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07ag
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cone said:

WWII rationing wasn't left to the individual's opinion on the efficacy and requirement of such measures
thank goodness for that, half the folks in this thread care only for themselves and not at all for the common good. i keep hoping they're just trolling, but it doesn't seem to be that way
https://ts.la/eric59704
Daddy-O5
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sts7049 said:

if you want to not wear masks, it should be OK to do so. but define what repercussions there are if it's proven they transmitted or spread the virus.

or, just don't be a jackass and wear one. stop dissecting everything into "stop infringing muh liberties" or "well 9 year olds can spread it too so this is pointless"

society has lost the ability to think rationally.
I certainly think there's a rational argument to make about the efficacy of loosely defined masks with arbitrary age parameters. We can sit here and debate it for pages I'm sure, but your own post does not somehow justify your own final conclusion.

I also think that society take "muh liberties" for granted and have forgotten how, or are ok with not taking responsibility for your own life and making your own decisions (also considering how they will impact those around you) without the government "mandating" those decisions for us.

I'll reiterate a post I made above, I think it's well in your right to scream from the mountain tops to your friends, families and fellow TexAgs posters that we should all wear masks so we can save the world, and if you don't you're a selfish jerk who's ok with old people dying. But the moment you imply that we should let the government dictate our daily lives (we're well beyond that) in the interest of "safety" or "security" you lose me.

aTm2004
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cajunaggie08 said:

considering strep is a bacterial infection spread by coming in contact with the mucus of someone else with it, either your food delivery guy got pissed at you and left you a yellow surprise or someone else in your home has some explaining to do.
So, a business that's struggling to stay open spit in food when I went to pick it up? Or you think one of my 3 kids (7, 4, and 17 months) or my wife who has only left the house to take the kids on a walk or to go pick up the groceries at the HEB less than 2 miles from the house is screwing around?

https://www.cdc.gov/groupastrep/diseases-public/strep-throat.html
Quote:

How You Get Strep Throat
Group A strep live in the nose and throat and can easily spread to other people. It is important to know that all infected people do not have symptoms or seem sick. People who are infected spread the bacteria by coughing or sneezing, which creates small respiratory droplets that contain the bacteria.
People can get sick if they:
  • Breathe in those droplets
  • Touch something with droplets on it and then touch their mouth or nose
  • Drink from the same glass or eat from the same plate as a sick person
  • Touch sores on the skin caused by group A strep (impetigo)

Oh, like some groceries or something.

What's that? Oh ****, you don't say...
Quote:

Spread from contact with contaminated surfaces or objects

It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus.
jetch17
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cone
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for example, when people say they get it and they initially just feel like ****, it's becoming more clear that in some cases (that are on the more severe trajectory) they already have pneumonia and are hypoxic but their body is compensating for it (although they remain hypoxic)

in other words toughing this thing out isn't really a good option in a not insignificant minority of cases, even among the normally healthy

it's a crazy disease
Texaggie7nine
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I'm sure ole Ben would be rolling in his grave if he knew citizens were required to wear a mask when out in public for a month during a pandemic because that is DEFINITELY the kind of liberty he was talking about.

7nine
Ag_07
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FWIW...I had to pick up something from the Academy at 45N and West Rd yesterday.

In that WalMart parking lot right there, there are a handful of folks with pop up tents and tables peddling N95 masks, homemade masks, hand sanitizer, and other various supplies off their tailgates.

Almost like a pop up corona flea market right there in the parking lot.
Daddy-O5
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Texaggie7nine said:

I'm sure ole Ben would be rolling in his grave if he knew citizens were required to wear a mask when out in public for a month during a pandemic because that is DEFINITELY the kind of liberty he was talking about.
You don't understand that we're well beyond just masks; like literally telling us who is allowed to work, assemble, earn a paycheck support their families, then I don't think we're quite on the same page here.
schmellba99
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aTm2004 said:

sts7049 said:

if you want to not wear masks, it should be OK to do so. but define what repercussions there are if it's proven they transmitted or spread the virus.

or, just don't be a jackass and wear one. stop dissecting everything into "stop infringing muh liberties" or "well 9 year olds can spread it too so this is pointless"

society has lost the ability to think rationally.
Maybe if government hasn't proven time and time again that they'd continue to push boundaries when given even an inch, people wouldn't think like this.

You're right, society has lost the ability to think rationally. Fear has really taken over for a lot of people and they are willing to give up whatever the government wants to make them feel just a little safer.
This x1000

We have been conditioned over decades now to think that the government knows best and that our rights are a convenience only. Basically we are turning into the very thing that our founders fought vehemently against and who specifically designed the government against - and that is a society were the collective outweighs the individual and where rights aren't actually rights, but rather permissions granted - and taken away at a whim - by the all knowing and overpowering government.

Can't wait to see what they decide we must do as subservient serfs next, all under the guise of "safety". And how many people will lap it up and lobby for more and more restrictions because they individually fear something, so we must all individually fear something.
aTm2004
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cone said:

Quote:

You're right, society has lost the ability to think rationally.
we barely understand this disease

it's hard to be as rational as you expect in normal circumstances given the unknowns

there aren't any proven treatments and they're just now figuring out (at least stateside) that this thing isn't even presenting as classic pneumonia. that you could have severe pneumonia and hypoxia and not be short of breath.

i'd say high levels of caution are justified until they even figure out the typical disease progression, let alone a therapeutic
So, be led by fear? It seems as each day passes, we learn more and more about it and it not being as bad as originally thought.

The initial results from the first large-scale study tracking the spread of the coronavirus in the county found that 4.1% of adults have antibodies to the virus in their blood, an indication of past exposure.

A pilot study revealed that almost one-third of 200 people in Massachusetts tested for coronavirus antibodies came up positive.
Texaggie7nine
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Also from your link

Quote:

Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes or talks.
7nine
aTm2004
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RealTalk said:

aTm2004 said:

RealTalk said:

MiniShrike said:

Isn't exercising precisely when you're more likely to aerosolize potentially infected droplets?
If you're exercising by yourself, who are you going to infect?
If I'm running on a trail and pass another coming the other way.
People should still maintain social distancing. If you're aware of your surroundings, you should be able to do that.

But I get where y'all are coming from about being imposed upon by the government. I've been pretty diligent with the quarantine and taking measures to protect myself and my family. I understand there are a lot of people who don't feel the same way. I think it's dumb but just my opinion. Do what y'all feel is right.
Sometimes you're not able to due to the width of the trail or crossing a bridge on a greenbelt.
aTm2004
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07ag said:

cone said:

WWII rationing wasn't left to the individual's opinion on the efficacy and requirement of such measures
thank goodness for that, half the folks in this thread care only for themselves and not at all for the common good. i keep hoping they're just trolling, but it doesn't seem to be that way
The other half can't admit to themselves that their selfishness is driving the opposite narrative on what needs to be done.
Ciboag96
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jetch17 said:




Perfect. Those poop particles that make their journey through skivs and jeans to your nose are probably 1000x larger than a Covid-19 virus.
Texaggie7nine
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J.D. c/o 05 said:

Texaggie7nine said:

I'm sure ole Ben would be rolling in his grave if he knew citizens were required to wear a mask when out in public for a month during a pandemic because that is DEFINITELY the kind of liberty he was talking about.
You don't understand that we're well beyond just masks; like literally telling us who is allowed to work, assemble, earn a paycheck support their families, then I don't think we're quite on the same page here.
You can make the case when we are talking about government shut downs of private business and forcing people to stay inside no matter what precautions they take, sure.

But right now we are talking about simply being required to put a covering over your nose and mouth while out in public. So that is the page.
7nine
schmellba99
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Texaggie7nine said:

I'm sure ole Ben would be rolling in his grave if he knew citizens were required to wear a mask when out in public for a month during a pandemic because that is DEFINITELY the kind of liberty he was talking about.


Good thing you aren't grasping the point!

Because I guarantee you old Ben would be rolling in his grave or taking up arms at the idea that the government can selectively close businesses, decide who is essential and who is not, tell people that they cannot make money to buy food, arrest people for playing in a park, close public lands for absolutely no reason - and do everything possible to justify it through government control.

But hey, let's just ignore that and continue to be a good little soldier and follow the orders of a 29 year old idiot that other idiots elected into office.
aTm2004
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Texaggie7nine said:

I'm sure ole Ben would be rolling in his grave if he knew citizens were required to wear a mask when out in public for a month during a pandemic because that is DEFINITELY the kind of liberty he was talking about.


It's the history of the government taking a mile when you give them an inch. Would you be OK if the government required you to get a vaccine when one became available?
Texaggie7nine
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7nine
aTm2004
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Texaggie7nine said:

Also from your link

Quote:

Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes or talks.

So, women and sales people are more likely to spread it?
Daddy-O5
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Texaggie7nine said:

J.D. c/o 05 said:

Texaggie7nine said:

I'm sure ole Ben would be rolling in his grave if he knew citizens were required to wear a mask when out in public for a month during a pandemic because that is DEFINITELY the kind of liberty he was talking about.
You don't understand that we're well beyond just masks; like literally telling us who is allowed to work, assemble, earn a paycheck support their families, then I don't think we're quite on the same page here.
You can make the case when we are talking about government shut downs of private business and forcing people to stay inside no matter what precautions they take sure.

But right now we are talking about simply being required to put a covering over your nose and mouth while out in public. So that is the page.
Which is yet another step in a succession of oversteps by the government, as menial as it may seem under the microscope in which you are choosing to view it.
BohunkAg
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sts7049 said:

if you want to not wear masks, it should be OK to do so. but define what repercussions there are if it's proven they transmitted or spread the virus.

or, just don't be a jackass and wear one. stop dissecting everything into "stop infringing muh liberties" or "well 9 year olds can spread it too so this is pointless"

society has lost the ability to think rationally.


Right. Why is everything an absolute these days. Sheesh.
Ag_07
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This reads like a Forum 16 tin foil hat thread.
Texaggie7nine
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aTm2004 said:

Texaggie7nine said:

I'm sure ole Ben would be rolling in his grave if he knew citizens were required to wear a mask when out in public for a month during a pandemic because that is DEFINITELY the kind of liberty he was talking about.


It's the history of the government taking a mile when you give them an inch. Would you be OK if the government required you to get a vaccine when one became available?
This a long, complicated question. Would I be ok with it if it was just made a blanket requirement for every citizen? no. Chances are if there were an effective vaccine with no serious side effects, enough people would take it that it would create an effective heard immunity. Also, chances are that it would be an annual shot like the flu.
7nine
Texaggie7nine
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aTm2004 said:

Texaggie7nine said:

Also from your link

Quote:

Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes or talks.

So, women and sales people are more likely to spread it?
I'm 100% down with a gag order on all sales people.
7nine
RK
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the gov't feels the need to overreach on a consistent basis because people are too dumb, in general, to act rationally and responsibly. i don't see either of those things changing anytime soon.
HotardAg07
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For me, requiring masks while in public places sits squarely in the middle here. Of course I am concerned about government overreach, but in THIS SPECIFIC issue, that concern is balanced out with my desire to get back to work safely.

You can quibble over the specifics of the ordinance, but we haven't even seen it yet. Broadly, this is a good idea.
Velvet Jones
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RealTalk said:

MiniShrike said:

Isn't exercising precisely when you're more likely to aerosolize potentially infected droplets?
If you're exercising by yourself, who are you going to infect?
But what about those who aren't? Why are the mobs of people walking their dogs and running in common green spaces exempt?

htxag09
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Brad06ag said:

htxag09 said:

XpressAg09 said:

cajunaggie08 said:


unless its a n95 it aint going to stop **** from getting to you.
So 'homemade masks' are pointless then?

Depends on the material. I was listening to a podcast and homemade masks from shirts and other clothes made of cotton are, in fact pointless. The quality we like most in clothes is breathability. Guess what, that also lets all germs in, including the virus. They said it actually tested to have 0 benefit. They did said the only caveat would be if it prevented you from touching your face. However, I see more masks around people's chins than their faces so doubt it does that either.
I'm curious about your 0 benefit link.

Most of the stuff i've seen show cotton at 30-50% effectiveness. In a medical setting where you have known contact, that is pretty terrible. In a public setting, that can actually do a lot. Much less concentrated virus counts in the air, filtering 50% out can effectively stop infection.
Science Vs. Coronavirus Masks & Ibuprofen is the podcast I listened to.

They interviewed Dr. Rachel Jones, PhD University of Utah, specialist of viral respiratory infections.
Quote:

A lot of materials just aren't made to stop viruses. Like thinking of T-shirt material. We like them because they're airy - and they don't make us sweat too much And viruses can roll right through them.

RJ All of those properties that we like in our T shirt make them problematic to use as a mask. Because small particles have been demonstrated in experimental studies to move readily through cloth that is used in a mask like a bandana or shirt
They also discussed this study, Trial study of cloth vs. medical masks
Quote:

Laboratory tests showed the penetration of particles through the cloth masks to be very high (97%) compared with medical masks (44%) (used in trial) and 3M 9320 N95 (<0.01%), 3M Vflex 9105 N95 (0.1%).
Quote:

Table 2 shows the intention-to-treat analysis. The rate of CRI was highest in the cloth mask arm, followed by the control arm, and lowest in the medical mask arm. The same trend was seen for ILI and laboratory tests confirmed viral infections. In intention-to-treat analysis, ILI was significantly higher among HCWs in the cloth masks group (RR=13.25 and 95% CI 1.74 to 100.97), compared with the medical masks group. The rate of ILI was also significantly higher in the cloth masks arm (RR=3.49 and 95% CI 1.00 to 12.17), compared with the control arm. Other outcomes were not statistically significant between the three arms.

Another study referenced: In Vivo Protective Performance of N95 Respirator and Surgical Facemask
Quote:

viruses may be able to penetrate or spread through the mask in the form of liquid diffusion by a capillary effect, particularly since the expired air will most likely wet the mask...During repeated breathing actions, a mask also becomes a collector of viruses, particularly when its outer surface is exposed to contaminated droplets. Study compared typical surgical masks to N95 masks and found that N95 respirators provide higher in-vivo filtration efficiency of 97% with significant reduction of air permeability and water vapor permeability. Compared to normal surgical masks/respirators, the nano-masks can provide additional protective functions in stopping capillary diffusion and antibacterial activities.
BohunkAg
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By the way, these counter spread measures are pointless without some steps to reopening.
aTm2004
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Texaggie7nine said:

aTm2004 said:

Texaggie7nine said:

I'm sure ole Ben would be rolling in his grave if he knew citizens were required to wear a mask when out in public for a month during a pandemic because that is DEFINITELY the kind of liberty he was talking about.


It's the history of the government taking a mile when you give them an inch. Would you be OK if the government required you to get a vaccine when one became available?
This a long, complicated question. Would I be ok with it if it was just made a blanket requirement for every citizen? no. Chances are if there were an effective vaccine with no serious side effects, enough people would take it that it would create an effective heard immunity. Also, chances are that it would be an annual shot like the flu.
No, it's not a complicated question. Government has already made many small business owners close their business. They have arrested people for playing catch with their kids, ticketed teens playing soccer with friends (son of one of our friends), and told people they can't travel to other homes they own. Now, in order to open up, we are required to do something else. Given what they've already done, when there's a vaccine, they are on the path to make it a requirement to get.
Texaggie7nine
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aTm2004 said:

Texaggie7nine said:

aTm2004 said:

Texaggie7nine said:

I'm sure ole Ben would be rolling in his grave if he knew citizens were required to wear a mask when out in public for a month during a pandemic because that is DEFINITELY the kind of liberty he was talking about.


It's the history of the government taking a mile when you give them an inch. Would you be OK if the government required you to get a vaccine when one became available?
This a long, complicated question. Would I be ok with it if it was just made a blanket requirement for every citizen? no. Chances are if there were an effective vaccine with no serious side effects, enough people would take it that it would create an effective heard immunity. Also, chances are that it would be an annual shot like the flu.
No, it's not a complicated question. Government has already made many small business owners close their business. They have arrested people for playing catch with their kids, ticketed teens playing soccer with friends (son of one of our friends), and told people they can't travel to other homes they own. Now, in order to open up, we are required to do something else. Given what they've already done, when there's a vaccine, they are on the path to make it a requirement to get.
Sorry, I don't see that. I mean if it were possible to be a vaccine like measles and mumps where kids could get it and be good the rest of their lives, maybe, but that most likely will not be the case. If that were the case, then you could make the case that the private sector could make the vaccine essentially required to live a normal life. Every private business could require you be vaccinated in order to be on their property. We could come up with a privately accredited organization that would distribute ID cards verifying that you had been vaccinated and you would have to show it to enter every public place like stores, movie theaters, airplanes. That would essentially happen if government didn't do it.

None of that will happen though because antibodies for this virus don't seem to stick around in our bodies for long.

7nine
BowSowy
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Steps to reopen have already begun. I think Abbott has another press conference on Monday outlining more steps.
aTm2004
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Texaggie7nine said:

aTm2004 said:

Texaggie7nine said:

aTm2004 said:

Texaggie7nine said:

I'm sure ole Ben would be rolling in his grave if he knew citizens were required to wear a mask when out in public for a month during a pandemic because that is DEFINITELY the kind of liberty he was talking about.


It's the history of the government taking a mile when you give them an inch. Would you be OK if the government required you to get a vaccine when one became available?
This a long, complicated question. Would I be ok with it if it was just made a blanket requirement for every citizen? no. Chances are if there were an effective vaccine with no serious side effects, enough people would take it that it would create an effective heard immunity. Also, chances are that it would be an annual shot like the flu.
No, it's not a complicated question. Government has already made many small business owners close their business. They have arrested people for playing catch with their kids, ticketed teens playing soccer with friends (son of one of our friends), and told people they can't travel to other homes they own. Now, in order to open up, we are required to do something else. Given what they've already done, when there's a vaccine, they are on the path to make it a requirement to get.
Sorry, I don't see that. I mean if it were possible to be a vaccine like measles and mumps where kids could get it and be good the rest of their lives, maybe, but that most likely will not be the case. If that were the case, then you could make the case that the private sector could make the vaccine essentially required to live a normal life. Every private business could require you be vaccinated in order to be on their property. We could come up with a privately accredited organization that would distribute ID cards verifying that you had been vaccinated and you would have to show it to enter every public place like stores, movie theaters, airplanes. That would essentially happen if government didn't do it.

None of that will happen though because antibodies for this virus don't seem to stick around in our bodies for long.


Private business =/= government.

With a private business, if they had that requirement, I could choose to not go there.
aggiemike02
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you got strep from your kids, and you know it.
Texaggie7nine
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Ya, and you would never be able to fly anywhere, have to order everything online and never go into any private business except for a small subset, couldn't leave the country, ect. All to prove your stupid little point.

But thankfully that won't happen. At least not with this virus.
7nine
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