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Ppl having informals & I haven't heard a thing....besides my confirmation email

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Bc they are getting to ram you hard in da butt......dry

Had my informal yesterday:

-Guy basically threw my jubally info in the trash. Said they don't have all the information and only use comps that serve them (irony alert!).
-I bought my house in June 2013 for $317K. According to HCAD, if I didn't do anything to my house, it would be worth $353K 6 mo later.
-Somehow they knew we made some improvements but were wrong on some of them. I assume they just looked in the windows? Either way, he tried to explain how if I spend $20K in improvements, the market value could be much higher. Apparently he meant much, much higher.
-In the end he offered $420K which was down from the original value of $425. I laughed and that was it.

I would suggest to everyone to skip the informal. Its a waste of time but get familiar with the information they are using against you which can be found on their website.





[This message has been edited by Mikeyshooter (edited 5/21/2014 6:47a).]

Who did your informal?

If you purchased it for $317k, then according to Mr. Ram you in da butt, all you have to do is prove purchase price.

Or so he told me?

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If you purchased it for $317k, then according to Mr. Ram you in da butt, all you have to do is prove purchase price.

Or so he told me?

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Yes

The informal appraisers are limited to only a 100k reduction. They also do not like to be on the highest reduction of value list either so 75% of the appraisers will generally only reduce a property up to 15k. Good luck finishing the other 25%. They are usually out in the field or running the coordinators room.

Good luck in the ARB.

I haven't heard anything back after protesting a month ago. Did everyone receive a notice in the mail? Is it ok to just skip the informal and go straight to ARB?

Can they raise more than 10% next hear if I have a homestead exemption and make significant improvements?

Can they raise more than 10% next hear if I have a homestead exemption and make significant improvements?

Mikeyshooter,

Sounds like we had the same guy or these guys are like robots and say the same ****. I believe my guys name was Michael.

you mean Bob?

I had some Asian guy, I think his name was Chan or Han. He asked me to explain why I thought my house was worth less than the appraised value and kept interrupting with "Are you finished?" "Is that all?" When I was actually finished, he went straight into his little computer software and started spouting out information. I'll admit, I wasn't as prepared as I should have been but he wasn't going to come down that much.

I need to really study their documentation more and find the holes.

Also, is it typical to use an adjustment from the sale price? They basically said my house was worth 10% more after 6 mo without me doing anything.

Mike, shot you a PM. Email me when you get a chance.

quote:

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Had my informal yesterday:

-Guy basically threw my jubally info in the trash. Said they don't have all the information and only use comps that serve them (irony alert!).
-I bought my house in June 2013 for $317K. According to HCAD, if I didn't do anything to my house, it would be worth $353K 6 mo later.
-Somehow they knew we made some improvements but were wrong on some of them. I assume they just looked in the windows? Either way, he tried to explain how if I spend $20K in improvements, the market value could be much higher. Apparently he meant much, much higher.
-In the end he offered $420K which was down from the original value of $425. I laughed and that was it.

I would suggest to everyone to skip the informal. Its a waste of time but get familiar with the information they are using against you which can be found on their website.

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I typically try to stay out of these threads, but I am passionate about helping, and if this improves my means to help, then I guess I am going to chime in.

So in the past, we've always recommended people skip their isettle because it, well, just sucks. We've told people to go to their informal hearing just because it's an opportunity to reduce your value, and the odds indicate it's probably worth it to at least go. This year though, it is hard to recommend going. By the same token, it does give you a chance to practice, and hear their counter arguments, so you can be a bit more informed when going to your formal hearing.

As far as the assertion that we don't have all the data, that couldn't be more incorrect. We have all of the data from their system (values, factors, and attributes). The one thing we aren't doing this year that they are placing a strict requirement on is this so called "Time Adjustment". It only applies to sales comps, not the Uniform and Equal argument (equity). For each month from the sale date until the end of December, they are applying a 1-2% increase in the sales price PER MONTH. It varies by neighborhood, thus the 1-2% range I've given. And you're dang right we only use comps that help you reduce your value.

I started to include this Time Adjustment into the Sales Analysis a little while back when I received word from a few other sources that indicate HCAD is holding on to these time adjustments at the informal hearings, but not quite so much at the Formal hearing. While the ARB is biased, from what we can tell, they just don't agree with the time adjustment. So, I killed that idea to include it, since all it does is hurt your value (the adjustment can only go up this year in this hot market". I considered adding another Sales Analysis report into the evidence package and giving instructions to users to only present it at the ARB if the ARB is requiring it.

Here is how I believe we should all argue this time adjustment this year.

1.) If I were a real-estate appraiser and a bank hired me to appraise a home, and I were to locate recent sales, and apply a 1-2% increase in value each month, the bank would laugh at me, and I would never be hired again.

2.) If values are increasing 1-2% per month, they we are all in the wrong business. We should be purchasing homes, and selling them 12 months later for a 12-24% gain.

3.) Go to http://www.har.com/neighborhoods/ and locate your neighborhood. There will be a bar graph on the right hand side that indicates the market trends over the past several years. If the rate of increase year to year does not look to be 12-24% (1-2% x 12 months), then take this with you and present it to combat their assertion of the time adjustments.

4.) Demand that they prove the stats to back up the time adjustment. How did they come up with it? Make them show you. If they can't show you, it is an arbitrary number. Put them on the defensive.

5.) Are they going to require a negative time adjustment in a down market and throw out your evidence if you don't have it reflected? Of course not. That would hurt their values.

All of that said, I have been trying to figure out if they were also going to apply a time adjustment to a subject property that was purchased in 2013. Consistently, year after year, they'll accept your purchase price for that very first year. I had a feeling they were going to pull this stunt with subject properties that had been purchased. Total crap.

Also, keep in mind that appraisers at the informal levels cannot adjust value based on Uniform and Equal. The comptroller grades appraisal districts based on how many changes to values are made at this level. The more changes informally, the worse the grade. There's no real incentive for them to reduce values here. Once it goes formal, the decision lies with the ARB and thus they aren't graded based on reductions there.

Additionally, if you purchased this year, and the Uniform and Equal value is lower than your purchase price, then you need to be arguing based on "Value Unequal to other similar properties". Take the market argument out of the equation and hold them to this standard. Hold them to the law. It won't always work, but the more informed you are, the better your chances.


http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TX/htm/TX.41.htm

Protest of Determination of Value or Inequality of Appraisal (b) A protest on the ground of unequal appraisal of property shall be determined
in favor of the protesting party unless the appraisal district establishes that: (3) the appraised value of the property is equal to or less than the
median appraised value of a reasonable number of comparable properties appropriately adjusted.

If anyone here, regardless of if you are a Jubally client or not needs more info on the process, let me know. If you are a client of Jubally, and don't win informally, contact me and let us work with you to form a counter argument based on the HCAD argument they presented informally. They do lie and deceive, and as much info as we give in the evidence packages, we can't realistically cover it all, which is why I always want to hear your experiences at the informal level. And please, study our info. Again, I know it is a lot, but it is imperative that you be informed.

It's so inconsistent. Had 2 people last week who won their informal with a reduction of 90k and 45k. Then they offer you a 5k reduction? Sickening.

Email me with anything you need. support at jubally dot com

[This message has been edited by Cru (edited 5/21/2014 10:20a).]

Reading that post makes me miss meeting with the appraisers. On the residential side especially the informal appraiser is a noob and he is afraid to cut values. All their stuff gets reviewed and if they cut, they just draw unwanted attention to themselves. It's easier for them to say no change and push you to the ARB and let the ARB take the heat for cutting.

The burden of proof is on them. Like Cru said, make them back it up. That's one reason why litigation works but granted for a house at $400K it's not worth it.

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Ppl having informals & I haven't heard a thing....besides my confirmation email

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Same here

Great info Cru. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by BassAg (edited 5/21/2014 10:11a).]

BTW, here are the HCAD Time Adjustments for this year based on neighborhood.

While I am at it. If they say your home was remodeled, make them defend that, too.

Here is what they consider for each level of remodel (partial, extensive, total).

Cru:

What if you are capped with homestead exemption and add on. Does cap still apply to existing improvements (and not to addition)...or does the cap go away altogether? I've heard both answers.

Cap still applies but they do add the value of the new improvements to it.

So, if I had a home that was 100,000 in 2013 for both appraised and market, and they increased the market value by 15k, that puts the market value at 115,000, and my appraised value (assuming I had a homestead) at 110,000. If I also added an extra feature (spa, pool, or additional improvement) then they will value that addition, and add it to the values. So, if I wanted a small pool for my home (mansion in this situation), and HCAD valued that pool at 25k, then my appraised value will be 135k, and my market will be 140k.

How they do this with remodels is a different ball game. Not many clear answers when dealing with that.

Always protest, even if there is a huge spread between your market and appraised. The quicker you can equalize the two, the quicker you can reduce your tax burden. Additionally, you don't want to shoot yourself in those years that they don't raise your market value and your appraised value goes up 10% automatically. Wouldn't it have been nice to have protested the previous year and had that market value reduced. As long as the market value is greater than the appraised value, your appraised value will go up. Up to 10%, of course.

[This message has been edited by Cru (edited 5/21/2014 10:57a).]

Cru, do you recommend going to informal or just skipping and going straight to review?

Can HCAD use the listing details on a recently sold house as their evidence? sq ft, photos of property condition, etc?

Thanks, Cru...really appreciate it.

I think that's on a case by case basis. Depends on the amount of reduction you think you should get, and how much your time is worth.

I think if you go into it open minded, and not expecting to win, it can be worthwhile. People don't really know how jacked up the system is as far as the process and what the hearings can do for you, etc. Like I said, in the past, go. This year, most just won't win there. But again, it's practice for you, and you get to hear how they are going to counter, which can prove invaluable at your formal hearing. Just don't get beat up over it and get discouraged if you don't win. It's not your evidence, it's the appraiser (most of the time).

They sure do like to make it inconvenient though, huh?

Yea. I like the 290 construction warning on HCAD.

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Can HCAD use the listing details on a recently sold house as their evidence? sq ft, photos of property condition, etc?

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Yes and no. They will use the sale price of a home, but they rely on the HCAD data as far as condition, sqft, etc. That said, and it sucks, but they will look to see if a home has been recently remodeled based on the description a realtor gives to the listing. Of course, this is faulty because realtors want to make the home look as best it can in order to command a higher price. They will say this home has been extensively remodeled, or just remodeled, and HCAD will use the realtors description to assign the remodel level to that home in the HCAD records.

Faulty! Fact of the matter is, your home is likely not in sell ready condition, so even recent sales shouldn't be indicative of the value of your home, it should always be less than recent sale prices, which could be greater than the value HCAD assigns to your home. That's why you don't fight based on sales unless recent sales indicate your value should be lower than what HCAD's market value shows you as.

Confusing anyone yet or helping?

the remodeling adjustments are a joke. They leave is so open and ambiguous that arguing the standards appears to be impossible.

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They will use the sale price of a home, but they rely on the HCAD data as far as condition, sqft, etc.

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My situation:
1. 1958-2013 HCAD: 2000 sqft
2. 2013 HAR listing: 2200 sqft / Appraisal
3. 2014 HCAD: 2200 sqft

btw...I never saw this appraisal that lists 2200 sqft. But I did my own measurements using a laser and MagicPlan and it's actually closer to 2400 sqft.

careful...according to the new appraisal bylaws, they can also use TexAgs as a source.

Venkman, what do your sales documents say about the size of your home?

I don't see anything on the title committment or deed. Where would it be located?

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the remodeling adjustments are a joke. They leave is so open and ambiguous that arguing the standards appears to be impossible.

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Exactly like they like it.

Survey?

I'm not a realtor, so I won't know for sure. Diggity?

Thing is, occasionally they will go around and re-assess properties. They'll measure again and so forth. Could be coincidental, but I kinda doubt it.

You just have to prove your home is smaller than they say it is if you want them to change the size. Be forewarned though, they won't change your value based on their incorrect size. You'll still have to protest.

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You just have to prove your home is smaller than they say it is if you want them to change the size.

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Well I can't do that since it's actually larger than what they have listed. But I thought you said earlier the burden of proof is on them. And I'm just wondering if the MLS listing is enough proof for them to change it from what it was for 50 years. Can I ask them for the appraisal that determined this size (considering I haven't seen it myself)? I found my own appraisal doc and it's closer to 2400 sqft so I know they didn't use that.

[This message has been edited by Dr. Venkman (edited 5/21/2014 1:00p).]

Regarding values it is on them. Facts on your home is on you, to an extent.

Yes, that is actually how I would approach it.

But don't lie to them and tell them it is smaller than it is, just bring into question the size they have you at, and how they came up with it considering what it was pre-purchase.