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Astros Fans, I want to get your opinion

8,710 Views | 75 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by schmellba99
Jay95
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I am a huge Astros fans. Go to tons of games. This whole cheating scandal has really got me down about the Astros . I'm curious to y'all s thoughts on it?
I'm torn. I know it was wrong, but if other teams are doing it, don't you have to do it to compete on the same level?

I feel the Astros are taking the brunt when most likely there are multiple teams that have done this.

Ultimately I wish AJ would have just said, "I'm in charge, and we are not doing this" I think he is the one to blame the most. Although it sounds like Beltran was the leader and Kingpin of the whole operation.
Mikeyshooter
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The defense that other teams are cheating is silly. It's clear the Astros took it to a whole different level.

And I don't care at all. I don't care if they apologize. It's sports. Let's move on and just win some games.
BarryProfit
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I don't think anything is clear outside of the fact that the Astros cheated, what other clubs did is far from certain and there appears to be plenty of smoke to suggest they were doing much of the same.

Regardless, I agree with your last point. Time to just say F it and go win some ball games. The best middle finger the Astros could give is another 100 win season.
sts7049
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F the haters. i want altuve to walk off the yankees again in the world series. run the bases, rip his shirt off, point to boone with two middle fingers, grab his package and celebrate.
Liquid Wrench
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sts7049 said:

F the haters. i want altuve to walk off the yankees again in the world series. run the bases, rip his shirt off, point to boone with two middle fingers, grab his package and celebrate.
ChipFTAC01
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sts7049 said:

F the haters. i want altuve to walk off the yankees again in the world series. run the bases, rip his shirt off, point to boone with two middle fingers, grab his package and celebrate.


In this scenario have the Astros moved back to the National League?
Tom Hagen
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Gamesmanship is not cheating.
lunchbox
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I am hoping they play pissed off all season.

I hope their home run celebration is the next player up pretending to use the TSA security wand on them.

I hope the team allows the fans to bring in trash cans so we can bang them non-stop when the other team is pitching.
trip
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If I am the Astros, I say f- it.

1. Opening day promo is a drum set
2. Change the name of the centerfield area to "the observation deck". Put telescopes out there with cards to indicate pitch's.
3. Or Have everyone bring binoculars and yell the pitch

But that is just me.
Make it a real home field advantage


Ciboag96
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Pure Tine
chimpanzee
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I look at it like I do auto racing. There were (and are) guys that work their asses off to cheat the rules in very innovative ways.

One guy in the late 60's had a two car team with cars that that were identical apart from the number, one was #6, the other was #8, but they would both start with #6 on the door. The real #6 car had every body panel acid dipped and other such shenanigans to take weight off and get it below the minimum. They would weigh the legal eventual #8 car on the scale to pass tech then run it back to the trailer, turn the 6 into an 8 on the doors and weigh it again while the lightweight car sat covered.

Another guy in the same era (may have been the same guy) built a car that was a slightly scaled down replica of the stock body that it was supposed to be based on. Unless you busted out a tape measure, you probably couldn't tell, but with less frontal area, it was more aerodynamic.

In the 80's/90's in the Pro Stock class of NHRA drag racing, there were teams using nitrous oxide ("naws" in Fast and Furious parlance) which was egregiously against the rules, but that came to an end when one team's nitrous bottle exploded in the oil pan of the engine where it was hidden.

ETA - these guys were top teams that were doing everything that they could legally too, but they didn't win every single time, so there's plenty of other advantages lurking around unnoticed.

One could take the discussion into NCAA recruiting for that matter.

Point being, yeah, it's wrong, but not terribly morally so in the world of sport, if you get caught, you do your time. Sucks for the other competitors, but the consequences are not absolutely meaningful. Something akin to a venial sin rather than a mortal one. It's all part of what makes it an interesting experience to watch and follow while it doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme.
agproducer
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I'm ready for the season to start. I'm tired of the sanctimonious bull***** Other teams were doing the same thing. There's a reason Beltran said the Astros sign stealing scheme was way behind others in the league. Again, other teams were doing it.

Now, I'm not saying the cheating was right, but how can MLB just single them out? If MLB truly wants to clean up the game, they'd investigate other teams. They've said they are investigating the Red Sox. The longer it takes, the more I believe the Red Sox are going to get off with just firing Cora.

I don't like the players giving apologies. The ones that have happened so far have seemed canned.

Sign stealing is as old as baseball. The White Sox, Cardinals and others had electronic schemes saying back to the 80s.

The Astros just need to go out and win the whole thing. I hope in the playoffs they take out the A's, Yankees and Dodgers to win the WS. That will tell everyone to go eff themselves.
P.H. Dexippus
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Stealing signals is no worse than stealing bases. It's part of the game. Don't want the batter to know what you're throwing? Use better signals, decoys, pre-planned pitches, concealment.
"[When I was a kid,] I wanted to be a pirate. Thank God no one took me seriously and scheduled me for eye removal and peg leg surgery."- Bill Maher
htxag09
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Eh, I disagree. They broke the rules, but lets just move on.

What does piss me off is everyone else acting holier than thou when you damn know well they were doing it too (I'm looking at you Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers). And the fact that somehow they are going to let this Red Sox ordeal slip into oblivion and the Astros will be the only ones punished.
Milwaukees Best Light
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I have serious concerns about this season. Several of the players are not mentally tough enough to handle being a heel. Looking at you Correa. Springer feeds off positive fan energy, so we will see how he does. Not worried about Bregman or Altuve. Combine being booed and bothered with all the questions all season with an aging pitching rotation, same old bullpen and Dusty Baker and 100 wins looks like 100000.

Not calling for them to suck, but I have concerns.
cajunaggie08
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Players have been looking for an advantage since the sport started. 25 years ago all the top hitters and pitchers were using steroids. If that didnt turn you off on the game then I dont see how a sign stealing scandal should. As they say in NASCAR "if you aint cheating, you aint trying." Yea, Astros got caught and are being made an example of to the rest of the league. I still am a fan of the team and will gladly wear my astros cap any time I am around town or go out of town. Fans of other teams are just mad their teams didnt win as chances are their team was cheating too in some form or another. Are the Astros the "bad guys" now? Sure. I say own it. Embrace it. The fact that you are on Texags means youre a fan of Aggie sports. You know the Ags and their boosters are bending the rules of recruiting and amateurship right? Is it right? no. But thats major college football.

If you want to be a fan of a team that only does things the "right way" and goes out of their way to maintain a squeaky clean image, then stick with the Texans. They may never get in trouble but they sure as hell arent going to win anything important.
Chewy
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#stealitback
Big Cat `93
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I wish they didn't do it, but it's not the end of the world. What is most galling is the whole smarter than thou attitude of the eggheads Luhnow brought in. That kind of attitude usually comes back and bites you in the butt. As seen here.
FarmerJohn
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So Beltran rolls into town and within a month of the season starts has started this scheme with the relay system in place. Either Beltran is the best American spymaster since the dude from Argo, or he saw something at his previous stops. (Texas, Toronto, Yankees). The problem is that in late 2017 the letter from the commissioner explicitly banned this kind of thing. The Astros kept going. We don't know about the others. You can argue anything before that letter wasn't against the rules.

My biggest concern is that we don't really know how good the Astro's offense is. No concerns about Altuve as he hardly used this system at all. I would have some concerns about Bregman, Gurriel, and Springer. I have a lot of questions about Correa. His 2017 stats are looking like real outliers. If this had kept going in some form we don't know about, there could be a real drop off.

At least Marwin Gonzalez's contract isn't the Astro's problem. He used the system the most and his 2017 stats back that up.
Coog97
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agproducer said:

I'm ready for the season to start. I'm tired of the sanctimonious bull***** Other teams were doing the same thing. There's a reason Beltran said the Astros sign stealing scheme was way behind others in the league. Again, other teams were doing it.

Now, I'm not saying the cheating was right, but how can MLB just single them out? If MLB truly wants to clean up the game, they'd investigate other teams. They've said they are investigating the Red Sox. The longer it takes, the more I believe the Red Sox are going to get off with just firing Cora.

I don't like the players giving apologies. The ones that have happened so far have seemed canned.

Sign stealing is as old as baseball. The White Sox, Cardinals and others had electronic schemes saying back to the 80s.

The Astros just need to go out and win the whole thing. I hope in the playoffs they take out the A's, Yankees and Dodgers to win the WS. That will tell everyone to go eff themselves.
I blame the media!
spadilly
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Everything about this is so stupid. When did sports become our beacon/compass for morality and fairness?
"Win at all costs" is drilled into our heads by society from childhood. When it comes to sports, we are taught to cheat until you get caught and then keep cheating until the consequences outweigh the benefits.
I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying it's expected when the "win at all costs" mentality is constantly pounded into our brains.
I'll be honest, I wanted the 2017 World Series more than anything I've ever wanted in sports, especially when it came down to game 7. This year is going to be a very close second. Win the whole thing. Destroy every other team. Bat flips for base hits. Embrace the hate.
redag06
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Chewy said:

#stealitback
They already stole their 2020 hashtag from the Roughnecks.
BQ_90
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got a question, why is this even a big deal? I mean, the Pats have been caught cheating how many times and nobody cares.

so why does MLB fans think their game is pure and innocent when NFL fans don't give a ****
redag06
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Most of the country hates the pats because of their cheating ways. Pats fans don't care, but a lot of other people do.
schmellba99
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Doesn't bother me in the least, outside of the fact that the investigation seems to have stopped with the Astros and other teams will get not even a slap on the wrist. Pays to be a blue blood in sports, and the Astros are not a blue blood.

Stealing signs has been around since the days of Honus Wagner, and will always be around. Hell, they have had cameras on base coaches specifically to try to break their codes for decades now. This is really little more than the Astros having the gall to usurp the Yankees and Red Sox as the power team in the AL, and neither those teams or the MLB wants to stomach that thought...so the remedy is to slap them down and make sure they know their place and role.

I hope they come out mad this year and play like it.
MouthBQ98
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The Astros crime was getting caught, because they are all doing it.
TarponChaser
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FarmerJohn said:

So Beltran rolls into town and within a month of the season starts has started this scheme with the relay system in place. Either Beltran is the best American spymaster since the dude from Argo, or he saw something at his previous stops. (Texas, Toronto, Yankees). The problem is that in late 2017 the letter from the commissioner explicitly banned this kind of thing. The Astros kept going. We don't know about the others. You can argue anything before that letter wasn't against the rules.

My biggest concern is that we don't really know how good the Astro's offense is. No concerns about Altuve as he hardly used this system at all. I would have some concerns about Bregman, Gurriel, and Springer. I have a lot of questions about Correa. His 2017 stats are looking like real outliers. If this had kept going in some form we don't know about, there could be a real drop off.

At least Marwin Gonzalez's contract isn't the Astro's problem. He used the system the most and his 2017 stats back that up.

Correa isn't generally going to be a .300 hitter but, even though he hasn't done it yet, he's a likely 30 HR guy. His issue is staying healthy. When healthy he's an elite defensive SS and will be a .280 BA; .920 OPS; and give you about 30 HR and 90 RBIs. He only hit 4 more homers in 2017 than he did in '19 despite having 160 more plate appearances in 2017.

Bregman had his best offensive season in 2019 after they discarded the scheme in 2018 as being ineffective. He's also an elite defensive guy and will generally be .290BA/ .950 OPS with 30 HRs and 90-100 RBIs.

Springer had a better year in 2019 than he did in 2017 and so did Gurriel.

This whole thing is just a big FU from the East Coast baseball media because the Astros have been beating the Yankees and Red Sox. They just ran into a Nationals buzz-saw that peaked at the right time in the World Series. The sanctimonious BS from all corners is what pisses me off. Talk to guys in the game- EVERY DAMN TEAM DOES THE SAME EFFIN' THING.

But the Yankees aren't getting hit, the Red Sox are getting a slap on the wrist, and nobody is even looking at the Dodgers. The singling out of the Astros is what pisses me off.

I hope the Astros come out with a "F THE WORLD" mentality, play pissed off and abuse opposing pitchers.

While the starting pitching won't be as amazing with Verlander and Cole it will still be really damn good:
1) Verlander
2) Greinke
3) McCullers
4) Peacock
5) Urquidy

Frankly, my biggest concern is Dusty Baker mismanaging the pitching staff.
Panama Red
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AG



Jay95: grow some testicles.
Anonymous Source
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I've been a fan of the Astros since I was a kid. This deal pisses me off, but we're not alone in doing what we did. Rob Manfred kicked an ant hill with this deal and he needs to come down on everyone guilty of it the way he `came down on the Astros.
All that being said, this ain't something that keeps me awake at night. Eff it, time to go win some games.
Gig 'Em
BohunkAg
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BQ_90 said:

got a question, why is this even a big deal? I mean, the Pats have been caught cheating how many times and nobody cares.

so why does MLB fans think their game is pure and innocent when NFL fans don't give a ****
It's because Yankees and Red Sox fans (and Dodgers fans) are literally the biggest hypocrites on the planet. It's OK if their teams do it, but if little ol' Houston does it, then stop the effing presses.

Own it, move on and enjoy all of your 2017 World Champion gear!
98Ag99Grad
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I don't like it. A leader on the team should have taken a stand and said we're not doing this. You can talk about stealing signs being a part of the game and I get that but until now I haven't ever heard of anyone going to these extremes to do it. Beating on a fking trash can? Seriously? And these prepared statements (not apologies) are lame. Just say what you feel and move on. Ready for the season to finally start as well.
PeekingDuck
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My thoughts are that I hope they find new and better ways to cheat so they can win the whole damn thing again.
mm98
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As a lifelong catcher, none of this surprises me.

When I was a freshman in high school I learned that base coaches will try to signal your signs if you drop your signs too low in your stance. That was from the opposing ADULT base coaches, for Pete's sake. The entire opposing dugout would try to steal signs from my own coach if he wanted to call the pitches in a critical situation. We changed our assistant coach signs each game to keep them from getting picked up. If the umpire liked you he would even tell you if he thought the other team had picked up your signs, because he knows everyone is trying.

By the time I was a senior I had 3 different pitchers on 3 different set of catcher's signals anytime a runner got on 2nd base...the indicator system, the easy third sign system, and one who was kind of blind had to use a combo of finger and glove positioning signs.

None of this involved cameras but that was 25+ years ago in my instance. I'm 100% convinced the Astros weren't the only team to figure this out.

Does that make them innocent IMO? Not really. But it got about 24 hours of disappointment from me and I got over it quick.

Just go win some games.
BohunkAg
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See stuff like this makes me want to embrace the heel role the Astros have taken on....such losers

schmellba99
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MouthBQ98 said:

The Astros crime was getting caught, because they are all doing it.
It was having a btch like Fiers rat on them because his vageen got sandy he didn't get a Cole type of offer. So F him.
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