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Legal action to block forthcoming shelter in place?

8,967 Views | 67 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by P.H. Dexippus
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In reply to BohunkAg • 4:38p, 3/23/20
Liquid Wrench
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In reply to RM1993 • 4:40p, 3/23/20
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Yet somehow today otherwise rational people feel like their constitutional rights are more important than the safety of their fellow man....


Ftr, I've always believed that, not just today.
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HouAggie2007
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5:10p, 3/23/20
I enjoy them using the expected morality rate with social distancing/isolation/etc as a reason to not do it
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TheEyeGuy
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In reply to P.H. Dexippus • 4:12a, 3/24/20
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Mr. AGSPRT04 said:
Assuming the County Judge and/or Mayor issue orders similar to what we saw from Dallas yesterday, there seems to be pretty clear 1st and 5th Amendment infringements. Is there interest in seeking an injunction or removal petition, or already an effort underway?
OP, I would seriously be down for this.
Owner of Texian Firearms:
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US importer/distributor of Rudolph Optics
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GCRanger
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6:44a, 3/24/20
AG
Will they close the county parks? We've been using then a lot more recently to get kids out to go exploring and get exercise.
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Tom Hagen
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In reply to Liquid Wrench • 7:14a, 3/24/20
AG
Body By Fisher said:
Quote:
Yet somehow today otherwise rational people feel like their constitutional rights are more important than the safety of their fellow man....


Ftr, I've always believed that, not just today.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for the promise of security deserve neither.
We have seen this movie before. Government over-hypes a threat as an excuse to grab more of our freedoms. When the “threat” is over, however, they never give us our freedoms back...Ron Paul



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TulaneAg
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7:35a, 3/24/20
Can someone not in favor of some measure of effort to reduce the spread of this, or someone who thinks this is overblown hysteria please explain what you're seeing in Italy in your own words?

Is Italy fake news and what's being reported is not really happening?
Is the virus spread via Ferrari or olive oil or something oddly specific to Italy that we don't need to worry about?
Do they have too many Republicans, or a crazy Democrat leader that caused this rapid spread and we don't have that mix so it can't be replicated here?
Are they smartly culling a few thousand of the weakest so their retail industry and overall economy will stay strong, or at least bounce back quicker?
Is this what you get when you play soccer instead of real American football?

You're the President leading 325 million Americans... give me your speech for your business-as-usual strategy.
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HvilleAggie
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In reply to TulaneAg • 9:11a, 3/24/20
AG
I wont pretend to be the president, but my wife works for a global company and she works closely with several people in Italy, and she conveys to me that it is all VERY real. You can blame socialized medicine if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that their healthcare system is COMPLETELY overwhelmed and doctors are basically forced to triage patients at the door.

Meaning, if you are over 60 and have an advanced case, you aren't getting a ventilator because that probably won't even save you. THIS situation is what we are trying to avoid in the United States. We have excellent hospitals but it doesn't change the math that if everyone gets sick at once, we DO NOT have the resources to keep up.
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jc1402
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9:32a, 3/24/20
AG
I get the 1st amendment aspect, but how does this relate to the 5th amendment? Did OP mean 4th?
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P.H. Dexippus
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In reply to jc1402 • 10:10a, 3/24/20
AG
Shutting down a business or it's storefront for a perceived public benefit could be a governmental taking. That falls under the 5th Amendment.
https://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/amendments/5/essays/151/takings-clause
"[When I was a kid,] I wanted to be a pirate. Thank God no one took me seriously and scheduled me for eye removal and peg leg surgery."- Bill Maher
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Bunbury
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10:35a, 3/24/20
AG
Even though the olympics are postponed, good to see that I can come here and get my fix with lots of great mental gymnastics on this thread.
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to P.H. Dexippus • 10:39a, 3/24/20
the issue there is that government exercising is police power does not qualify as a "taking" that requires compensation. those are extremely difficult cases to make.


if this goes much past the April 3 date, then you will see legitimate claims that the government is overstepping its police power, but the remedy there would getting rid of the law, not compensation.
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 11:46a, 3/24/20
BMX Bandit
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In reply to [removed post] • 11:53a, 3/24/20
Agree. But even that will be the balancing of police power vs those rights.

Suit filed today has no chance to win. A suit filed in 2 weeks? May have legs


(The caveat to this IMO is 2nd amendment. If some retail can be open, what the legitimate reason gun stores can't be? I think a good case may be made on that now)
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P.H. Dexippus
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3:56p, 3/24/20
AG
https://www.readyharris.org/Portals/60/documents/03-24-20-Stay-Home-Work-Safe-Order-by-the-County-Judge.pdf?ver=2020-03-24-150732-793
"[When I was a kid,] I wanted to be a pirate. Thank God no one took me seriously and scheduled me for eye removal and peg leg surgery."- Bill Maher
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86 Tex Ag
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12:59a, 3/25/20
AG
Fed govt uses commerce clause and taxing/spending clause.

State govt and other political subdivisions use police powers to protect the health, safety, morals, and general welfare of the people.

Several US Supreme Court cases supporting this kind of action by the city and county.
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86 Tex Ag
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1:01a, 3/25/20
AG
https://www.law.uh.edu/healthlaw/HLPIBenchBook.pdf
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AndesAg92
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In reply to [removed post] • 8:24a, 3/25/20
AG
Go put the internet down for a few days chief. Maybe go take a walk outside and breathe.
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Al Bula
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In reply to AndesAg92 • 8:41a, 3/25/20
AG
When I read that post, I had to remind myself people are dealing with this pandemic in their own weird ways.
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Texan_Aggie
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In reply to [removed post] • 9:54a, 3/25/20
AG
You should take this case on pro bono, might be a good use of your time.
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In reply to Texan_Aggie • 10:03a, 3/25/20
Texan_Aggie
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In reply to [removed post] • 10:24a, 3/25/20
AG
Will do. Though my expectation is that given the spirit of the law to promote social/physical distancing and we've released a bunch of prisoners already, I'm not sure the scope of this is going after individuals to throw in a jail cell together.
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In reply to [removed post] • 10:29a, 3/25/20
TheEyeGuy
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 12:47p, 3/25/20
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BMX Bandit said:
Agree. But even that will be the balancing of police power vs those rights.

Suit filed today has no chance to win. A suit filed in 2 weeks? May have legs


(The caveat to this IMO is 2nd amendment. If some retail can be open, what the legitimate reason gun stores can't be? I think a good case may be made on that now)
Well, we're open today. If they want to try to make us stop, I'll be ready to hammer Hildalgo (with a lawsuit, of course).
Owner of Texian Firearms:
Dealer in Firearms, Optics, Night Vision and other shooting accessories.
US importer/distributor of Rudolph Optics
Supporting bad financial decisions since 2015
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In reply to TheEyeGuy • 12:53p, 3/25/20
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1:58p, 3/25/20
P.H. Dexippus
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In reply to [removed post] • 2:02p, 3/25/20
AG
The majorities on the 1st and 14th are now Democrat, I would not be so sure that there is a panel eager to take a shot at County leadership.
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2:10p, 3/25/20
Panama Red
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2:10p, 3/25/20
AG
You'd file this case in federal court so it won't matter what the 1st or 14th think.

I'd love to help you on this EyeGuy, but if it becomes necessary the truth is you can likely get this handled for free by one of the Second Amendment advocacy groups.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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2:45p, 3/25/20
AG
I can't help but recall Davos Seaworth starting around the 1 minute mark when I read this thread.

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Ragoo
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In reply to RM1993 • 7:40p, 3/25/20
AG
RM1993 said:
Gap said:
RM1993 said:
Gap said:
RM1993 said:
Sasappis said:
Head Ninja In Charge said:
Like many others have said, it really is just formalizing what most of us have already been doing over the past 8 days. The only real change (a good one) is that it'll prevent these dumb**** kids from partying en masse on the beach like we saw during spring break.


So you mean it will reduce the right to assemble? I wonder if there are any rules about that.
How dare the govt infringe upon your right to infect whoever the **** you want....
What is your expected end date on being able to get out and "infect whoever the **** you want.."?
I don't have one and nothing that has been proscribed so far prevents you or anyone else from being able to get out and take a walk or go to the grocery store or gas station.....yet you somehow feel like your constitutional rights have been infringed upon and you should have unfettered access to everything as you had before....

Governments have always had the authority to clamp down during states of national emergency. Would you have kept your lights on during WWII when air raid sirens went off simply because the govt can't constitutionally tell you to shut them off? Of course not! Yet somehow today otherwise rational people feel like their constitutional rights are more important than the safety of their fellow man....
Sheep don't ask questions either.

Can you describe what you are trying to accomplish? Are we "flattening the curve" and doing this for 6 months and still being over ICU capacity for 12-18 months? Are we sheltering in place until the virus has been eliminated from the United States?

If the result is global depression, poverty, rampant unemployment, hunger, suicide, increased violence is that acceptible? And for a virus with a mortality rate expected to be 0.5% and under.
I'm sure everyone involved would like to give hard answers to your questions, but this is uncharted territory and everyone is doing their best to work off of the scant information and data available.

But, by all means keep putting yourself first...
uncharted? My grandmother told me they did similar in 1946 due to the polio outbreak.
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BMX Bandit
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1:25p, 3/27/20
on the gun stores, Paxton weighed in:

Subsections 229.001(a) and 236.002(a) of the Local Government Code prohibit a municipality or county from adopting regulations related to the transfer, possession, or ownership of firearms, or commerce in firearms. These provisions apply to municipal and county regulation "notwithstanding any other law." Thus, while municipal and county officials possess general emergency authority to control the movement of persons and the occupancy of premises in a local disaster area under Government Code section 418.108, such orders may not regulate or restrict the sale of firearms.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/sites/default/files/opinion-files/opinion/2020/kp-0296.pdf
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P.H. Dexippus
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10:50a, 12/30/20
AG
Seems like there were a lot of folks eager to embrace government over reach in March. Where did they all go?
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P.H. Dexippus
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2:52p, 12/30/20
AG
Thanks for the text message command to cancel all gatherings and not celebrate NYE with anyone outside of my household, Comandante.
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