when you punch it.

I bought in 2021, so I got that sweet $7.5k back on my taxes for last year. It was super easy - just a couple of extra fields to fill in on TurboTax. It was before they raised the 4xe prices, so with the tax rebate mine was actually several thousand cheaper than the same options on a regular Jeep. If you lease, the $7.5k is immediately applied to your lease by the dealer, so your payments will be a lot lower than a normal Jeep. I believe you need to buy this month, as the tax rebate laws change in 2023, and you may get less or nothing for the 4xe after that.

Many people's use case makes a 4xe not make sense. You really need to have a short daily commute, and a garage or driveway spot where you can plug in every night. I didn't bother with installing an outlet for a Level 2 charger, which would charge it in about 2 hours. I plug into a regular outlet with the Level 1 charger that came with the Jeep, and it takes about 12 hours to charge. That works for me since it can charge all night.

My commute is 5 miles round trip, which uses about 20% of the battery on full electric. That leaves me with another 15 miles or so for running errands each day before I start having to use gas. I can go weeks without using gas if I don't go outside the city.

When I do take a trip, as soon as I get on the highway I switch it to e-save mode, where it runs on gas, and the battery doesn't lose any charge. The battery still helps out with extra HP when needed, but it maintains the charge level via regenerative braking. When on a trip, I never think about charging and just treat it like a gas Jeep. It does get about 1MPG worse than a gas Jeep on the highway, but I think that is worth it for the extra HP and torque. I more than make up for that with my daily driving that uses no gas.

Below is my trip meter after a nearly 2k mile road trip, followed by a month of driving locally on all battery. The other is more indicative of my usual mix when staying local. The .5 miles of gas was because I punched it hard enough once that the gas engine came on to give the acceleration I requested, even though I was in battery mode.

Charging doesn't seem to have much of an impact on my electricity bill either.

I am very happy with the 4xe and would recommend it to anyone that fits the very specific requirements for it to be useful.

steve00
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AG
One other thing - I keep it in 4Hi-auto all the time, as it increases the max HP and torque available, and is also nice for driving in ice, snow and rain. I have not noticed any decrease in battery performance due to this, probably because it keeps itself in 2wd 99% of the time.

Where you do see a big drop in battery performance is when it gets really cold and you use the heater. The heater eats up electricity, so my usual commute goes from using 20% to using 30-35% of the battery.

If it is only moderately cold, and you can remain comfortable with just the seat and steering wheel heaters, there is no noticeable drop in range.
rme
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steve00 said:

One other thing - I keep it in 4Hi-auto all the time, as it increases the max HP and torque available, and is also nice for driving in ice, snow and rain. I have not noticed any decrease in battery performance due to this, probably because it keeps itself in 2wd 99% of the time.

Where you do see a big drop in battery performance is when it gets really cold and you use the heater. The heater eats up electricity, so my usual commute goes from using 20% to using 30-35% of the battery.

If it is only moderately cold, and you can remain comfortable with just the seat and steering wheel heaters, there is no noticeable drop in range.
I appreciate your detailed responses, very helpful info!
rme
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AG
Asking for a friend.....is there an income limit for the $7,500 tax credit?
steve00
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AG
rme said:

Asking for a friend.....is there an income limit for the $7,500 tax credit?


There is no income limit on the current credit that expires at the end of the year. You just have to pay at least $7,500 in taxes for the year. If you have a job and can afford a new Jeep, then you surely pay way more than that every year.

I can't speak to the new rules for 2023. I think they are more complicated, with possible income caps and requirements for where the batteries are produced.

Lots of good info here, including debates on how the new laws will be implemented next year - https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/forums/4xe-plug-in-hybrid-electric-phev-wrangler-forum.40/
jh0400
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AG
Following since a Grand Cherokee 4xe Trailhawk will most likely be my next vehicle.
rme
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jh0400
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AG
jh0400 said:

Following since a Grand Cherokee 4xe Trailhawk will most likely be my next vehicle.


In a stunning turn of events, I got the green light to find one and pull the trigger as soon as possible in order to get the tax credit.
rme
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AG
Went with the 3.6e. Liked the 4xe, but it came down to (i) this will likely be handed down to my daughter in a few years, (ii) I'll give electric vehicles a few more years to mature, and (iii) the wheels on the 3.6 are much nicer.

I'll do a separate post on the buying experience. Spoiler and shocker (sarcasm intended), some dealers still use the same old tactics.

steve00
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AG
jh0400 said:

jh0400 said:

Following since a Grand Cherokee 4xe Trailhawk will most likely be my next vehicle.


In a stunning turn of events, I got the green light to find one and pull the trigger as soon as possible in order to get the tax credit.


Nice. After a long road trip earlier this year in a rental Audi SUV, I was reminded of how quiet and smooth regular SUVs are compared to Wranglers. I spent a month seriously thinking about trading in for a Grand Cherokee 4xe Trailhawk. It is no Audi, but still way more comfortable than a Wrangler, and still very capable off-road.

I ultimately decided to stick with my Wrangler, but I got pretty close to pulling the trigger. The GC Trailhawk is a very nice Jeep.
HollywoodBQ
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I switched back to my 1999 Ford Expedition for road trips to Vegas, Texas, etc.

The Wrangler is great around town and obviously off road but, driving more than 50 miles in one sitting is just a beating.
HollywoodBQ
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AG
steve00 said:

One other thing - I keep it in 4Hi-auto all the time, as it increases the max HP and torque available, and is also nice for driving in ice, snow and rain.
How does this work?
Is it rear wheel drive only until it feels the front wheels slip?
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