Ford is coming out with a new 7.3 gas engine for their Super Duty trucks. They're not disclosing the hp or the torque curve yet, but I wonder what it will be? What do you think about the engine with a 10 speed transmission?

What I find funny is that Chevy is coming out with a new 6.6 liter gasser that I believe puts out less hp and torque than their own 6.2 liter gasser in the half tons. Why not just beef up the crank, rods and pistons, and put a cam in it to move the torque curve lower in the rpm range in the 6.2 instead of developing an all new engine?

Krautag81 said:

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Ford is coming out with a new 7.3 gas engine for their Super Duty trucks. They're not disclosing the hp or the torque curve yet, but I wonder what it will be? What do you think about the engine with a 10 speed transmission?

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482/ 557 is the last I heard read, and it will be mated to the 10R140 trans. But thats all TBD. They won't make it more powerful than the Diesel, and they're gonna leave a lot on the table for the horsepower pissing match, so it may launch with like 420. Fleet buyers want a mechanically simple engine that can work and is 'low tech' in their mind.

The 6.2L will soldier on with the 'light duty' TorqShift-G (only for F250).

silverado_lover said:

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The 6.2 you refer to has a compression ratio of 11.5:1 and is recommended to run on 93. I'm sure the numbers of 420 hp @ 5600 / 460 ft-lb @ 4100 were obtained on 93.

The 6.6 has CR of 10.8:1 and I'm sure will be rated to run on 87. 401 hp @ 5200 / 464 ft-lb @ 4000. I suspect it'll have a flatter torque curve as well.

GM has always been conservative with their gas engines in HD trucks. They're built to survive life at WOT under load.

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my 6.0 in my 2500 ain't a screamer. but, it just keeps rolling on. would be nice to have a few more gears. but, other than that.

silverado_lover said:

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They've never utilized it in HD applications, but okay.

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silverado_lover said:

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The 6.2 you refer to has a compression ratio of 11.5:1 and is recommended to run on 93. I'm sure the numbers of 420 hp @ 5600 / 460 ft-lb @ 4100 were obtained on 93.

The 6.6 has CR of 10.8:1 and I'm sure will be rated to run on 87. 401 hp @ 5200 / 464 ft-lb @ 4000. I suspect it'll have a flatter torque curve as well.

GM has always been conservative with their gas engines in HD trucks. They're built to survive life at WOT under load.

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Understand, but it seems to me that they could have just changed the internals of the 6.2 to achieve whatever CR they wanted and used beefier parts without development of another complete engine. Is the 6.6 block structurally stouter than the 6.2? The additional 400cc's (if it is actually that much) is only making an additional 4 ft-lb of torque. Seems very under powered for the larger size.

I suspect it's the same block as they have a common bore. The 6.6 has a 3.86" stroke compared to the 6.2's 3.622".

To drop the CR that much while increasing the stroke, the 6.6 heads will have a larger combustion chamber and possibly dished pistons.

So in short, different crank, connecting rods, heads, cam, and possibly pistons.

Giggles in gasser

Any idea when the 2020 super duty will hit the lots?

Sodbuster05 said:

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Any idea when the 2020 super duty will hit the lots?

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Looks like mid to late November time frame, with production reportedly to start early that month.

Sodbuster05 said:

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Any idea when the 2020 super duty will hit the lots?

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Job #1 is scheduled for 11/4/2019 at KTP, and 11/18 at OHAP.

Any idea how much of a premium they're going to charge for the 7.3 vs the 6.2?

saltydog13 said:

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Any idea how much of a premium they're going to charge for the 7.3 vs the 6.2?

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No idea yet. I'm guessing 1500-2220 ish.

Is it that much more of an improvement to wait and get the 7.3? Looking at getting a gas 3/4 ton

The 6.2L will not get the 10 speed.

I didn't know dodge trucks had 1000 lb. ft of torque. That's nuts. What a world we live in.

clarythedrill said:

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silverado_lover said:

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The 6.2 you refer to has a compression ratio of 11.5:1 and is recommended to run on 93. I'm sure the numbers of 420 hp @ 5600 / 460 ft-lb @ 4100 were obtained on 93.

The 6.6 has CR of 10.8:1 and I'm sure will be rated to run on 87. 401 hp @ 5200 / 464 ft-lb @ 4000. I suspect it'll have a flatter torque curve as well.

GM has always been conservative with their gas engines in HD trucks. They're built to survive life at WOT under load.

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Understand, but it seems to me that they could have just changed the internals of the 6.2 to achieve whatever CR they wanted and used beefier parts without development of another complete engine. Is the 6.6 block structurally stouter than the 6.2? The additional 400cc's (if it is actually that much) is only making an additional 4 ft-lb of torque. Seems very under powered for the larger size.

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Peak numbers are not nearly as important as the curve. The bigger motor is going to make better torque at low rpms when the CR, fuel, and cam specs are similar. Gas engines without boost, that need to be super durable and run on 87 octane need big cubic inches to make good low rpm torque.

Quote:

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Ford revealed horsepower and torque numbers for the 7.3L engine. It's rated for 430 horsepower at 5500 rpm and 475 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm.

Ford wisely stayed with a pushrod design with a forged steel crankshaft with extra-large main bearings, but added a variable-displacement oil pump and piston cooling jets for better temperature management under heavy load.

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350hp/468 tq in the F450-750.

1agswitchin4lanes said:

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Quote:

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Ford revealed horsepower and torque numbers for the 7.3L engine. It's rated for 430 horsepower at 5500 rpm and 475 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm.

Ford wisely stayed with a pushrod design with a forged steel crankshaft with extra-large main bearings, but added a variable-displacement oil pump and piston cooling jets for better temperature management under heavy load.

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350hp/468 tq in the F450-750.

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In fleet duty, I guess you have to plan for lots of WOT

430/475 is a little less than I thought it would be but is still best in class and with the flat torque curve it has, will probably feel pretty strong in a regular cab 2wd F250. Thinking Ford may be holding some output back for future growth.

Pretty big meh on the numbers release if you're a 250/350 buyer.

jbeaman88 said:

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430/475 is a little less than I thought it would be but is still best in class and with the flat torque curve it has, will probably feel pretty strong in a regular cab 2wd F250. Thinking Ford may be holding some output back for future growth.

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Yeah, I'm not a fan of peak numbers, because they tell such a small part of the story. For an industrial focused motor like this, those are pretty big numbers. It's got a big fat low rpm torque curve that's much more important that peak numbers. I've heard that it has 400lb/ft and 1,500rpms. All while under much less stress than say the ecoboost motor at the same torque output.

You can bet that it's a very low rpm focused cam, which is why it only has 430 hp; although, 430 hp is a lot for something with the equivalent of an "RV cam".

Now pop a hot cam in there, LT headers/high flow cats, valve springs, port the heads, put a high flow intake manifold and throttle body on it and you are going to have some serious naturally aspirated HP. Higher compression pistons would make it even better. Lower compression, Forge the rotating assembly, throw a 4.5L whipple on it and party! You'd have more torque than you could put to the ground without some serious drag tires.

Never mind. Didn't see the whole torque curve

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2019/08/01/ford-73-liter-V8-best-in-class-gas-power-torque-heavy-duty-pickup.html

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-trucks/2020-ford-super-duty-and-commercial-truck-powertrains-filling-in-the-details/ar-AAFaWY3?li=BBnb4R5

Since Dodge and GM have effectively abandoned producing a van cutaway chassis for class C's and the 6.8 V10 has to rev so high on even small hills - I'm interested in this pushrod engine. Kinda like a big LS - right?

From the article -

A dyno-certified version of the 7.3-liter V8 producing 350 horsepower at 3,900 rpm and 468 lb.-ft. of torque at 3,900 rpm will be standard on F-450 chassis cab, F-550, the new F-600, F-650 and F-750 Medium Duty trucks, and F-53 and F-59 stripped chassis models. The upgraded E-Series will also feature the 7.3-liter V8. An optional calibration intended to help customers reduce their fuel consumption will also be offered; more information will be made available at a later date.

For you gearheads - how would they do this de-rated hp and what do you think the "optional calibration" would entail? I'd just like to go up a hill and not see the RPM's have to go to 4300. Also, the e450 won't get the new 10 speed. Staying with the 6 speed Torque Shift 6R140.

I know gas mpg in an RV is a minor concern since you're moving a small house but that the old 6.8 just seemed to be an engine they made work after changing valves and fixing the spark plug stuff.

Incorrect, I'd never lower drop compression lower than OE levels.

I was assuming they're using fairly high compression like the coyote. Drop it a little for blower applications to push more air on pump gas.

I suspect it'll be in the 10.5:1-10.8:1 range like the 6.6 is supposed to be.

With the ease of modern tuning, I'd rather just pull timing out of it rather than swap heads on with a larger compression chamber. This way if you introduce e85, meth, or better intercooling, you can just bring some timing back in.

Provided the block is stout and the aftermarket has good standalone wiring solutions/performance parts, the 7.3 will be a popular engine swap.

Haha yeah hadn't really thought about it that way but you're right. Kind of weird