Not shocking to anyone who has been paying attention.

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

So…you should be locked up before you are proven guilty of any crime for atleast 6 months before you go to trial? If you are found not guilty and denied bail should the state be responsible for the damages to your career and earnings?

---

Last I checked, we had 28 people arrested for capital murder who were out on bail and walking around the metroplex. I'm quite sure you are aware that you can sue the state for false arrest etc.

2/3 of dallas voters want this, per the results of every single county election

We are in serious need of bail reform in this country, but there are definitely crimes that should lead to being held without bond.

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Arrested, charged but indeed innocent until …..

False arrest sure but I'm not alleging the arrest are false or bad arrest but it still doesn't mean they are guilty

Do you propose no bail for capital murder suspects or only bail the wealthy can afford?

---

Capital murder = no bail and should be mandatory death penalty if convicted

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Right but those lines have to be redrawn carefully because historically the poor and otherwise disenfranchised have been the ones who don't get bail. Not getting bail also prevents you from vigorously participating in your defense. Short of unaltered clear video of murder I have a hard time denying bail otherwise because of the failure rates of eye witnesses and confessions. Even with videos we have a problem with deep fakes given that police of prosecutorial misconduct is a factor in over 75% of wrongful convictions. I'd rather 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be locked up

---

Genuine question, have there been any deep fake videos leading to a murder convition?

Define common sense

Not that I am aware of but most other types of evidence have been fabricated at some point so it's reasonable to believe it will eventually happen on both the prosecution and defense side

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Define common sense

---

People who are clearly threats to the general public, receive no bond. Misdemeanor arrestees who have no record are released on own recognizance. DWI arrest or Class C assault shouldn't cost you your job (most employers are lenient in this area). If you are arrested for sexually assaulting 30 children, you should not be released on bond. Serial offenders should not be released. Bond exists to ensure that the arrested show up for court, but it can & should also be used to protect society.

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Arrested, charged but indeed innocent until …..

False arrest sure but I'm not alleging the arrest are false or bad arrest but it still doesn't mean they are guilty

Do you propose no bail for capital murder suspects or only bail the wealthy can afford?

---

Capital murder = no bail and should be mandatory death penalty if convicted

---

That assumes Texas never wrongfully convicts people. Texas literally leads the country in wrongful convictions with 49 of those being for murder. Dallas county is particularly bad about wrongful convictions as well.

---

Yep, sometimes the eye-witnesses get it wrong, other times you have cop killers on video doing the murder, and the DA decides they're too stupid to be put to death. Or you have a guy who murders 18 grandmas and the DA decides he "is not a threat to other prisoners" so he does not receive the death penalty.

Bocephus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Arrested, charged but indeed innocent until …..

False arrest sure but I'm not alleging the arrest are false or bad arrest but it still doesn't mean they are guilty

Do you propose no bail for capital murder suspects or only bail the wealthy can afford?

---

Capital murder = no bail and should be mandatory death penalty if convicted

---

That assumes Texas never wrongfully convicts people. Texas literally leads the country in wrongful convictions with 49 of those being for murder. Dallas county is particularly bad about wrongful convictions as well.

---

Yep, sometimes the eye-witnesses get it wrong, other times you have cop killers on video doing the murder, and the DA decides they're too stupid to be put to death. Or you have a guy who murders 18 grandmas and the DA decides he "is not a threat to other prisoners" so he does not receive the death penalty.

---

So all the more reason that a capital murder conviction shouldn't be an automatic death penalty

Bocephus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Arrested, charged but indeed innocent until …..

False arrest sure but I'm not alleging the arrest are false or bad arrest but it still doesn't mean they are guilty

Do you propose no bail for capital murder suspects or only bail the wealthy can afford?

---

Capital murder = no bail and should be mandatory death penalty if convicted

---

That assumes Texas never wrongfully convicts people. Texas literally leads the country in wrongful convictions with 49 of those being for murder. Dallas county is particularly bad about wrongful convictions as well.

---

Yep, sometimes the eye-witnesses get it wrong, other times you have cop killers on video doing the murder, and the DA decides they're too stupid to be put to death. Or you have a guy who murders 18 grandmas and the DA decides he "is not a threat to other prisoners" so he does not receive the death penalty.

---

So all the more reason that a capital murder conviction shouldn't be an automatic death penalty

---

Why? You get something like 5 appeals with the death penalty. Juan Lizcano got 6 or 7. I was at two of the appeals.

---

Because we might accidentally put to death an innocent person.

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Arrested, charged but indeed innocent until …..

False arrest sure but I'm not alleging the arrest are false or bad arrest but it still doesn't mean they are guilty

Do you propose no bail for capital murder suspects or only bail the wealthy can afford?

---

Capital murder = no bail and should be mandatory death penalty if convicted

---

That assumes Texas never wrongfully convicts people. Texas literally leads the country in wrongful convictions with 49 of those being for murder. Dallas county is particularly bad about wrongful convictions as well.

---

Yep, sometimes the eye-witnesses get it wrong, other times you have cop killers on video doing the murder, and the DA decides they're too stupid to be put to death. Or you have a guy who murders 18 grandmas and the DA decides he "is not a threat to other prisoners" so he does not receive the death penalty.

---

So all the more reason that a capital murder conviction shouldn't be an automatic death penalty

---

Why? You get something like 5 appeals with the death penalty. Juan Lizcano got 6 or 7. I was at two of the appeals.

---

Because we might accidentally put to death an innocent person.

---

If you can't prove it after 5 appeals…

Spend some time with this report and take a look at the similar projects around the country. Bond is not meant to protect the public and we have the ability to GPS track people, monetary bond isn't really even necessary

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/NRE%20Annual%20Report%202021.pdf

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Arrested, charged but indeed innocent until …..

False arrest sure but I'm not alleging the arrest are false or bad arrest but it still doesn't mean they are guilty

Do you propose no bail for capital murder suspects or only bail the wealthy can afford?

---

Capital murder = no bail and should be mandatory death penalty if convicted

---

That assumes Texas never wrongfully convicts people. Texas literally leads the country in wrongful convictions with 49 of those being for murder. Dallas county is particularly bad about wrongful convictions as well.

---

Yep, sometimes the eye-witnesses get it wrong, other times you have cop killers on video doing the murder, and the DA decides they're too stupid to be put to death. Or you have a guy who murders 18 grandmas and the DA decides he "is not a threat to other prisoners" so he does not receive the death penalty.

---

So all the more reason that a capital murder conviction shouldn't be an automatic death penalty

---

Why? You get something like 5 appeals with the death penalty. Juan Lizcano got 6 or 7. I was at two of the appeals.

---

Because we might accidentally put to death an innocent person.

---

If you can't prove it after 5 appeals…

---

If you can't prove it after 5 appeals tough **** . We are going to murder you anyways. That's certainly a stance to take.

---

You expect there to be a perfect system. I accept the reality that there is no perfect system.

Expecting the government to implement anything like taking someone's life or freedom in a fair and efficient manner is setting yourself up for failure.

I accept an imperfect system where some criminals run but in todays world you can't hide long. I also accept that they committ additional crimes on bail because at that point they are innocent and have the right to participate in their own defense and to continue to make money to afford quality representation

But if this thread proves anything it's that we are divided on the issue so expecting the bail issue to be a winner/loser issue on the ballot is probably tough

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Expecting the government to implement anything like taking someone's life or freedom in a fair and efficient manner is setting yourself up for failure.

I accept an imperfect system where some criminals run but in todays world you can't hide long. I also accept that they committ additional crimes on bail because at that point they are innocent and have the right to participate in their own defense and to continue to make money to afford quality representation

But if this thread proves anything it's that we are divided on the issue so expecting the bail issue to be a winner/loser issue on the ballot is probably tough

---

I just want common sense when it comes to bail. I just watched a police officer get arrested for aggravated assault without a complainant bc he's a police officer. It is what it is.

What common sense do we use to who identify innocent people "who are clearly threats to the general public"?

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

What common sense do we use to who identify innocent people "who are clearly threats to the general public"?

---

When you are arrested for a violent felony and you have previous convictions for a violent felony, you receive a very high bail. When you're arrested for a misdemeanor (especially first time) you receive a very low bail. Common sense used to be common. Just like it USED TO BE that people convicted of violent felonies went to jail instead of getting probation.

Unfortunately police officers are paying the price for years of lining up to protect their few bad apples. Crime is getting much worse so eventually police will be heroes again but not anytime soon.

I can buy that, a previous violent felony is a good way to identify those who should have high bail

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Unfortunately police officers are paying the price for years of lining up to protect their few bad apples. Crime is getting much worse so eventually police will be heroes again but not anytime soon.

---

What makes you say crime is getting much worse? I'm not sure the stats support that.

double aught said:

---

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Unfortunately police officers are paying the price for years of lining up to protect their few bad apples. Crime is getting much worse so eventually police will be heroes again but not anytime soon.

---

What makes you say crime is getting much worse? I'm not sure the stats support that.

---

You touched on a really important point. It's really hard to say which way crime is going right now because the FBI UCR was revamped and only about half of departments are reporting stats for 2021.

Based on what's being reported, a lot of violent crimes are down but homicides are up. (At least I think that what I remembered reading)

Keeper of The Spirits said:

---

Unfortunately police officers are paying the price for years of lining up to protect their few bad apples. Crime is getting much worse so eventually police will be heroes again but not anytime soon.

---

There is no justification for violating rights.