• Museum Station will go at street level next door to the Perot Museum of Nature and Science
• Metro Center Station The largest subway station will go in below the West Transit Center near West End Station. It will be the only station serving all rail lines.
• Commerce Station The rail stop will sit below Commerce Street outside of the new Discovery District at AT&T's headquarters.
• CBD East Station The underground station planned for Pearl Expressway between Main and Elm would serve the new East Quarter district and other points on the eastern edge of downtown.
• Live Oak Station A new station would be constructed at Live Oak Street and Good Latimer, between the Latino Cultural Center and Live Oak Lofts. It would replace the Deep Ellum Station, which is being removed. (Much of the existing Deep Ellum Station will be salvaged and relocated to the Live Oak Station.)

OKC~Ag said:

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One time I tried to use DART rail to get DFW few days ago...their line to DFW got shut down after 8pm for some reason and shuttle people form Bachman station to DFW. It took an hour plus what should have been 20 minutes...clowns.

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Goose said:

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Keeping it at grade near the AAC seems like it would F up traffic during already really F'ed up traffic on event nights.

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Goose said:

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Anything after Victory (while headed towards DT) is already too late. Heck, if they can't go below grade there, then how about elevate it through Victory Park. (My gut says they can't do that because they don't have the necessary distance to get it down below grade before getting to Metro Center Station.)

Edit: on a semi-related note, I think it's a real shame they couldn't have incorporated that Victory Station more closely to the AAC. Walking a couple of blocks from the station to the arena as it is certainly isn't a big deal, and I don't think it really discourages ridership. But an elevated section there dropping people off right at the front door (or close to it) would have been a sweet setup.)

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• green line from Victory went down toward Union Station like TRE does
• and then turned east and went underground along Commerce the entire width of downtown

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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OKC~Ag said:

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One time I tried to use DART rail to get DFW few days ago...their line to DFW got shut down after 8pm for some reason and shuttle people form Bachman station to DFW. It took an hour plus what should have been 20 minutes...clowns.

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Hmmm.... I used it a lot to go to DFW back in 2014-2018 but then I switched and started flying SW out of Love.

I liked it when I used it to DFW. Don't think I ever flew back that late though so I never had a time when it was not running.

With rush hour either way (in the morning to catch a flight, or evening upon return) the drive option took me just as long.

Drive option:

drive - 45 minutes generally using express lanes
park - 5 minutes
shuttle to terminal - 15-20 minutes

The DART option was

drive to DART station at WR - 5 minutes
train to Terminal A - 1 hour to 1:15 depending (blue to downtown and switch to orange)


So just about the same on time - but my stress level was 90% less.
And the cost was much less: $5 round trip on DART vs. $6-$10 in express tolls plus $15/day remote parking.

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MGS said:

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Before they decide to spend billions of dollars on this, why don't they wait a year and see if it's still needed in the post-covid era?

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AW 1880 said:

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Tommy, am I your boss?

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AW 1880 said:

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Tommy, am I your boss?

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Goose said:

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MGS said:

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Before they decide to spend billions of dollars on this, why don't they wait a year and see if it's still needed in the post-covid era?

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I'm not even sure it was needed pre-covid and/or if covid had never happened. Tenants traditionally occupying CBD buildings have been migrating north for decades, and advancements in technology to enable people in the workforce to come together virtually instead of in person would have provided better value than the cost for office space in due time anyways. Mass transit in lower density populations is a pipe dream to begin with. But if the increase in work-from-home percentage is combined with the rising popularity of Uber type services, the oncoming promise of ride-share/car-share platforms like Turo or Zipcar, and the incorporation of autonomous vehicles into either or both, then the need to spend a couple billion dollars to get some personal vehicles off the surface streets and alleviate some parking requirements in a CBD on the decline is not a good value at all.

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Kellso said:

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Goose said:

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MGS said:

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Before they decide to spend billions of dollars on this, why don't they wait a year and see if it's still needed in the post-covid era?

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I'm not even sure it was needed pre-covid and/or if covid had never happened. Tenants traditionally occupying CBD buildings have been migrating north for decades, and advancements in technology to enable people in the workforce to come together virtually instead of in person would have provided better value than the cost for office space in due time anyways. Mass transit in lower density populations is a pipe dream to begin with. But if the increase in work-from-home percentage is combined with the rising popularity of Uber type services, the oncoming promise of ride-share/car-share platforms like Turo or Zipcar, and the incorporation of autonomous vehicles into either or both, then the need to spend a couple billion dollars to get some personal vehicles off the surface streets and alleviate some parking requirements in a CBD on the decline is not a good value at all.

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I've always thought that this line of thinking was a short sighted way of looking at public transportation.

Anything that gives residents a choice (rather than a car) and gets cars off the streets is a net positive in the long run.

One of the reasons a lot of people hate Houston is that their public transportation options are garbage....which means you have to drive a car everywhere you go. This factors into all the traffic congestion and horrible pollution that Houston is known for.

If I am a business owner, and most of my employees are low income.....I don't want to make it harder for them to get to work. Having to drive to work each day is ultimately a tax.

Its a gas tax, a wear and tear on your car tax, and a life-style tax.

If Dallas is going to want to compete for Global business you have a way that people can get from the Airports to your downtown without having to get in a car.
You can now do that from DFW, but its a bit harder from Love Field.

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Quote:

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If Dallas is going to want to compete for Global business you have a way that people can get from the Airports to your downtown without having to get in a car.
You can now do that from DFW, but its a bit harder from Love Field.

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TriAg2010 said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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DallasAggie89 said:

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Dart is the biggest boondoggle in DFW history.

Shut it down.

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Based on what?

It's the longest light rail system in the US.
It has the 5th highest ridership nationwide out of 40 systems and the ones with more are either much more urban or much bigger population or both.
Budget wise pre COVID anyway they were generally within budget. apparently they can stem this sharp revenue hit with federal money from the stimulus package.

Just curious.

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"Within budget" is pretty misleading given that DART budgets an operating loss every year. In 2019, DART had a net operating loss of $742 million. EBITDA would be closer to a $487 million annual loss. That's all pre-COVID and consistent with every year prior. So congratulations DART, you lost the amount of money you expected to lose.

There's a gap approaching three-quarters of a billion dollars each year between the service DART provides and what the public values. We plug that gap with sales tax revenue because, well, big cities are supposed to have a transit system. It's the inertia of conventional wisdom from 40 years ago.

I think it's plain DART has not achieved the stated goals when it was chartered. We're no less sprawled, we're no less congested, and freeways have remained the dominant form of transportation. I think DART provides a public good for serving transportation for some seniors, handicapped, and low-income people, but you could tailor focused solutions to those needs that don't cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

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Timewise with all three it is comparable to a cab especially if there is any traffic. And I do it all the time without ever looking at a train schedule beforehand. Like I said it's usually no more than a 5 minute wait and often a train is just there or arriving.

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Quote:

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I have a client that works at the Dallas VA Hospital in Oak Cliff, and he lives in Plano. His commute is about 10 minutes to the Parker Road Station, and then he takes the train all the way to the front door of his employment.

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Quote:

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If you work in Central Houston and want to live in the burbs then you have to drive a car.....and this is why Houston sucks.

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Goose said:

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Quote:

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I have a client that works at the Dallas VA Hospital in Oak Cliff, and he lives in Plano. His commute is about 10 minutes to the Parker Road Station, and then he takes the train all the way to the front door of his employment.

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Out of curiosity I looked this up on the DART website. From the Parker Road Station to the VA Medical Station, it's 49 minutes on the Red Line (19 stops) to Cedars Station (5 min layover), then onto the Blue Line for another 14 minutes (5 stops). That's 72 minutes, not including his 10 minutes from the house to the station...one way.

No thanks.

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Log said:

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I used to rider the Red/Orange line from Parker Road to Akard pre-COVID. The one thing (at the time) I wished DART would do, is offer an Express line at certain times of the day that would only stop once or twice on the way to downtown. That being said, I haven't been to the office in a year, and they are making noise about my group going full-time remote, other than a few monthly meetings. Fingers crossed.

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